The Colossus Of The New World - a worldbuilding project

[Višeslav]

Ok so, regarding the flags of the Gran Colombia region, they would look fairly similar to OTL. Now, with Perú and Bolivia, iirc we had them become one upon independence instead of uniting later on. This would mean that the flag wouldn't necessarily look like OTL flags. The first national flag of Peru was created by Argentinian libertador José de San Martín, but he couldn't be part of the liberation given how Argentina doesn't exist. So I would try to just make up a flag using Inca symbology (as this Gran Perú would take a lot of inspiration from the Incas).

I must have forgotten about the plan for Peru-Bolivia. I thought it formed like IOTL, but this sounds good as well. In that case, Inti will feature on it for sure, it might want to avoid the rainbow flag because its a little messy and might be a little too funny to folks from OTL to see a country with the gay flag. It also doesn't really fit with western vexillological practices at the time and is likely a modern invention anyway. I think that the flag will be a tricolor or some other modern European division of field with Inti placed on it. The only other thing that might be expected is that red will be present, because revolutionaries love that blood symbolism on their flags. IMO, the flag I had up there but with Inti on it could work just as well as any other flag, but if you can think of anything else that is particularly fitting. Maybe blue might be included if Miller's flag still exists, but I don't know about that.

Also, was the pre-Bolivarian blue and white flag of Ecuador based on anything Argentine? It looks like it was, but I can't find any sources indicating that.

Also remember that Bolivia probably isn't named like that. Alternatively, you could have the Peruvian flag take some inspiration from the Colombian flag as Bolivar would be the main man behind Peruvian independence, but not too much as Peru would become a rival to Colombia.
Regarding the Platinean countries, I haven't actually thought about flags so far, but I will probably will have to make some flags up as there was no regional symbolism that I know of in La Plata.

Yes, in terms of the naming, I think that the whole country would initially be called Peru (retroactively referred to as Gran Peru), with the states maybe being named after the Incan Sulus given the focus on Inca imagery and a desire to distance themselves from Spanish colonial influence a bit to assert their independence. So *North Peru would be Chinchasuyu, *South Peru would be Cuntisuyu, *Acre/Amazonas would be Antisuyu, and *Bolivia would be Collasuyu and then choose a different name after independence.

As for La Plata, I'm sure you'll come up with something good.

I realize now that we never decided on a flag for the UKCA either. Damn.

 

[Entrerriano]

Also, was the pre-Bolivarian blue and white flag of Ecuador based on anything Argentine? It looks like it was, but I can't find any sources indicating that.

What I can find tells me that some people think the colors represent two rivers and peace, with the design being taken from a colonial coat of arms of the city of Guayaquil, while others claim that they were chosen specifically because of the Argentine flag, given that was the colors of San Martín's Flag when liberating Peru (an Argentinian Brig had arrived to Guayaquil in 1816 trying to take the city too). It might be that the local design was reinforced by sharing colors with fellow revolutionaries, but there's no way to know for certain if the Argentine flag had any impact on it. I would use it regardless

Maybe blue might be included if Miller's flag still exists

Miller's flag is a bit more mysterious, but it would probably exist anyway, although some claim it was related to the Argentine flag too, but I don't think that's necessarily the case.

I realize now that we never decided on a flag for the UKCA either. Damn.

It would probably have a Union Jack somewhere

 

[Fox-Fire]

Hello! I'm back into the project. I'm sorry for my lack of input lately, real life comes first after all.

So, I was wondering several things, though more on the future side of the TL.

We were talking about South American flags, which reminded me of several things. I don't recall which of these I suggested and which other collaborators in the thread did, also forgetting which of these were my ideas and not a full part of the TL, so forgive if there is any favouritism, even if self-favouritism. Anyway, unto South America.

