The Bismarck survives

Ghost8472

Banned
What if the torpedo that damaged the Bismarck didnt hit and the ship managed to get safely into a French harbour.

I imagine it would be bad for morale for the Brits: Bismarck destroys Hood and then escaped. But would there be any long term consequences?
 

Pangur

Donor
It would have had to have made its way to a port with a dry dock that was big enough for the ship. The RAF would have done there level best to sink the Bismark in port and/or flatten the dry dock. If by chance it survived it may well have taken part in the channel dash. To be honest the Bismark was sunk from the day it left Germany, the only question was where
 
For one, that port would for the remainder of the period during which Bismarck is placed there going to be the target for Bomber command, commando raids a'la St. Nazaire and Trondheim raid and Taranto style raids by FAA. Until any of these succeed in sinking Bismarck, thre battleships of RN will be permanently based within interception distance, probably in some port in UK, which gives six high class vessels (including those needed for Tirpitz) immobilized at least until US comes into war and probably 12 to 18 subs to be permanently stationed in vicinity.

What effects this has on Med, Pacific and other theaters can be disputed. However, I doubt Bismarck will attempt something like what the twins pulled off, or if she do, she will be sunk. I doubt it will significantly change the outcome, as by 1942, US will bring some of their ships. Germans also might waste some more resources on their surface ships, leading to less u-boats available? And yes, PoW will be saved.
 
Russians still take Berlin in early May 1945:rolleyes:.

Bismarck gets bombed every other day in Brest harbour by the RAF and suffers a few hits. Then in Feb 1942 joins in the channel dash and goes into repair in Germany and spends months being bombed and having to patch up aacumulated damage. Finally goes to Norway to join the Tirpitz but can't come out because the RN and USN are watching. The ship is bombed, attacked by midget subs and possibly outright commando raids and is eventually sunk by Tall Boy bombs.
 
The Bismarck had taken critical damage the HMS Prince Of Wales, which would have seen her laid up for months at least. And it's questionable whether she'd have reached Brest anyway, The HMS Ark Royal would have got off probably at least one more flight of Swordfish before Bismarck was within range of German fighter cover.
 
... thre battleships of RN will be permanently based within interception distance, probably in some port in UK, which gives six high class vessels (including those needed for Tirpitz) immobilized at least until US comes into war and probably 12 to 18 subs to be permanently stationed in vicinity.

The Home Fleet had something like a minimum of six battleships anyway, and more often 12-15 off the top of my head. I don't think Bismark's continued existence will change it's composition markedly, the RN outnumbered the Kriegsmarine surface fleet so much that it was just absurd.
 
I can't imagine Bismark would ever be able to leave France if she manages to arrive. She is a bit slower than the Sharnhorst+Geisenau+PE and the whole Cerebus operation would have to be that much bigger. I suspect if Germany tried that with all 4 it would turn out differently.

Advantages to Germany if the Bismarck limps into French Atlantic port and is stuck there though:

1) It would inspire even more bombing of Brest/St. Nazaire than OTL, as long as the German's can keep the Bismarck worth bombing it acts as a sump for bombs that would be otherwise hitting Germany. And since you know the Britsh are going to bomb that one point, ring flak around it to make the attrition heavy for the bombers.

2) It would be hard to pull off the St. Nazaire commando raid if the Bismarck was actually in the dry dock at the time.

3) Experienced crew, officers and the ships guns would have been available even if the Bismarck was never operational again. (i.e. Lutjens would have been better than Bey at North Cape)

4) Perhaps the Germans would be less cautious in future battles like the Barents Sea battle without the Bismarck being sunk.

5) Perhaps the scrap the fleet order after the Barents Sea battle won't happen if the German surface navy has more prestige after the Bismarck makes it to port. (perhaps this is actually a disadvantage)

Considering the Geisenau never again was operational after Cerebus, the Prinz Eugen ony in the Baltic and the Sharnhorst not until 43. It would have been better for Germany just to keep whatever ships she can operational in France for as long as she can to maintain some sort of threat. If the Germans could keep the Prinz Eugen alone operational it might have been interesting if she was deployed to help bring in one of the blockade runners (sort of like OTL battle of Biscay but bigger).
 
The Home Fleet had something like a minimum of six battleships anyway, and more often 12-15 off the top of my head. I don't think Bismark's continued existence will change it's composition markedly, the RN outnumbered the Kriegsmarine surface fleet so much that it was just absurd.

The entire Royal Navy only had a maximum of 15, to 16 battleships and battlecruisers at its peak in commission, as it also lost five in combat, while only constructing just five, which effectively replaced the lost ones. HMS Vanguard is not relevant, as she was basically commissioned after the end of the war. As the Homefleet was the main fleet, it had a maximum of just five capital ships at best, when the war started and fewer, when the war escalated, simply due to other requirements elsewhere. The second strongest fleet was the Mediteranean Fleet, with three battleships at its peak, with the other, mostly old ones relegated to either refitting, or repairing in a yard, or on convoy duties assigned to no fleet techincally.
 
As noted, four modern surface raiders at Brest (including the ship that humiliated the RN and the Prinz Eugen) would certainly resut in a much heavier British effort to eliminate them by bombing. On the other hand, Raeder's surface fleet would have a much higher standing in Hitlerian circles and you might see Germany commit much more to their continued defense and basing in France. Kiel, after all was not a whole lot farther from RAF bases than Brest. Also, Bismarck's sucess in sinking Hood and eluding the RN might lead to a similar sortie by Tirpitz and one or more of the Lutzows, with these ships also ending up in France. Germany had little need for heavy ships in the Baltic, and as history showed they were of little use (except as decoys) in stopping the Murmansk Runs from their Nowegian bases. Perhaps Graf Zeppelin might even be finished in 1941-42, giving Germany at least the appearance of a naval air arm. As a "fleet in being" even if constantly damaged by RAF attacks, two modern battleships, two modern "battlecruisers: and several cruisers at Brest would give Germany the appearance of a naval presence in the Atlantic that would divert a lot of RAF and USAAF attention. Somehow get the never finished Graf Zeppelin there and it could be interesting. All these ships would eventually end up sitting on the mud of the harbor bottom but that's what happened to them anyway.
 
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