The Colossus Of The New World - a worldbuilding project

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Višeslav, Aug 26, 2019.

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  1. Višeslav Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2018


    Overall I like it. Honestly the only changes that immediately come to mind are minor grammatical ones. What you have here is more like what you'd find in a full TL than one of the little point form stuff often found in graphics threads, so I really appreciate that extra work.
    That's amazing. Thank you so much.
     
  2. Bennett Human Time-Waster

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    Jun 3, 2017
    Thanks! I expect there to be some grammatical errors and clunky writing in there (always been a problem of mine, I'll try to clean it up when I combine the two parts). I'm glad you enjoyed the extra details! I modeled it (in part) off of textbooks, and also off of a want to write alternate history stuff again (been seriously struggling with writer's block, so I haven't updated my actual timeline in quite awhile). I'll work on the part two at some point soon!
     
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  3. Fox-Fire I've jumped into the fire.

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    I added some thing to the Doc but that got me thinking, maybe we could create a Discord for the project when we have more material. I think now would be too early.

    Also, this reminds me, I don't know if you already decided, will we be using OTL figures and adapting them for the TL or will we be creating our own important political figures after the PoD has been in the past long enough? Depending on that I can start working on some things.
     
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  4. Bennett Human Time-Waster

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    I'm always more on board for using OTL figures, tbh.
     
  5. Višeslav Well-Known Member

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    I like the information for big Latin American events that you added. We need to figure out, would the independent California be more Anglo or Hispanic? I was thinking Hispanic with an Anglo minority (I imagine most English speaking Californians would be in the gold-rich, US controlled north, as Anglo settlement further south would not be so big initially, and some would probably move to the US afterwards). What do you think makes the most sense?

    Either is fine, a mix of both? Using OTL figures is less realistic, but also interesting (seeing how OTL figures turn out in an ATL can be exciting to read about) and less of a pain in the аѕs than creating whole new people. Also, with OTL figures, you can play on people's knowledge of them OTL (obviously Stalin or Hitler for example carry a lot of connotations), either using it as sort of shorthand or subverting their image to emphasize changes TTL. The other problem is that using new figures can end up making their lives backstories or views either too convenient or too convergent.

    I guess what I'm saying is either can be useful (one for realism, the other for other reasons), but either one can also be lazy. I'm not gonna say no to completely made up figures, but, since most similar projects use OTL figures (usually more obscure ones), and some people seem to like it, that will be the main source of political figures, unless there are any big objections to this, in which case feel free to tell me.


    Also, since I brought up California, I was wondering if Bennett had any input on dividing the area the US gains from Mexico, seeing as he seems to have taken a major role in the Mexican-American war bit.
     
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  6. Bennett Human Time-Waster

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    You mean how the Mexican cession would be divided into states? I'll certainly try my best to come up with some proposals if that's the case. I'll work on continuing the California post this weekend, btw.
     
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  7. Višeslav Well-Known Member

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    Yes that's what I mean. I'm happy to hear that the California post is coming. I've tried to figure something out for the states, but It's not going great. I expect that roughly OTL Northern California would be a state and become a state earlier due to its greater economic potential, overall importance, and population compared to the empty desert between it and Cheyenne. Not sure how the middle would be split up or what would happen with the Mormons TTL, would they still exist? If so, maybe I could see a slightly larger than OTL Deseret/Utah (not because I like the big Deseret trope, honestly not a fan, but because considering the greater freedom of states, I would imagine a more lenient application and land claiming process), but that's not something I'm sure on and it still leaves plenty of room for other states.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  8. Bennett Human Time-Waster

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    updated col usa.png
    My proposal for the new states. It's two and I know that's lame but, honestly it's probably the most realistic. Smaller states are unlikely, so I try to avoid them. The one taking place of Northern California has a couple names open to it -- Colorado, Shasta, Nevada, etc. Any of these work. The state making up Utah could have multiple names, depending on who settles it. Assuming it is more Anglo-resided (and therefore using a butchering of Native names), it could go by Utah or Yuta. It could also be named after whoever discovers it.

