The case that President Gore *would* have gone to war with Iraq

I have always assumed that if Gore had been elected president in 2000, he would not have gone to war with Iraq. After all, as a private citizen, he denounced the war even when many of his fellow Democrats were supporting it, and even when it had strong popular support.

However, that does not end the question. After all, presidents may be under constraints that their private-citizen critics are not. Thus, one should at least be open to the argument apparently made in Explaining the Iraq War: Counterfactual Theory, Logic and Evidence. By Frank P. Harvey. New York: Cambridge University Press, 2011 that for "structural" reasons a President Gore would indeed have gone to war with Saddam--whatever private-citizen Gore said (and sincerely believed) in OTL. I have not read Harvey's book, but from a symposium discussing the book, here is Bruce Gillie's summary:

"Laid out in meticulous fashion, Harvey’s book provides the evidence that Gore was long a liberal hawk, especially on Iraq (Chap. 2); that his advisors and likely cabinet members were no less so (Chap. 3); that bipartisan congressional pressures to do something after 9/11 were immense (Chap. 4); that intelligence failures were not caused by Bush but by the anxieties that followed 9/11 (Chap. 5), as was public support for war against Iraq (Chap. 6); that UN weapons inspectors and key allies, including not just the UK but also Germany and France, agreed that Iraq had committed serial and serious breaches of United Nation containment provisions (Chap. 7); and that if there is a “first image” leadership story to be told about Iraq, it should center not on Bush but on Saddam, whose personalistic regime was deeply war prone..

"The reason, Harvey argues, is path dependence: Once “President Gore” had decided to pursue a coercive diplomatic solution to the Iraq crisis through the UN—a strategy he had long endorsed and which he would have driven more forcefully in cabinet deliberations than Bush did—there could have been no turning back if the strategy failed. The intelligence community, stung by its 9/11 failure and searching for the most likely source of another one, would have produced largely the same dossiers in cooperation with key allies."

In the same symposium, Elizabeth Saunders rebuts Harvey as follows: "The difference between the Gore and Bush stances on nation building has important implications for the way we set up the counterfactual of a Gore administration confronting Iraq because strategy and war planning con strain the options that presidents consider. Arguably, the relevant decision Gore faced was between intervening with a plan for a potentially lengthy postwar period and not intervening at all. For Bush, in contrast, the choice was between what he thought would be a limited intervention and no intervention."

Unfortunately the symposium does not seem to be available online any more except to subscribers: http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...3712&fulltextType=MR&fileId=S153759271300087X Saunders discusses her own contribution to the symposium at http://www.whiteoliphaunt.com/duckofminerva/2013/07/would-al-gore-fought-the-iraq-war.html ("Leaders can be grouped into one of two categories: those who believe that threats come from other states’ domestic institutions, and thus are more likely to seek to change those institutions, and those who focus on external state behavior and thus prefer more limited intervention options. In the 2000 campaign, Bush made no secret of his preference for the surgical option and his disdain for nation-building, while during the campaign and in the run-up to the war, Gore repeatedly mentioned the importance of nation-building and following through in Iraq. This is not to say that Gore would have been any more successful even with a different strategy – in fact, his views on threats and strategy might have led him to avoid war. Intervention strategy cannot be separated from the decision to intervene in the first place: if you believe that a nation-building effort is necessary, but will be quite difficult, you may be reluctant to intervene at all. In Gore’s case, his views on nation-building and the difficulties of fighting in Iraq might have led him to stay out of Iraq, just as Bush’s embrace of a limited approach helped propel the US into war.")

I have not read Harvey's book, and until I do, I am reluctant to comment in detail but one thing that occurs to me: if McCain had won in 2008 and had resorted to force against Iran before 2012, some political scientist would doubtless have published a book arguing that for structural reasons a President Obama would also have had to do the same during *his* first term...
 
