The british Armada and the Invasion of Spain

we know from history that the Spanish Empire almost succeded in invading the UK in 1588 had it not been for freaky weather.

Up til 1588 was a major Naval Power in Europe and as History Channel claims more powerfull than the UK at that time.

I wonder is it possible with a p.o.d. to make the UK the powerfull naval empire at that time?

Maybe having Elizabeth the first wanting to invade Spain in 1588?
 
It wasn't the United Kingdom yet, man. Just England.

As for an English invasion of Spain, that'd be awful tricky. England had, IOTL, done some raiding of the Spanish shoreline, and there was that Cadiz business, but that was about all they ever pulled off. Maybe if 1572 had gone differently and France had gone to the Huguenots, a combined Anglo-French attack could've done something, but then again if France had gone Protestant then it's likely there would've been no Anglo-Spanish war at the time anyways.
 

Valdemar II

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Spain was one of Europe richest states, with a great army, a enourmous Empire, on the technological forefront of Europe, while England was not a minor state, but in no way the state it would become later, which was slowly building up a strong navy, but had a quite inferior army. The result of British invasion of USA would be a disaster, It army would be crushed, and maybe even its navy, but with a little luck we see the fleet survive. But for Elizabeth such a invasion would be a political disaster, create doubt about her ability to rule and in worst case result in a coup against her.
 
we know from history that the Spanish Empire almost succeded in invading the UK in 1588 had it not been for freaky weather.

Up til 1588 was a major Naval Power in Europe and as History Channel claims more powerfull than the UK at that time.

I wonder is it possible with a p.o.d. to make the UK the powerfull naval empire at that time?

Maybe having Elizabeth the first wanting to invade Spain in 1588?
One nitpick before I respond to your question. Your use of UK is wrong. Only England was under threat, and Scotland wouldn't be united with England until after Elizabeth's death, and even then it was only personal union. The United Kingdom of Great Britain only exists after 1707.

Now to the question at hand:
Spain WAS more powerfull than England at the time. Population wise, it had around a million more people in it, along with the wealth of the Americas in it.

The Spanish Armada was massive for the time. Everyone was awed by it, but it was damn expensive. And I mean expensive. This fact itself doesn't lend itself well to the fiscally conservative Elizabeth, who I don't think would be caught dead wasting that much treasury money to invade a solidly catholic Spain.

Religious reasons are also a problem. Spain was solidly catholic for a number of reasons. One, the popular piety movement of the 15th and 16th centuries took the wind out of any protestant sails, and two, catholicism was associated with victory over the moors (a very proto nationalism in post reconquista Spain). England on the other hand was not solidly protestant. When Elizabeth inherited the throne, the majority of Englishmen were still catholic (this would change by the end of her reign). The English monarchy has nothing to gain by bringing more catholics under their wing.

The gist of what I'm saying is that you would never catch Elizabeth actually trying to conqer Spain. She didn't have the money to do it and even if she had, she still wouldn't invade. Religiously, Spain had cause and England didn't. English protestantism was all about of securing itself from Papal control and influence, while Spanish Catholicism was still caught up in the crusading reconquering spirit.

I'm not saying that an English Armada couldn't be launched in the late 16th century, but you need an earlier POD. My best bet would be some kind of semi victory in the Hundred Years War with England somehow inheriting the wealth of Burgundy instead of the Hapsburgs.
 

perfectgeneral

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The Drake-Norris Expedition of 1589

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Armada

The English Armada (also known as the Counter Armada, or the Drake-Norris Expedition) was a fleet of warships sent to the Iberian coast by Queen Elizabeth I of England in 1589, during the Anglo-Spanish War (1585–1604). It was led by Sir Francis Drake as admiral and Sir John Norreys as general, and failed to drive home the advantage England had won upon the dispersal of the Spanish Armada in the previous year. The campaign resulted in defeat and eventually to a withdrawal with heavy losses both in lives and ships.
Sometimes, I swear, people do no research whatsoever before expressing a view on English history. :rolleyes:;)

This ham-fisted armada could have been far more successful given the odd tweak here and there.

First stop Santander, then Lisbon, then the Azores.

The planning, co-ordination and preparation could have been better, the execution was a bit timid and with more success this could have been a fatal blow at the heart of Spain.

Most of the Spanish fleet were laid up for repairs in Santander. A raid on this port would have resulted in a long term reduction in Spanish naval power. If ships nearing completion could be captured it would mean a boost to English naval power too. The armada, for various reasons, bypassed Santander and sailed on to attack Carunna.

Lisbon was ripe for rebellion when the armada set off. Only a protracted siege of the strategically unimportant upper town of Carunna gave the Spanish warning and time to reinforce Lisbon before they got there. Furthermore Drake divided his naval forces from the army besieging Lisbon making success more unlikely.

By the time the issue of the third objective arose, the English were dissipated by campaigning and disease. The Spanish were now fully alert to the need to defend in force and the Azores were impossible to take.

You could blame all this on a scapegoat and make the exclusion of said scapegoat your POD. How about the Earl of Essex? Elizabeth expressly ordered that he should not accompany the expedition.

The long term consequences of this could be huge. If James IV/I had better finances, might he have treated parliament better? Might Henry Fredrick, Prince of Wales lived beyond 1612, given a wealthier household or even just butterflies? An earlier settlement of much of America by the English (British under James) might have a different culture, especially if the civil war doesn't take place later.
 
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perfectgeneral

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Is this gap between the Spanish Armada and the English Civil War a period of no interest to AH.commers or has it all been done before?
 
The best-case scenario for the English Armada was always only going to be Portugal declaring independence, upon which it would become a state under siege and quite possibly go under beneath the tides of the Spanish army, and Elizabeth and all involved knew it. England had no ability to take over Spain and no ability to knock chunks out of their rival, so they never intended to. The English Armada was designed for the exact same reason as Drake's voyage to the Americas and the ships sailing around trying to capture Spanish treasure galleons. It was never about capturing land and usurping Spain's position as number 1 power in Europe. It was all about annoying Spain, disrupting their economy and forcing them to spend costly time and money recovering from setbacks. For the same reason, the German U-Boats/submarines in World Wars One and Two were never going to conquer the UK but they could ruin the British economy and isolate it from supplies (best-case scenario).

In order to meet the actual OP's suggestion (England the most powerful naval empire of the time) we'd need to go back several hundred years and change events to favour England. England winning this war wouldn't have been possible with circumstances as they were in 1588.
 
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