The Blois, Kings of England

Is it possible that the House de Blois manages to hold onto the kingdom of England? Could Stephen de Blois' son Eustace live and successfully hold onto the throne? Or could his son William inherit after his brother's death? If so, what happens?
 
For one, female line succession is barred, or at least relegated to a very secondary position (ie, uncles inheriting ahead of nieces and the like).
 
For one, female line succession is barred, or at least relegated to a very secondary position (ie, uncles inheriting ahead of nieces and the like).

Well, Stephen was King, and was more of an English leader than his competitor, Matilde, was.
 
Well, Stephen was King, and was more of an English leader than his competitor, Matilde, was.

He was still a Usurper (yea and i get how hypcritical that sounds)

The only way for a Blois succesion to ever happen really is if they win the Anarchy outright....otherwise it'll just continue down the next generation, no matter if Eustace survives or not
 
He was still a Usurper (yea and i get how hypcritical that sounds)

The only way for a Blois succesion to ever happen really is if they win the Anarchy outright....otherwise it'll just continue down the next generation, no matter if Eustace survives or not

That makes sense. But if he won, would the Blois hold the throne for long, or would it fall apart soon after. I can see maybe 100 of years of Blois, leading to who knows what in the future.
 
That makes sense. But if he won, would the Blois hold the throne for long, or would it fall apart soon after. I can see maybe 100 of years of Blois, leading to who knows what in the future.
Surely that would depend on the quality of later Blois rulers?

It's not like William the Conqueror was either English or the rightful king, but his line continues as a monarch to this day, with only a few deviations. If the later de Blois manage to solidify their rule, they could keep it.

And of course, while female succession would be barred, inheritance through the female line would be possible (since Stephen himself traced his claim through his mother). But I suppose you could also have a situation like Anglo-Saxon England (or the later HRE), where succession is generally dynastic, but nominally elective, relying on the consent of the barons.
 
That makes sense. But if he won, would the Blois hold the throne for long, or would it fall apart soon after. I can see maybe 100 of years of Blois, leading to who knows what in the future.


He may have held England, but he would not be Duke of Normandy :eek: - wait, scratch that he did hold it, but only for a decade or so, which is actually surprising:confused:. 1135-1144.
Stephen was fully regarded as a usurper, and for better or worse, Geoffrey of Anjou held that title once he conquered it. Then it went to his son, Henry Plantagenet (OTL Henry II). And Louis VII fully supported the Anjou/Plantagenet family.


As jkarr said, the only real way for Stephen to be successful was for him to win the Anarchy outright. Practically capturing Matilda would be the winning point. Stephen did have the support of the nobility when he took the crown - and he did get there first. ;)
 
Perhaps if we butterfly Matilda's second marriage to Anjou? Have her produce a shortlived son with Emperor Henry and then marry Thierry/Theodoric of Flanders.
Since Thierry is Stephen's overlord and we have a young Henry as heir this may forestall the Anarchy a bit in favour of a Matilda-Thierry regency.
Give Thierry and Matilda daughters and Henry dying we may see a late Stephen claim followed by later marriage of his heir to her eldest daughter and voila a Blesevin dynasty.

Here's an idea of the lineage ;)
descent_of_william_iv_of_england_and_ireland_by_ahstheprofessor-d5mc273.png
 
10-15 years of butterflies may mean Eustace is someone else,. I mean, young king Henry would be born around 1115. Eustace was born in 1130.

plus i think that name is terrible.

The idea of Matilda having a German heir to the HRE is appealing, I mean, maybe he cannot get the support to take on his claim of the English throne and thus Stepehen gets it anyway.
 
First, Empress Matilda's mother was Henry's first wife, Edith of Scotland. Edith changed her name to Matilda upon her marriage.

Second, if Empress Matilda had a son with HRE Henry V, wouldn't she be more interested in trying to make him HRE than King of England? Remember, she was raised in Germany from a young age and was rather snobbish about it. She'd probably want Normandy, but I don't know that she'd try all that hard to get England if she already had the Empire. Maybe a marriage would be in store for young Henry with one of Stephen's daughters (he had three Matilda, Marie, and Adela).

Third, Stephen actually had Matilda trapped in Arundel Castle at the beginning of the Anarchy, but he let her go. Of course, Stephen himself was captured later on at the Battle of Lincoln. He was freed through the efforts of his wife, yet another Matilda. Personally, I've always thought she should've left him there and conducted the war herself. She was far more ruthless than he.

And fourth, the name Eustace comes from his maternal grandfather, Eustace of Boulogne. I agree it's a terrible name (sorry to all the Eustaces out there), but it's unlikely he'd have been named something else unless he had a different mother.
 