Interesting. However, Gore would have had a domestic political constraint to consider that Bush did not: the distinct possibility of a primary challenge and the unfortunate prior history of Democratic Presidents who started similar wars and were subsequently forced from office -- i.e. Truman and Johnson.
 
The only problem with this is that the Bush administration clearly wanted a war in Iraq and pressured the intelligence community to bolster their case and leaked selective bits of info to the press to move the country toward war. This was not a case of the evidence pointing to the necessity of a war, but rather a desire for war pushing out selective evidence to make it happen.

Bush had surrounded himself with people who were members of PNAC, who had publicly stated they wanted a war for regime change in Iraq. We know that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 they kept forcing the CIA to go back and make sure Iraq was behind the attack, then after being told Iraq had nothing to do with it they were told to look again. The Bush administration were obsessed with Iraq on a level that a Gore administration would not have been.
 
The only problem with this is that the Bush administration clearly wanted a war in Iraq and pressured the intelligence community to bolster their case and leaked selective bits of info to the press to move the country toward war. This was not a case of the evidence pointing to the necessity of a war, but rather a desire for war pushing out selective evidence to make it happen.

Bush had surrounded himself with people who were members of PNAC, who had publicly stated they wanted a war for regime change in Iraq. We know that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 they kept forcing the CIA to go back and make sure Iraq was behind the attack, then after being told Iraq had nothing to do with it they were told to look again. The Bush administration were obsessed with Iraq on a level that a Gore administration would not have been.

OK, one can talk about the people Bush appointed, but what about the people Gore would appoint? Richard Holbrooke was widely considered his most likely Secretary of State. "In January 2001, Holbrooke said that "Iraq will be one of the major issues facing the incoming Bush administration at the United Nations." Further, "Saddam Hussein's activities continue to be unacceptable and, in my view, dangerous to the region and, indeed, to the world, not only because he possesses the potential for weapons of mass destruction but because of the very nature of his regime. His willingness to be cruel internally is not unique in the world, but the combination of that and his willingness to export his problems makes him a clear and present danger at all times." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Holbrooke

Holbrooke (September 17, 2002): "Disorganized and full of disarray the President straightened all that out with a beautifully crafted, beautifully delivered speech a week ago at the UN where didn’t change his positions an inch. Within a week Saddam Hussein blinked, he backed off to the extent of this letter....that’s in a week. The United States is now on the right track, whatever your goal, because Saddam has made this gesture. But I certainly agree with Secretary Powell that it’s not enough and there needs to be an embodying Security Council resolution as we move forward. I think Saddam Hussein is far away the most dangerous person in leadership in the world today and removing him, which is not related to September 11th, is a legitimate goal just as removing Milosevic was a legitimate goal and you and I spent a lot more time in Milosevic than Iraq....The undertaking of a vast military operation on the premise it will be success is always a gamble. Now let me be clear, I believe we will succeed militarily, I think with Saddam’s forces at 1/3 of the size they were they were a 12 years ago, our force is stronger, and with much stronger, better precision guided munitions and missiles and high incident of defection among the Iraqis, every day now American and British forces are taking down anti aircraft systems in the no fly zone....I don’t want to use a word like cake walk, that’s too contemptuous to the men and women who risk their lives, but I think the odds heavily favour us in a military conflict. But we can't do it alone, we need the Turks, we need the British, we need the support of at least one or two Arab states..." http://dspace.cigilibrary.org/jspui/bitstream/123456789/25162/1/President%20Al%20Gore%20and%20the%202003%20Iraq%20War%20-%20A%20Counterfactual%20Critique%20of%20Conventional%20W-Isdom.pdf?1

Leon Fuerth , considered Gore's likely choice for national Security Adviser, also favored regime change--and also thought "The entire political system he created must be rooted out" (a sentiment often ascribed only to neocons) http://books.google.com/books?id=PPF7_HuiMjsC&pg=PA101
 
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I think 9/11 is the key. If it is averted, then I feel that there's a good chance that Gore gets tempted into Iraq as his "foreign policy adventure".

