The child of Mary and Phillip

Arch-Angel

Lets say Mary I of England and Phillip II manage to have a healthy son that lives to reach his majority. What is the world like? To make it even more interesting, what if Charles V had chosen to give all his lands to Phillip instead of splitting them between Phil and his brother? Could we see a united Catholic Europe under a Hapsburg?
 

Don_Giorgio

France would never accepted that!!!
War would be imminent...
Besides how could Mary have a child?? he was 26 she was 42... who does she think she was?? Sarah??
Besides Philippe slept with Mary no more than 3-4 times per year... not enough to impregnate her....
 

Don_Giorgio

I know that...
But wont work on a 42 yo woman... especially in 15th century...
If she was 18-21 yo thats a total yes...
But to a 42 yo spinster??? no way...
 

Condottiero

In case Philip and Mary had a son (or a daughter), he or she would not become the combined heir of both crowns. Mary would still probably die earlier than Philip and he would marry again and have descendants. Then he would probably do the same thing his father did and divide: England + Ireland + Flanders + French Comté for Mary's son and the rest for the other heir. The spaniards would not complain as this would free them from fighting in northern Europe and concentrating in the Mediterranean and the Americas. However this would require an stable and mostly Catholic England.

It would be really interesting to see a world with a catholic England more phocused in continental Europe.
 

Arch-Angel

Situation: Mary and Philip manage to have not one but two children. The eldest is a daughter named Catherine followed by a son named Philip. Mary dies in 1560 and Philip initially wants his son to be crowned King of England but Parliament will hear nothing of it. Through negotiation and diplomacy Parliament and Philip reach an agreement where Catherine will be crowned Queen of England and be given the Spanish Netherlands and French Comte while Philip (the younger) will inherit Spain and Naples from his father. Though Catherine and Philip see little of each other they keep in contact with one another and develop a strong sibling bond. Catherine also develops into a skilled politicians and pragmatic Catholic; she has a good report with her aunt Elizabeth and manages to bring peace to England. Catherine marries James VI of Scotland, which means any child they have will inherit the throne of Scotland as well. Problems occur in 1601 when Philip (Catherine’s beloved brother) dies with no heir. Catherine travels to Spain to attend the funeral where she is seen crying. She is welcomed as the Queen of Spain and Naples, now her children will inherit them as well. In the coming generations the monarchs do their best to keep their various realms together and manage to do so successfully thanks to skilled management from several of them. Some notable achievements are the creation of a parliament in Spain by James II/I/VII in 1635 and the victorious war over France in 1626 by Henry IX/I/I. In 1680, after nearly one hundred years of separate thrones, Philip the Great, the great-great-grandson of Catherine I convinces the various parliaments to unite the thrones. The Act of Union creates the United Empire with its seat in London. The Imperial Parliament will sit in London as well, but each constituent state will retain its local parliament and the new Emperor will keep the titles King of England, Spain, and Scotland. Today, the United Empire rules over much of the world peacefully.

Sovereign of England (including Spanish Netherlands and French Comte)
Mary I Tudor (1516-1560) (birth-death)
Regent Thomas Howard, 4th Duke of Norfolk (1560-1572) (rule)
Catherine I Hapsburg (1560 to 1615) (rule)
Henry IX Hapsburg (1615-1627) (rule)
James II Hapsburg (1627-1643) (rule)
Henry X Hapsburg (1643-1670) (rule)
Philip I Hapsburg the great (1670-1698)* (rule)
*-combined his realms into a united throne in 1680 though the Emperor/Empress retains the title King/Queen of England

Sovereign of Spain (including Naples and the Spanish American Colonies)
Philip II Hapsburg (1527-1598) (birth-death)
Philip III Hapsburg (1598-1601) (rule)
Catherine I Hapsburg (1560 to 1615) (rule)
Henry I Hapsburg (1615-1627) (rule)
James I Hapsburg (1627-1643) (rule)
Henry II Hapsburg (1643-1670) (rule)
Philip IV Hapsburg the great (1670-1698)* (rule)
*-combined his realms into a united throne in 1680 though the Emperor/Empress retains the title King/Queen of Spain

Sovereign of Scotland
James VI (1566-1625) (birth-death)
Henry I Hapsburg (1615-1627) (rule)
James VII Hapsburg (1627-1643) (rule)
Henry II Hapsburg (1643-1670) (rule)
Philip I Hapsburg the great (1670-1698)* (rule)
*-combined his realms into a united throne in 1680 though the Emperor/Empress retains the title King/Queen of Scotland

Sovereign of the United Empire
Philip I Hapsburg the great (1670-1698)* (rule)
Catherine I Hapsburg (1698-1704)
Mary I Hapsburgs (1704-1736)
Philip II Hapsburg (1736-1750)
James I Hapsburg (the mad) (1750-1752)
Philip III Hapsburg (1752-1765)
Henry I Hapsburg (1765-1794)
Henry II Hapsburg (1794-1840)*
James II Hapsburg (regent from 1820-1840 Emperor from 1840-1847)
*regency existed from 1820 to 1840
Catherine II Hapsburg (1847-1900)
Philip IV Hapsburg (1900-1908)
James III Hapsburg (1908-1920)
Henry III Hapsburg (1920-1941)
Philip V Hapsburg (1941-1997)
Philip VI Hapsburg (1997-present)

Map at 1700

Hapsburg.PNG
 

Tyr

Condottiero said:
In case Philip and Mary had a son (or a daughter), he or she would not become the combined heir of both crowns. Mary would still probably die earlier than Philip and he would marry again and have descendants. Then he would probably do the same thing his father did and divide: England + Ireland + Flanders + French Comté for Mary's son and the rest for the other heir. The spaniards would not complain as this would free them from fighting in northern Europe and concentrating in the Mediterranean and the Americas. However this would require an stable and mostly Catholic England.

It would be really interesting to see a world with a catholic England more phocused in continental Europe.
Click to expand...

That was the plan.


This is the era of personal rule. Charles V couldn't manage it with just the HRE, Spain, Netherlands and a few other gubbins and he was already giving out a lot of control to his inferiors. You really do have to split up such domains. People in history weren't idiots the rules of the world were just different to those shown in strategy games.
 

Arch-Angel

dreadnought jenkins said:
France had trouble holding onto North America in Otl against Britain alone. Hows it supposed to resist that Behemoth of an empire in this TL
Click to expand...

Their are balance of power issues. The UE (if anyone thinks of a better name let me know) has to contend with France and Russia (who became quite chummy).

Question: why does an Anglo-Spanish Union mean that the 21st century is a world of space-filling empires?
Click to expand...

Again, I would say balance of power issues. No one wanted to let go of their colonies. A note about the UE territory, their are numerous constituent kingdoms within their borders, so don't assume its all one giant colony.

That was the plan.


This is the era of personal rule. Charles V couldn't manage it with just the HRE, Spain, Netherlands and a few other gubbins and he was already giving out a lot of control to his inferiors. You really do have to split up such domains. People in history weren't idiots the rules of the world were just different to those shown in strategy games.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, but when one king dies in Spain his sister becomes sovereign. It just so happens that the sister is ruling England.
 

Max Sinister

Banned
OTL colonial powers gave them up either after they lost them (Germany, Italy, Japan), or after the rise of to former countries at the edge of the world (US, Russia, China) to world powers they became unholdable.

One power will always become weaker faster than the others (or be caught in a war it can't win). Then, either the others will take their colonies, or they will become independent.
 
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