Second, if Empress Matilda had a son with HRE Henry V, wouldn't she be more interested in trying to make him HRE than King of England? Remember, she was raised in Germany from a young age and was rather snobbish about it. She'd probably want Normandy, but I don't know that she'd try all that hard to get England if she already had the Empire.

See, i would agree with this. But i would think it depends on how long the Salian Henry V lives, TBH, and whether or not the germans actually think that adding England to their lands is worthwhile.
 
See, i would agree with this. But i would think it depends on how long the Salian Henry V lives, TBH, and whether or not the germans actually think that adding England to their lands is worthwhile.

True.

Thinking about it, I think the whole thing would devolve into a big war over the Norman succession with England being a fringe benefit if it factored into it at all. You'd have Stephen and Matilda as well as Stephen's brothers, especially Theobald of Champagne, fighting over it with Geoffrey of Anjou and Conan of Brittany joining in just because. And also add in the King of France, probably supporting Stephen or another brother that isn't Theobald.

Also, David of Scotland might take the opportunity to expand his borders. The Welsh would probably do the same.

In other words, complete chaos. :)

With all of this going on, maybe it would be more advantageous for young HRE Henry VI to marry a daughter of Theobald rather than a daughter of Stephen.
 
Also, David of Scotland might take the opportunity to expand his borders. The Welsh would probably do the same.

.
He did that anyway in OTL. Northumbria and Cumbria he practically dominated. He just had to give it all up to Henry II when he arrived, or his son did anyway.

Thinking about it, I think the whole thing would devolve into a big war over the Norman succession with England being a fringe benefit if it factored into it at all. You'd have Stephen and Matilda as well as Stephen's brothers, especially Theobald of Champagne, fighting over it with Geoffrey of Anjou and Conan of Brittany joining in just because. And also add in the King of France, probably supporting Stephen or another brother that isn't Theobald.

Quite the mess, isn't it? Especially considering that Geoffrey of Anjou's claim was strengthened OTL by his marriage to Matilda, this time around it is weaker. But considering he was a conniving bastard, and OTL Henry II certainly inherited that, i do not think much would actually change.

Louis Vi and Louis VII. They would interfere and would most likley take the Duchy away from whoever holds the title and give it to someone else. In France, the most likely candidate would be Geoffrey of Anjou, unless they reimburse it to the crown like the English did with House Lancaster. French heir to the Throne is Duke of Normandy.

The problem is Matilda though. Would her son, ATL Henry VI, actually try for England, given that he is a German in every way.
 
First, Empress Matilda's mother was Henry's first wife, Edith of Scotland. Edith changed her name to Matilda upon her marriage.

Second, if Empress Matilda had a son with HRE Henry V, wouldn't she be more interested in trying to make him HRE than King of England? Remember, she was raised in Germany from a young age and was rather snobbish about it. She'd probably want Normandy, but I don't know that she'd try all that hard to get England if she already had the Empire. Maybe a marriage would be in store for young Henry with one of Stephen's daughters (he had three Matilda, Marie, and Adela).

Third, Stephen actually had Matilda trapped in Arundel Castle at the beginning of the Anarchy, but he let her go. Of course, Stephen himself was captured later on at the Battle of Lincoln. He was freed through the efforts of his wife, yet another Matilda. Personally, I've always thought she should've left him there and conducted the war herself. She was far more ruthless than he.

And fourth, the name Eustace comes from his maternal grandfather, Eustace of Boulogne. I agree it's a terrible name (sorry to all the Eustaces out there), but it's unlikely he'd have been named something else unless he had a different mother.

Ah yes, Edith :eek:

Quite the mess, isn't it? Especially considering that Geoffrey of Anjou's claim was strengthened OTL by his marriage to Matilda, this time around it is weaker. But considering he was a conniving bastard, and OTL Henry II certainly inherited that, i do not think much would actually change.

Louis Vi and Louis VII. They would interfere and would most likley take the Duchy away from whoever holds the title and give it to someone else. In France, the most likely candidate would be Geoffrey of Anjou, unless they reimburse it to the crown like the English did with House Lancaster. French heir to the Throne is Duke of Normandy.

The problem is Matilda though. Would her son, ATL Henry VI, actually try for England, given that he is a German in every way.

Setting aside young Henry's survival to adulthood or parenthood, would the Louis's decide on splitting the Duchy?
 
Ironically, Stephen ruled Boulogne as a result of inheritance through the female line, and eventually it was inherited by his daughter and granddaughter.

I like the name Eustace.
 
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