First of all, I'll admit, I'm Chilean and I want a large version of my country. However, this is also in the sense and interest that I'm desperate for any TLs with a large Chile on them. Or any interesting version of my country beyond "Different borders because of butterflies, not much more thought put into it". I have seen many one shots and maps; nonetheless, I have never seen a larger Chile in any TL I know of (which I'll admit, I'm not the best at reading TLs in the forum). Sorry if this is obnoxious. So, with that in mind:

What if Chile picked up the pieces of Argentina? Not in the sense of conquest, though that might happen for some places, but more on the influence sense. I had this idea of a large Southern Cone nation that could exist at the same time as British Río de la Plata but which wasn't culturally that Chilean, which I see is a more likelier way of it existing, the development of a common identity.

How would that work with the British, weren't they friendly? Well, what about a falling out between them? I was thinking that some administration could have sold the Patagonian claims or part of them. Not cities or anything built, just the right to be there without Perfidious Albion breathing down on their necks. Then the next one decided that said thing was a bad idea and create a dispute as a result. The main idea was having some friction between the colonies there. Main flashpoint could be the attempted Welsh settlement and maybe even some dispute in regards to the Magallanes Strait. The second being maybe caused by either navigation's rights and/or navigation taxes. I don't think the British would try to settle Punta Arenas or Tierra del Fuego, but maybe they could. I would incline myself more on the Isles deciding to supply the Natives with weapons to delay the Conquest of the "Desert", which in reality had people that called the lands theirs. That's because I wish to prevent things such as the Selk'nam Genocide and the discrimination faced by the Mapuche people for a long time, and in some aspects, still to this day.

Back to the pieces of Argentina. What if Chile absorbed some of them into itself, while also becoming a federal nation. There was an attempt in OTL through the short-lived Federal Constitution. Maybe this time we could make it work, but instead of eight states in just the west of the Andes, maybe something like five including the lands of former Argentina? Just a thought.

Anyway, I think we were going for the Confederation/State/Republic of Greater Perú, or some similar name, disintegrating or being disintegrated later. Are those plans still in motion? I remember we wanted an independent Acre.

Also, I really like the design of the flag you made. Maybe we could incorporate a Chacana in the red vertical bar to symbolize their connection to the former empire. Or, maybe we could go even more symbolic and use a Saint Andrew's Cross with a Chacana superimposed in the centre. It would represent the dual heritage of the state, but with the Inca legacy on top of the Spanish, while also the cross would represent the division of the original Tahuantinsuyo. Does that sound like a good idea?

And last but not least, that is great map. I have been trying some stuff on illustrator in the background of stuff and that map surely shows dedication.

 

[Entrerriano]

I don't think Cordoba, Tucuman and Salta would join Chile under any circumstances, to be honest. The Andes is a great enough barrier to separate them, and while I understand that there are few timelines with a big Chile, the fact is that being a country between a coast and one of the world's tallest mountain ranges really doesn't help. I could see Chile controlling land in Eastern Patagonia though, the British would be mostly interested on using Plata as a breadbasket and Patagonia isn't really suitable for that. They would still try to colonize it to some extent (native raids being constantly harassing your borders will do that), but not to the extent to what Argentina did OTL.

 

[Višeslav]

Hello! I'm back into the project. I'm sorry for my lack of input lately, real life comes first after all.

Real life absolutely comes first, there's no need to apologize. Welcome back.

So, I was wondering several things, though more on the future side of the TL.

We were talking about South American flags, which reminded me of several things. I don't recall which of these I suggested and which other collaborators in the thread did, also forgetting which of these were my ideas and not a full part of the TL, so forgive if there is any favouritism, even if self-favouritism. Anyway, unto South America.

First of all, I'll admit, I'm Chilean and I want a large version of my country. However, this is also in the sense and interest that I'm desperate for any TLs with a large Chile on them. Or any interesting version of my country beyond "Different borders because of butterflies, not much more thought put into it". I have seen many one shots and maps; nonetheless, I have never seen a larger Chile in any TL I know of (which I'll admit, I'm not the best at reading TLs in the forum). Sorry if this is obnoxious. So, with that in mind:

What if Chile picked up the pieces of Argentina? Not in the sense of conquest, though that might happen for some places, but more on the influence sense. I had this idea of a large Southern Cone nation that could exist at the same time as British Río de la Plata but which wasn't culturally that Chilean, which I see is a more likelier way of it existing, the development of a common identity.