If 9/11 happens, I think Afghanistan is the focus. I would expect Gore to deploy a much more significant portion of the army into Afghanistan, and though his advisors might have a WMD picture similar to Bush Jr. on Iraq, I would expect them to easily see through the absurd "Saddam Hussein is best buddies with Al-Qaeda" rationalizing that we saw in OTL. Both were vicious and opposed to US and its interests, but they were also obviously enemies.
 
I think the only reason Gore opposed the 2003 was was out of not being Bush. Clinton did indeed support the strikes, and continued doing so even after the first reports confirming Iraq had no WMD. (Check out his Time interview.)
Given how it was under the Clinton Administration that we first found out that Iraq had no WMD (with Hussein Kamil's CNN interview), I could see Gore going into Iraq.
 
There is a big difference between supporting regime change in Iraq, and outright saying the US should use our own military force to achieve it as the PNAC people did. Otherwise why didn't Clinton attempt to get the country on board for an invasion in the late 90's instead of lobbing missiles at select targets?

It was the Bush administration that conflated 9/11, Al Qaeda, and Iraq in the aftermath of the attack. They were not honest with the American people in the run up to the war. Every spokesperson they sent out would talk about 9/11 and in the next breath bring up Saddam and Iraq. You take the American people, who are in shock from a huge terror attack, then talk about the horror of 9/11 and lead into claiming "Al Qaeda has connections to Iraq", to "Iraq is close to having a nuke", to "we don't want the next smoking gun to come in the form of a mushroom cloud." It was all based on crap intelligence. They had to cherry pick certain things amongst all the rest of the evidence to make that connection.

If they had been honest and said something to the effect of "Saddam is violating some sanctions and is probably developing wmd's (we don't have any concrete proof that he is, but we're pretty sure he's doing it), but there is no connection to Al Qaeda, and this has nothing to do with 9/11, and there is no imminent threat to the US, we just think invading and kicking this guy out of power would be the right thing to do." If their arguments were something similar to that then we could have had an honest debate about whether or not a war would've been the right thing to do. But instead they played on people's fears after 9/11 and mislead to get the war they wanted. If you think Gore, as a continuation of Clinton, would have done the same thing then why didn't they try to drum up support for an invasion in the late 90's?
 

nooblet

Banned
There is no way the US is not going to finish what they started in Iraq, no matter who is president. The only question might be how the occupation is handled.
 
There is no way the US is not going to finish what they started in Iraq, no matter who is president. The only question might be how the occupation is handled.

Like when Clinton occupied Yugoslavia? Holbrooke even at his most hawkish isn't advocating for anything other than that—air support only. I tend to think this is as far as Gore would go, if he would ever go that far. There are structural reasons for the Iraq War, but a lot of it was due to personal reasons from me members of the Bush Administration. Gore's people were also for regime change, but that doesn't mean there would be a ground invasion, aloe intervention at all. The only alternate President who I think would be guaranteed to go to war in Iraq if elected in 2000 is John McCain.
 
Freaking Dennis Kucinich could've been President and something would've happened with Iraq by 2010. They'd been a thorn in the US' side for so long and the political reality was that if Iraq acted up at all, the American people would not accept anything less than Saddam out of power.

Does this mean an invasion and occupation as per OTL was inevitable? No. Maybe it would have been supporting a coup or bankrolling a civil war or large-scale air strikes or special operators or supporting other regional powers with limited direct support. But unless Saddam Hussein started hugging kittens, Kurds, and Kuwaitis, America would've done something to finish him.
 

dead_wolf

Banned
As well we have to consider that there might not even be a 9/11 under a Gore Presidency - terrorism had always been a high priority under the Clinton admin, something which Gore would have likely continued, and something which the W. Bush administration had scaled back considerably in its first year prior to 9/11.
 

dead_wolf

Banned
Freaking Dennis Kucinich could've been President and something would've happened with Iraq by 2010. They'd been a thorn in the US' side for so long and the political reality was that if Iraq acted up at all, the American people would not accept anything less than Saddam out of power.

