The British Shogunate

Hey, I was wishing to inquire the plausability of Japan being a similar case to the British Raj considering pre 1920's Britain and Japan had very good relations ( the Japanese navy being trained by British officers and such ) so is it possible maybe after 1850 Japan being colonised, or partially colonised with Protectorates led by local shoguns... or even a divided Japan with different islands being colonised by different nations? Just thought a British empire with India as its jewel and Japan as its sword was a cool idea :D
 
Hey, I was wishing to inquire the plausability of Japan being a similar case to the British Raj considering pre 1920's Britain and Japan had very good relations ( the Japanese navy being trained by British officers and such ) so is it possible maybe after 1850 Japan being colonised, or partially colonised with Protectorates led by local shoguns... or even a divided Japan with different islands being colonised by different nations? Just thought a British empire with India as its jewel and Japan as its sword was a cool idea :D
I'd say that most of Honshu is unlikely to fall under foreign occupation, it's densely populated and very, very integrated. Also, keep in mind that by 1850, Japan had been ruled by the Tokugawa bakufu for over two centuries, and there was probably little incentive to rock that boat.

Shimazu on the other hand is a totally different matter: it was considered a backwards place by the Japanese, and was always given a lot more free reign than the rest of Japan, essentially being the door to the outside world (even during isolationism). From there, it's not entirely unlikely that a foreign power funds and supports one Daimyo over another (probably Satsuma, since it was the most prominent) and has him bring the entire island under his control, and then having him be the "puppet" so to speak.

Still, I can't see that lasting very long once the central government decides to reestablish control, unless this occurs far back enough that it is essentially a different country (maybe the Dutch, Portuguese or Spanish decide to take a far more active role in Satsuma than they did OTL in the XVIth century).
 
You probably COULD given sufficient incentive to bother. That's going to be the problem - the size and strength of the armies needed, and the necessity of first forcing the place open to trading (always preceding colonisation)

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
You know, it has always been a favourite alternate history idea of mine concerning this.

Like, what would the world's colonial empires have grown to had they kept expanding? Imagine no first world war; could the European powers grabbed anymore territory?

Japan has always been a favourite of mine. I kind of imagined some of the islands being grabbed by Europe, but leaving Honshu and Hokkaido alone. I once made a map where The British controled Kyushu, the Germans had Shikoku the Spanish controlled the Ryuku Islands and Taiwan and Korea was Portuguese. Didn't know how to make it plausible at that point, but it was fun. If I found a timeline on a colonial Japan, I would definately read it.
 
You know, it has always been a favourite alternate history idea of mine concerning this.

Like, what would the world's colonial empires have grown to had they kept expanding? Imagine no first world war; could the European powers grabbed anymore territory?

Japan has always been a favourite of mine. I kind of imagined some of the islands being grabbed by Europe, but leaving Honshu and Hokkaido alone. I once made a map where The British controled Kyushu, the Germans had Shikoku the Spanish controlled the Ryuku Islands and Taiwan and Korea was Portuguese. Didn't know how to make it plausible at that point, but it was fun. If I found a timeline on a colonial Japan, I would definately read it.
By 1914 its not on, though you never know about China and what might or might not have happened there, considering the wide spheres of influence that the powers had there

Honshu is the powerbase of the Tokugawa clan and its allies, but Hokkaido would be as much up for grabs as anywhere.

European intervention in the wars around the Meiji restoration could achieve something, perhaps, with landings to support one side or the other - eg if French support for the Shogun leads to a defeat of imperial forces, then there could be British landings in Kagoshima to support the latter

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Perhaps the British support some sort of coo backing a particular Warlord meanwhile controlling the lesser islands directly ( as has been said ), the Warlord then controlling the rest as his domain answering to the British crown alone. Later on you could have during the opium war and such the Japanese re-swearing their loyalty to the British unconditionally that they will fight for there cause as long as opium never touches Japan. I could see this going very well for the British who could use Japanese troops to great effect in China since they don't have to go nowhere near as far. This will lead to more investment in China which will pay for Japanese investment and such, leading to large Anglo-Nipponese army and navy establishment in the Pacific giving the British a sphere of influence in asia unparalled. Also because of Japanese custom at the time the Japanese are likely to be completely hateful of the British or deathly loyal, and for the purpose of this Britwank deathly loyal is cool :D especially since the British will be helping Japan increase military superiority in combat. Just an idea.


Victoria - Empress of all Shoguns :p
 
Hey, I was wishing to inquire the plausability of Japan being a similar case to the British Raj considering pre 1920's Britain and Japan had very good relations ( the Japanese navy being trained by British officers and such ) so is it possible maybe after 1850 Japan being colonised, or partially colonised with Protectorates led by local shoguns... or even a divided Japan with different islands being colonised by different nations? Just thought a British empire with India as its jewel and Japan as its sword was a cool idea :D
Very unlikely.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Maybe you could have the British decide to out-and-out occupy Satsuma in the aftermath of the Anglo-Satsuma War, then maybe move on the dominate the whole of Kyushu. Since the Tokugawa Shogunate was in the final stages of decay around this time, I could easily see the British (now with a solid foot in the door) maybe try and take advantage of the situation.
 
To me, the best way to do this is somehow to spur the Japanese moving out of isolation during the formative years of the East India Company in India. Really by the time that the EIC has formalised control there it's not so likely as their methods are starting to change, and by the time of the Indian Mutiny and the end of the Company it's far less likely because the British government wasn't nearly as inclined to make vassal states of local lords as the EIC had done. If you can take Japan out of isolation at a point when the EIC is ambitiously trying to expand then there is every opportunity for them to make deals with local daimyos and form an alliance/vassal system as in India. This also requires a relatively weak shogunate, however, as the British even under the Company weren't really inclined to barge into stable countries to make destabilising deals with local lords - rather they preferred to find areas where the region was already in a state of flux with no established overall control, manoeuvring themselves into supremacy ostensibly for the sake of pacifying and stabilising the region.

However, I don't know enough about Japanese history to say if the 18th century had a period of particularly weak shogunates. I suspect not, but who knows.
 
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