How would that work with the British, weren't they friendly? Well, what about a falling out between them? I was thinking that some administration could have sold the Patagonian claims or part of them. Not cities or anything built, just the right to be there without Perfidious Albion breathing down on their necks. Then the next one decided that said thing was a bad idea and create a dispute as a result. The main idea was having some friction between the colonies there. Main flashpoint could be the attempted Welsh settlement and maybe even some dispute in regards to the Magallanes Strait. The second being maybe caused by either navigation's rights and/or navigation taxes. I don't think the British would try to settle Punta Arenas or Tierra del Fuego, but maybe they could. I would incline myself more on the Isles deciding to supply the Natives with weapons to delay the Conquest of the "Desert", which in reality had people that called the lands theirs. That's because I wish to prevent things such as the Selk'nam Genocide and the discrimination faced by the Mapuche people for a long time, and in some aspects, still to this day.

Back to the pieces of Argentina. What if Chile absorbed some of them into itself, while also becoming a federal nation. There was an attempt in OTL through the short-lived Federal Constitution. Maybe this time we could make it work, but instead of eight states in just the west of the Andes, maybe something like five including the lands of former Argentina? Just a thought.

Well, IIRC, the current plan is to give Chile a large part of Patagonia, making the country significantly larger than it is IOTL, but the Chile-Argentina seems kind of unlikely to me. The geographic barriers are something of a problem as it the lack of realistic British interest in Patagonia beyond prestige and the straits, but also, that would just hop into the other common trope of "what if we just erased the border between Chile and Argentina?" It sounds interesting, but I might just have to say no to it (unless most other people really like it or it makes a lot more sense than I think). Sorry, this of course doesn't mean that I don't appreciate all your contributions to TTL, so don't take it personally.

That being said, I find the idea of a federal southern cone state interesting, but I'm pretty attached to what we currently have going for the time being.

Also, it's pretty brave of you to admit straight up that you lowkey want to see your country wanked. A lot of people feel this way, but either ignore it in favor of realistic AH or, as I unfortunately often see, they come up with some really sideways logic just to make their countries bigger. I think admitting it like you did is a lot more respectable than the latter. Knowing your biases is always useful.

Anyway, I think we were going for the Confederation/State/Republic of Greater Perú, or some similar name, disintegrating or being disintegrated later. Are those plans still in motion? I remember we wanted an independent Acre.

Also, I really like the design of the flag you made. Maybe we could incorporate a Chacana in the red vertical bar to symbolize their connection to the former empire. Or, maybe we could go even more symbolic and use a Saint Andrew's Cross with a Chacana superimposed in the centre. It would represent the dual heritage of the state, but with the Inca legacy on top of the Spanish, while also the cross would represent the division of the original Tahuantinsuyo. Does that sound like a good idea?

Thanks. I'm pretty happy with the color combination in that flag as well. I think that using both the cross and Chacana is a bit too busy in the wrong way, as the flag already has a lot of colors and lines going in different directions. The current placeholder is that flag with Inti (like the sun with the face), a symbol used by Andean countries, particularly Peru during the revolutions IOTL, likely due to it being an import Incan symbol that also fits in nicely with European heraldic and symbolic traditions (I mean, you see suns with faces in Europe as well) with 4 stars above it symbolizing the four Suyus (it's literally just the symbol from OTLs south Peru flag, but i think it fits really well. The Chacana would fit just as well IMO and is simpler, but I don't think it fits the 19th century flag aesthetic as well, which was typically simple division of field and either no symbol or at least a somewhat complex symbol. It fits rather well with the modern preference for simple divisions of field and simple symbols. I'll see what I can do with that. Maybe I'll put the Chacana on a presidential ensign or something or just not use Inti if I change my mind. Maybe I'll have them change to using the Chacana later on because I do like the symbol.