Does this mean an invasion and occupation as per OTL was inevitable? No. Maybe it would have been supporting a coup or bankrolling a civil war or large-scale air strikes or special operators or supporting other regional powers with limited direct support. But unless Saddam Hussein started hugging kittens, Kurds, and Kuwaitis, America would've done something to finish him.

So when does the US plan to invade N. Korea and overthrow the Kim dynasty?

Just because you're the pariah in international relations doesn't mean the US is going to come in your frontdoor guns blazing. If that were the case America would be at war with half the planet. The US simply doesn't have the capacity for such a thing. Consider how much of a hit to the US the Iraq & Afghan Wars and their subsequent occupations were.
 
So when does the US plan to invade N. Korea and overthrow the Kim dynasty?

Just because you're the pariah in international relations doesn't mean the US is going to come in your frontdoor guns blazing. If that were the case America would be at war with half the planet. The US simply doesn't have the capacity for such a thing. Consider how much of a hit to the US the Iraq & Afghan Wars and their subsequent occupations were.

Being an international pariah is one thing. In 2000, the US had taken military action against Iraq on seven separate occasions in the past 10 years including a major campaign, the no-fly zones, and air strikes of varying intensities. President Clinton began openly funding Iraqi opposition groups 1998.

After giving the US all this trouble for over a decade, Iraq stepping one toe out of line in the early 2000s would've meant regime change, period. I don't think the American people would've accepted any alternatives, he had been a problem for simply too long. Again, this doesn't mean an invasion and occupation, but some form of action against Iraq with the intent of Saddam's ouster was inevitable in the aughts unless Saddam seriously changed his ways fast.
 

dead_wolf

Banned
Being an international pariah is one thing. In 2000, the US had taken military action against Iraq on seven separate occasions in the past 10 years including a major campaign, the no-fly zones, and air strikes of varying intensities. President Clinton began openly funding Iraqi opposition groups 1998.

After giving the US all this trouble for over a decade, Iraq stepping one toe out of line in the early 2000s would've meant regime change, period. I don't think the American people would've accepted any alternatives, he had been a problem for simply too long. Again, this doesn't mean an invasion and occupation, but some form of action against Iraq with the intent of Saddam's ouster was inevitable in the aughts unless Saddam seriously changed his ways fast.

And how exactly did Iraq "step a toe out of line" prior to the 2003 Invasion? As Admiral Ackbar & Plumber already pointed out the push for the Iraq war came primarily from personal/political/business considerations of high ranking members of the Bush administration. Those people certainly aren't going to be in any position of power in a Gore presidency.
 
And how exactly did Iraq "step a toe out of line" prior to the 2003 Invasion? As Admiral Ackbar & Plumber already pointed out the push for the Iraq war came primarily from personal/political/business considerations of high ranking members of the Bush administration. Those people certainly aren't going to be in any position of power in a Gore presidency.

Iraq didn't but that's not my argument. Considering Saddam's past record, I find it likely that something would've come up in the decade, especially if we butterfly 9/11(If anything, 9/11 caused Saddam to take a few steps back, knowing that he would be the next target of the US).

I'm not talking about the build-up to the 2003 invasion nearly as much as I am extrapolating Saddam's record in the 1990s to a TL where the 2003 invasion never happened.
 
Well, the big question for any potential Gore presidency is always going to be 9/11. If it still happens (and I'm inclined to believe it will), we have a couple issues. Firstly, Afghanistan will be the foreign policy focus of the Gore presidency. Hunting down Osama and then rebuilding Afghanistan will be a full time job, and satisfy any liberal hawks. After all, most of the more interventionist liberals focused on the humanitarian concerns in Iraq, which also play into the Taliban in Afghanistan. Gore seems unlikely to want to take on a second war while Afghanistan is still ongoing, so that will absorb America's energy.