    On Mormons (and other religious groups), the existence of these depend on American society. To my understanding, the Second Great Awakening (which re-introduced American philosophy with theism, while also seeing the rise of new religious groups like Mormons and Shakers) was a culmination of multiple factors -- Pietism in Germany, Evangelicalism in England, etc. were on the rise in the same period as the SGA. The expansion and recognition of the American Frontier allowed churches to send missionaries out to smaller settlements out West, "reintroducing" these settlers to organized religion. However, the rise of a dead-on Mormonism is... hard to predict. It's generally unlikely, but not implausible.
     
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  9. Fox-Fire I've jumped into the fire.

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    About the states, can I ask for the Canadian ones to have a common parallel in which they stop instead of having that strange descending "stairway" towards the east?

    I like it quite a lot actually for the reasons you stated. My only doubt is why not leaving the whole bay in US hands? Unless I'm not seeing the map correctly, or it isn't precise enough, which it can be.

    What about a fictional figure of the time for a name? After all, I think we agreed on using some fictional figures, right? We could also name it Salinas, the Spanish name for "salt flatlands". Or maybe, just call it Clark so as to have a counterpart to Lousiana XD (I know that the expedition went on through the north in OTL, but maybe ITTL it went through another path or maybe simply as homage.) Another, more boring but maybe more realistic idea would be to name it after a president or liberator.
     
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  10. Višeslav Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to Mormonism, I have no particular interest in having it exist (or not) so I'll go with the most plausible outcome: no Mormons.

    As for states, I was thinking 3 at most myself, but I like the way your 2 states look. For a name, Colorado and Nevada might be confusing to people, so for that reason, I'd go with Shasta. I like @Fox-Fire's ideas as well, but I prefer Shasta. Yuta isn't bad but Utah is the bastardization that existed otl, and I think it's fine honestly. So, Utah and Shasta.
     
  11. Bennett Human Time-Waster

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    Later on down the line, I'd be interested in trying to create some fringe religions a la Mormonism, Shakerism, Latter-Day Saints, etc. Probably will end up with a couple sects based off of different combinations of those and other beliefs.
     
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  12. Višeslav Well-Known Member

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    That would be cool. I'd love to see hwat [edit: *what. miss me with that Saxon ѕнiт. Yes that was an unintentional mistake] you come up with when we get to that.
     
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  13. Fox-Fire I've jumped into the fire.

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    Do you have a non-transparent worlda version of the US?
     
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  14. Višeslav Well-Known Member

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    No but I think I have a Q-BAM
     
  15. Bennett Human Time-Waster

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    Should have content ready this weekend! Sorry for taking so long!
     
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  16. Višeslav Well-Known Member

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    That's great news!
    There's no need to apologize tho, this isn't your job and nobody else has done anything.
     
  17. Višeslav Well-Known Member

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    So, I was thinking, a good long-term graphic project for this TL is to create a graphic like this (from UsefulCharts.com) and add to it as we go to summarize US history. The idea is to have a downwards timeline with one column for the presidents and maybe british monarchs from the beginning of colonization to the revolution, one for major historical events, one with a sort of timeline of every state, with the line changing colour based on who owns the state (ie. California starts green for first nations, goes to yellow for spain, becomes dark green for Mexico, light grey for a US territory and finally dark blue for a state) and brief points for major events, and finally one collumn with maps showing territorial changes in the area of TTL's modern US.

    Do you think I should start working on something like that or does it seem more like a pointless distraction?
     
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  18. brickhouse The Town Weirdo

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    Mar 12, 2018
    If you can make it not only would it be cool but would be a glimse into the timeline of events for this tl so I say go for it.
     
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  19. Bennett Human Time-Waster

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    Jun 3, 2017
    Oh, hey, while we're back at this, I've been reading a bit more into the Constitutional Convention. We could, potentially, have Madison be the third POTUS, and have a President Morris in his wake?
     
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  20. Hindustani Person Gussie Fink-Nottle

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    Apologies, but I think I’m going to drop out of this project. I hope no-one minds
     
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