You are correct about breaking Peru. I don't remember Acre, but I think that it's an interesting possibility and could add some flavor to the northern part of South America.

Speaking of the future I wonder what's going to happen with Peru/Bolivia's southern coast. Is Chile gonna gobble those up like IOTL or will they keep them? What do you think?

And last but not least, that is great map. I have been trying some stuff on illustrator in the background of stuff and that map surely shows dedication.

Thanks, but I have to ask, which map? The Europe one? The world maps here? Or the world map I posted in the WIP thread? Something else entirely maybe?

I'm so sorry for all the rejections on your first post after a long time.

 

[Entrerriano]

A lot of people feel this way, but either ignore it in favor of realistic AH or, as I unfortunately often see, they come up with some really sideways logic just to make their countries bigger.

Meanwhile I'm giving away land to the British and Paraguayans and then splitting the remainder into three lmao.
I will try to come up with some flags now btw.

 

[Višeslav]

Meanwhile I'm giving away land to the British and Paraguayans and then splitting the remainder into three lmao.
I will try to come up with some flags now btw.

Yes, I was thinking you were quite the opposite, but I thought if I said it like that, it would come off as claiming you're better than Fox-Fire which isn't something I want to do. I guess you fit into the first category sort of. You're just doing what makes sense/seems the coolest given the timeline. Not all people do that sort of thing, but a fair amount do.

Also, that sounds great. Can't wait to see them.

 

[Entrerriano]

So I did some brainstorming and I came up with some designs. A bit of explanation about the colors:
Red: It has the obvious connotation of blood spilled for independence (and against the British). It was also one of the colors used on Spanish flags and the CoA of the City of Cordoba. It's also possible that red cockades were used during the British invasions
Yellow: Also used in the CoA of Cordoba, and also present in the Spanish flag. It could be given the meaning of representing the richness of the South American nations.
White: Symbolizes peace and it's also the color known as "Silver" in heraldry, and it would be associated with the greater Río de La Plata region.
Light Blue: Also used in cockades around that time, it would also help to set apart the Flag of Cordoba from the Spanish flags.
Red, Yellow and Blue were used by Miranda and Bolívar too, and as their campaigns were the most succesful, they could influence the flags of other South American Nations too.

These are all for Cordoba btw, but I might reuse concepts for Tucuman and Salta. Please tell me what you think. My favorite is possibly the center top one.

 

[mikroraptor]

View attachment 545165
So I did some brainstorming and I came up with some designs. A bit of explanation about the colors:
Red: It has the obvious connotation of blood spilled for independence (and against the British). It was also one of the colors used on Spanish flags and the CoA of the City of Cordoba. It's also possible that red cockades were used during the British invasions
Yellow: Also used in the CoA of Cordoba, and also present in the Spanish flag. It could be given the meaning of representing the richness of the South American nations.
White: Symbolizes peace and it's also the color known as "Silver" in heraldry, and it would be associated with the greater Río de La Plata region.
Light Blue: Also used in cockades around that time, it would also help to set apart the Flag of Cordoba from the Spanish flags.
Red, Yellow and Blue were used by Miranda and Bolívar too, and as their campaigns were the most succesful, they could influence the flags of other South American Nations too.

These are all for Cordoba btw, but I might reuse concepts for Tucuman and Salta. Please tell me what you think. My favorite is possibly the center top one.

I like the top right flag, but I might put the white stripe in the center?

 

[Višeslav]

View attachment 545165
So I did some brainstorming and I came up with some designs. A bit of explanation about the colors:
Red: It has the obvious connotation of blood spilled for independence (and against the British). It was also one of the colors used on Spanish flags and the CoA of the City of Cordoba. It's also possible that red cockades were used during the British invasions
Yellow: Also used in the CoA of Cordoba, and also present in the Spanish flag. It could be given the meaning of representing the richness of the South American nations.
White: Symbolizes peace and it's also the color known as "Silver" in heraldry, and it would be associated with the greater Río de La Plata region.
Light Blue: Also used in cockades around that time, it would also help to set apart the Flag of Cordoba from the Spanish flags.
Red, Yellow and Blue were used by Miranda and Bolívar too, and as their campaigns were the most succesful, they could influence the flags of other South American Nations too.

