originally posted by Thermopylae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imajin
Would it be Al-Andalus if there are no Vandals? I thought that's where the name Andalus came from, since Southern Spain had been a part of the Vandal Kingdom for so long.
True. I'm going to have to come up with another name. But for now, I thinkt he meaning of al-Andalus is understood.
Hmm, in fact is a theory popularly accepted the vandal origin but in fact lately it seems that is a theory disregarded now by the etimologists, there are two theories that seems now with more acceptance between the etimologists than the popularly accepted of the vandals.
This link is in spanish and shows the three theories and the fact that it seems better prefered now the other two than the popular vandal origin
http://www.webislam.com/numeros/2000/00_7/Articulos_007/Nombre_andalus.htm
also we have the wikipedia that effectively also mentions this fact that now it seems that the vandal theory is not more accepted
"The
etymology of the word
al-Āndalus is uncertain. The word is popularly thought to be derived from the
Vandals, the
Germanic tribe who settled in southern Iberia and Northern Africa. However, scholars are by no means in agreement. The notion of it originating with the
Vandals, who supposedly devastated
southern Spain so severely in a mere twenty-two years of tenure (
407-
429) as to leave their name forever imprinted on it, gained in popularity over time and survives - but it is a theory put forth without much basis, bolstered perhaps by
homophony. Three possible etymologies have been advanced in recent times. The first, the Vandal link, is largely disregarded now, and the question of the origin of the
Arabic name, given to the entire peninsula, is still open to debate.
[
edit]
https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/
Vandalícia
Reinhart Dozy (
1820-
1883),
Dutch author of the famous
History of the Muslims of Spain (4 vols., Turner, Madrid, 1984), advanced the theory according to which the name of
al-Āndalus is an Arabic rendition of
Vandalicia or
Vandalucía, on the assumption that the
Roman province of
Hispania Baetica (southern Spain) could have acquired and retained this name-association, not in Iberia itself, but among the Arabs of the
Maghreb. The possible reason may be the existence of a
Vandal kingdom in southern Spain before its conquest by the
visigoths radicated in
Toledo. Escaping from them, the vandals invaded North Africa and established a new kingdom in
Carthage.
Miguel de Cervantes, in his
Don Quixote, attests the use of
Vandalia in the XVII century as a cultivated synonym of Andalusia: a would-be knight errant searching for a poetic name for his dame, one Casilda from Andalusia, chooses
Casildea de Vandalia DQ, II, 14.
[
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https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/
Atlántida
The Spanish
philologist Joaquín Vallvé Bermejo, in his
The Territorial Divisions of Muslim Spain (CSIC, Madrid, 1986), is of the opinion that Al-Andalus, as in Jazirat al-Andalus, translates pure and simply as "
Atlantis" or "island of the Atlantic":
Arabic texts offering the first mentions of the island of al-Andalus and the sea of al-Andalus become extraordinarily clear if we substitute this expressions with "Atlántida" or "Atlantic". The same can be said with reference to Hercules and the Amazons whose island, according to Arabic commentaries of these Greek and Latin legends, was located in jauf al-Andalus — that is, to the north or interior of the Atlantic Ocean. [
edit]
https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/
Landahlauts
An etymology was advanced recently by H. Halm in "Al-Andalus und Gothica Sors", in
Welt des Orients, vol. 66, 1989, pp 252-263, and drawn upon by Marianne Barrucand/Achim Bednorz in
Arquitectura Islámica en Andalucía, Köln, Taschen, 1992, pp 12-13. Halm dismisses any links with the Vandals, an association he finds without foundation, and offers instead an interesting explanation. According to him the name "Al-Andalus" is simply an Arabic rendition of the
Visigothic name given to the Roman province of Baetica. The Visigoths, following the custom of their Germanic predecessors, parcelled out the conquered territories by drawing lots, and the allotments to anyone, with their corresponding land, was called "Sortes Gothicae". Contemporary texts, still written in Latin, refer to the
Gothic kingdom as a whole as "Gothica sors" (singular). It is reasonable to suppose then that the corresponding
Gothic designation "Landahlauts" (allotted, inherited, drawn land), in its
phonetic form — "landalos" — became easily and spontaneously, to Arabic ears, "Al-Andalus".
- Lôt (Gothic hlauts): allotment, inheritance; cf. Old High German hlôz, modern German Los, which passed into French as lot and Castilian as lote; whence "lottery," "loterie," "lotería," etc."
Although in fact because the visigoths were defeated in TTL in 468 we are in the same problem, althoug is possible that name Al-andalus could be used in TTL if we agree with the second theory (although it seems that the third theory is the most accepted now -the visigoth origin).
)