One key difference between the regimes is that the neoconservatives and other hawks who strongly influenced the Bush administration policy towards Iraq tended to focus on states as the sole actors. You saw this in the rhetoric of the time; part of the effort to conflate Osama and Saddam was to suggest that we had to defeat Iraq or else they would provide a "safe haven" for Al Qaeda, and the focus on the "Axis of Evil" and state sponsors of terror. You also saw a massive drop in interest in the Afghan War once the Taliban were ousted from power. In both cases, it was symptomatic of the belief that states were the actors that mattered, while ignoring the ability of nonstate or substate actors (like Al Qaeda) to act on their own. I'd argue that this fundamental blindness is one reason for the decision to focus on Iraq (a traditional state actor), rather than the remnants of Al Qaeda (which, as nonstate actors, were seen as fundamentally irrelevant). The Gore administration (which had more familiarity with Al Qaeda and transnational terrorism in general) wouldn't have this blindspot.
 
Well, the big question for any potential Gore presidency is always going to be 9/11. If it still happens (and I'm inclined to believe it will), we have a couple issues. Firstly, Afghanistan will be the foreign policy focus of the Gore presidency. Hunting down Osama and then rebuilding Afghanistan will be a full time job, and satisfy any liberal hawks. After all, most of the more interventionist liberals focused on the humanitarian concerns in Iraq, which also play into the Taliban in Afghanistan. Gore seems unlikely to want to take on a second war while Afghanistan is still ongoing, so that will absorb America's energy.

One key difference between the regimes is that the neoconservatives and other hawks who strongly influenced the Bush administration policy towards Iraq tended to focus on states as the sole actors. You saw this in the rhetoric of the time; part of the effort to conflate Osama and Saddam was to suggest that we had to defeat Iraq or else they would provide a "safe haven" for Al Qaeda, and the focus on the "Axis of Evil" and state sponsors of terror. You also saw a massive drop in interest in the Afghan War once the Taliban were ousted from power. In both cases, it was symptomatic of the belief that states were the actors that mattered, while ignoring the ability of nonstate or substate actors (like Al Qaeda) to act on their own. I'd argue that this fundamental blindness is one reason for the decision to focus on Iraq (a traditional state actor), rather than the remnants of Al Qaeda (which, as nonstate actors, were seen as fundamentally irrelevant). The Gore administration (which had more familiarity with Al Qaeda and transnational terrorism in general) wouldn't have this blindspot.

This is a fascinating post and I think it makes a pretty good case - especially the rhetoric bits. That's not something I ever hit on on myself, but it seems very obvious looking back.
 
People forget that the Clinton Admin. that Gore was a key part of had launched three major bombing campaigns against Iraq and seriously considered invading in 1998

In fact, one could make a strong argument that the only thing preventing an invasion led by the Clinton Admin. was the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

Clinton had to use his political currency to stay in office and couldn't lobby for an invasion and he was additionally worried about being seen to "wag the dog" (promote a war to distract from the scandal).
 
As well we have to consider that there might not even be a 9/11 under a Gore Presidency - terrorism had always been a high priority under the Clinton admin, something which Gore would have likely continued, and something which the W. Bush administration had scaled back considerably in its first year prior to 9/11.

There would have been a 9/11 under Gore. I was actually reading some interesting things saying that 9/11 would undermine Gore though. This is because the blame for the intelligence failures would fall on him and the Democrats and so he would be unlikely to win a second term.
 
The planning for 9-11 had already taken place before Bush took office. Some of the hijackers were IIRC already inside the United States by then.

The Clinton Admin. "concentration on terrorism" was largely an illusion. He never even visited the WTC after the car bombing in 1993.
 
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