These are all for Cordoba btw, but I might reuse concepts for Tucuman and Salta. Please tell me what you think. My favorite is possibly the center top one.

Overall, great job.

I see you avoided putting blue in the middle at all costs, I assume this is to avoid convergence.

So you like the lighter Romania the best? Personally, I quite like the red yellow and blue tricolor, though there is something off about some of the flags. Maybe its the lack of dark colors or the lack of symbols or just the way they're arranged like they're on one of those signal flag lists, but they give me strong signal flag vibes. The tricolors are good though. I like the top ones on both sides and am always a fan of red white and yellow tricolors, but somehow don't think it would fit the best here. I like the inclusion of the light blue as it sets them apart a bit more from other flagsq.

Maybe try a slightly darker or less saturated blue though, like not the normal dark/regular blue, just a darker light blue closer to Nicaragua's flag. What you've got here is baby, or maya blue, try something in between a Carolina blue ( #4B9CD3 ) and a Steel Blue (#4682B4 ) if you can, otherwise I'll try my hand at it and see how it looks. Maybe something like the blue on this OTL flag of Cordoba. It's a small change but I think it might make a big difference.

My top 3 are the 2 on the sides of the top and the middle left (viewer's left, the one in the middle with the yellow).

I find the middle right one mildly entertaining. It's the Sorbian (Lusatian) tricolor with a similar shade of blue to the one the Montenegrins used to distinguish themselves from Serbia. It's like if Sorbia had a neighbor called Montonogro.

 

[Fox-Fire]

Real life absolutely comes first, there's no need to apologize. Welcome back.

Thank you, I'm glad to be back!

but the Chile-Argentina seems kind of unlikely to me. The geographic barriers are something of a problem as it the lack of realistic British interest in Patagonia beyond prestige and the straits, but also, that would just hop into the other common trope of "what if we just erased the border between Chile and Argentina?"

Eh, it's no problem. It was a far-fetched idea to begin with.

Sorry, this of course doesn't mean that I don't appreciate all your contributions to TTL, so don't take it personally.

Don't ever worry that, you have been nothing but accomodating, polite and considerate to us contributors.

That being said, I find the idea of a federal southern cone state interesting, but I'm pretty attached to what we currently have going for the time being.

Why not make, in the far future considering the time were are talking about, of course, a more powerful equivalent of Mercosur? Something akin the to EU could do the trick and if not, why not have some sort of Schengen Area for the Southern Cone?

Also, it's pretty brave of you to admit straight up that you lowkey want to see your country wanked. A lot of people feel this way, but either ignore it in favor of realistic AH or, as I unfortunately often see, they come up with some really sideways logic just to make their countries bigger. I think admitting it like you did is a lot more respectable than the latter. Knowing your biases is always useful.

Well, I try to do my best in manny aspects, but in other I like to, plainly and simply, have fun.

Speaking of the future I wonder what's going to happen with Peru/Bolivia's southern coast. Is Chile gonna gobble those up like IOTL or will they keep them? What do you think?

I'm so sorry for all the rejections on your first post after a long time.

Nah, how could I get better if I don't have some things criticized or rejected?

 

[Fox-Fire]

Also, made a flag for (Greater) Perú. You were right, the St. Andrew's cross amde it look too busy, so I made this instead. This has to be the easiest flag to copy and make before modern times. You can even draw it on a notebook with a square pattern.

 

[Višeslav]

Also, made a flag for (Greater) Perú. You were right, the St. Andrew's cross amde it look too busy, so I made this instead. This has to be the easiest flag to copy and make before modern times. You can even draw it on a notebook with a square pattern.

View attachment 545235

This looks amazing. It still kind of calls back to the St. Andrew's cross (more the reverse one that was used and incorporates quite a bit of Inca symbolism, has a great color combination, and is simultaneously simple enough to be replicated and (with the face) complex enough that it fits in with flags of the time. It's literally the perfect flag for the country IMO.

 

[Entrerriano]

Overall, great job.

I see you avoided putting blue in the middle at all costs, I assume this is to avoid convergence.

So you like the lighter Romania the best? Personally, I quite like the red yellow and blue tricolor, though there is something off about some of the flags. Maybe its the lack of dark colors or the lack of symbols or just the way they're arranged like they're on one of those signal flag lists, but they give me strong signal flag vibes. The tricolors are good though. I like the top ones on both sides and am always a fan of red white and yellow tricolors, but somehow don't think it would fit the best here. I like the inclusion of the light blue as it sets them apart a bit more from other flagsq.

Maybe try a slightly darker or less saturated blue though, like not the normal dark/regular blue, just a darker light blue closer to Nicaragua's flag. What you've got here is baby, or maya blue, try something in between a Carolina blue ( #4B9CD3 ) and a Steel Blue (#4682B4 ) if you can, otherwise I'll try my hand at it and see how it looks. Maybe something like the blue on this OTL flag of Cordoba. It's a small change but I think it might make a big difference.

My top 3 are the 2 on the sides of the top and the middle left (viewer's left, the one in the middle with the yellow).

I find the middle right one mildly entertaining. It's the Sorbian (Lusatian) tricolor with a similar shade of blue to the one the Montenegrins used to distinguish themselves from Serbia. It's like if Sorbia had a neighbor called Montonogro.

Thanks for the feedback! As soon as I get to my PC I'll do more stuff

Why not make, in the far future considering the time were are talking about, of course, a more powerful equivalent of Mercosur? Something akin the to EU could do the trick and if not, why not have some sort of Schengen Area for the Southern Cone?

Oh, this could definitely be a thing at some point, I like the idea

Also, made a flag for (Greater) Perú. You were right, the St. Andrew's cross amde it look too busy, so I made this instead. This has to be the easiest flag to copy and make before modern times. You can even draw it on a notebook with a square pattern.

View attachment 545235

Friendly reminder that the first OTL flag of Perú that was Red and White was created by José de San Martín, who in this TL isn't around to liberate anyone (he's probably still in Spain tbh), so idk what would happen with the Peruvian flag. I like the design but I'm a bit worried on the convergence with OTL.

 

[Entrerriano]

So here I selected three flags and tried with the different shades of blue, and also two new designs at the bottom left. What do you guys think? My favorite is probably A2/A3 or B2 (if we take this like a spreadsheet)

 

[Entrerriano]

Please give some feedback I appreciate the likes but I can't choose alone

 

[Fox-Fire]

Friendly reminder that the first OTL flag of Perú that was Red and White was created by José de San Martín, who in this TL isn't around to liberate anyone (he's probably still in Spain tbh), so idk what would happen with the Peruvian flag. I like the design but I'm a bit worried on the convergence with OTL.

My first idea was to have each of the triangular quarters being a different colour to represent to Suyos, but the flag looked too crowded and disorderly. Maybe I could find a design that doesn't incorporate the white and the red, they are the less important part of the flag to be honest, but I wanted to have some continuity with the common thought we have of Perú.

Also, B2, C2, A3 and C3 in that order.

 

[Višeslav]

View attachment 545315
So here I selected three flags and tried with the different shades of blue, and also two new designs at the bottom left. What do you guys think? My favorite is probably A2/A3 or B2 (if we take this like a spreadsheet)

I agree. I think I like A3 the best (assuming letters are the columns like in Excel).

Here's some messing around I did with the designs I liked. Some of it turned out bad, but some are half decent:

Oh, this could definitely be a thing at some point, I like the idea

I agree, I'm a fan of @Fox-Fire 's idea Southern Cone or South American EU-style organization. I see no reason why it wouldn't happen so far, and a few why it might.

If it's just a Southern Cone thing, I could see it growing out of an increased need for international economic cooperation between the Argentine states and potentially their neighbors. Where IOTL you have them unified into one country with its own coast, more or less on the same level of development as the other countries around them, ITTL they'd be small, 2 if not all would be landlocked, they would be robbed of many of OTL Argentina's major urban centers and have to compete economically with the major British colony/*dominion in the neighborhood. Thus they may have to cooperate more to not be completely economically overshadowed by the giant next door. A less interventionist US also helps with this. Internal stability is something of a prerequisite for successful multinational unions, and, while most of South America's instability comes from internal issues, american intervention has had a part to play. This would likely not be too big of a change though, especially considering the heightened internal rivalries, and the British might end up being even more meddlesome.

Friendly reminder that the first OTL flag of Perú that was Red and White was created by José de San Martín, who in this TL isn't around to liberate anyone (he's probably still in Spain tbh), so idk what would happen with the Peruvian flag. I like the design but I'm a bit worried on the convergence with OTL.

I think that the red and white in Fox-Fire's flag comes from the Spanish colonial flag (the Burgundian cross), not sure though. My personal opinion on convergence is that if there's a good reason for something ITTL to be similar to how it was IOTL, then that's not a problem.

I also really strongly associate Peru with red and white, I have very strong color-concept Synesthesia , basically, I associate all kinds of things with colors, like countries, numbers, months, letters, ad days of the week which can actually be a problem for AH stuff because these associations often come from things like flags and such that exist IOTL, as is the case with Peru.

If we really want to distance the flag from OTL though, we could replace the red with blue, deriving it from Miller's original design but I don't think it's necessary.

 

[Entrerriano]

Here's some messing around I did with the designs I liked. Some of it turned out bad, but some are half decent:

I like the two vertical tricolors tbh (so A3 and its variant), will probably use one of those for the final design. I could also use both, one as an early flag and the other as a definitive one.

I think that the red and white in Fox-Fire's flag comes from the Spanish colonial flag (the Burgundian cross), not sure though. My personal opinion on convergence is that if there's a good reason for something ITTL to be similar to how it was IOTL, then that's not a problem.

The fun thing is, it's possible that San Martin had the exact same inspiration IOTL, as he was a supporter of constitutional monarchies and I remember reading about him or some people close to him asking certain European royal houses about sending a prince to be King of Peru.

 

[Višeslav]

I like the two vertical tricolors tbh (so A3 and its variant), will probably use one of those for the final design. I could also use both, one as an early flag and the other as a definitive one.


The fun thing is, it's possible that San Martin had the exact same inspiration IOTL, as he was a supporter of constitutional monarchies and I remember reading about him or some people close to him asking certain European royal houses about sending a prince to be King of Peru.

The choice sounds good to me. As for the reasoning behind the flag IOTL, that's pretty interesting. I thought it might have been connected, but I didn't get around to looking it up.


Also, just thinking about the collapse of Gran Peru. Did you have anything in mind or not? IIRC, both Peru and Bolivia had factions supportive of breakup IOTL. That might be how we get a temporarily independent South Peru, with one Peru claiming to be an independent state and the other claiming to be the successor to the federation and wanting to reunify it. Either way, I think that the splitting off of South Peru and Acre would take place around when *Bolivia splits off, maybe all of the Suyus are just recognized as independent at the end and North and South Peru eventually reunite. The reasoning I had in mind for Acrean independence was simply that they don't feel any other power would ever represent them enough. They'd always be low priority as part of another country. Someone else's jungle backwater to give resources and be otherwise ignored. Only an independent Acre would prioritize the needs of Acreanos enough.

As for the names of the countries, I could see Peru just remaining Peru and Acre being Acre, as Peru would be the name of the previous state and the Acre river's name was given very early on. The influx of Lusophone Brazilians that happened in Acre IOTL may or may not happen ITTL, I guess we'll see. I'd imagine ITTL Bolivia might be called Characas (the old colonial name for the region) or something, and that Acre would be substantially larger than OTLs Brazilian state, likely most of Bolivia's former lands in modern Brazil. Acre could also be called Amazonia but I'm not really a fan of that.