The Biden Express: Derailed
- Thread starter Whanztastic
- Start date
- Status
Richard Thornburgh Administration
President – Richard Thornburgh (PA)
Vice President – Terry Branstad (IA)
Chairman of the Cabinet – James Baker (TX)
Secretary of State – Jeane Kirkpatrick (OK)
Secretary of the Treasury – Al D'Amato (NY)
Secretary of Defense – Paul O'Neill (PA)
Attorney General – Ken Starr (VA)
Secretary of the Interior – Jake Garn (UT)
Secretary of Agriculture – Ann Veneman (CA)
Secretary of Commerce – Pierre DuPont (DE)
Secretary of Labor – Elizabeth Dole (NC)
Secretary of Health and Human Services – Paul Tsongas (MA)
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development – Jack Kemp (NY)
Secretary of Transportation – James R. Thompson (IL)
Secretary of Energy – George W. Bush (TX)
Secretary of Education – Thomas Kean (NJ)
Secretary of Veterans Affairs – Chuck Hagel (VA)
Secretary of Environmental Protection – John R. McKernan, Jr. (ME)
White House Chief of Staff – Mary Matalin (IL)
Trade Representative – Carla Anderson Hills (CA)
Director of the Office of Management and Budget – Richard Darman (NC)
Ambassador to the United Nations – Thomas Pickering
Director of Central Intelligence – George Tenet
Director of National Drug Control Policy – Bill Bennett (NY)
National Security Advisor – Paul Wolfowitz (MD)
Solicitor General – John Roberts (IN)
President – Richard Thornburgh (PA)
Vice President – Terry Branstad (IA)
Chairman of the Cabinet – James Baker (TX)
Secretary of State – Jeane Kirkpatrick (OK)
Secretary of the Treasury – Al D'Amato (NY)
Secretary of Defense – Paul O'Neill (PA)
Attorney General – Ken Starr (VA)
Secretary of the Interior – Jake Garn (UT)
Secretary of Agriculture – Ann Veneman (CA)
Secretary of Commerce – Pierre DuPont (DE)
Secretary of Labor – Elizabeth Dole (NC)
Secretary of Health and Human Services – Paul Tsongas (MA)
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development – Jack Kemp (NY)
Secretary of Transportation – James R. Thompson (IL)
Secretary of Energy – George W. Bush (TX)
Secretary of Education – Thomas Kean (NJ)
Secretary of Veterans Affairs – Chuck Hagel (VA)
Secretary of Environmental Protection – John R. McKernan, Jr. (ME)
White House Chief of Staff – Mary Matalin (IL)
Trade Representative – Carla Anderson Hills (CA)
Director of the Office of Management and Budget – Richard Darman (NC)
Ambassador to the United Nations – Thomas Pickering
Director of Central Intelligence – George Tenet
Director of National Drug Control Policy – Bill Bennett (NY)
National Security Advisor – Paul Wolfowitz (MD)
Solicitor General – John Roberts (IN)
Last edited:
Orville_third
Banned
Kirkpatrick would be a bad choice, and Starr would be a bit questionable. Still, it's better than some cabinets.
Ken Starr as the AG? Oh boy.
Tsongas was from Massachusetts not Pennsylvania.
Paul Wolfowitz as the National Security Advisor? I wonder what neo-con thing he'll have Thornburgh do?
Would be interesting to John Roberts winds up defending Thornburghcare in court. Would he try to limit the Commerce cause in his argument?
Tsongas was from Massachusetts not Pennsylvania.
Paul Wolfowitz as the National Security Advisor? I wonder what neo-con thing he'll have Thornburgh do?
Would be interesting to John Roberts winds up defending Thornburghcare in court. Would he try to limit the Commerce cause in his argument?
Might as well simplify everything and just make Tsongas a Republican.
Was he really that conservative?
Wolfowitz et al were able to wag the dog with Bush, but Thornburgh might not be so easily led. O'Neill in Defense is (hopefully) a good ally for fostering a reasonable foreign policy.
Actually, I had no idea O'Neill was interested in Defense. He would've made a fantastic HHS secretary ITTL (consider his ideas on tying health reform to tort reform,) and did honestly a pretty solid job in Treasury IOTL. His work in Africa stands out as one of the few things all liberals should recognize as an achievement of the Bush administration.
But back to foreign policy, you've got Wolfowitz and Kirkpatrick firmly in the neocon camp, and O'Neill and Pickering in the sanity camp. Thornburgh's no Bush and Branstad's no Cheney, so I'm hopeful things won't turn terribly terrible.
William Rehnquist
John Paul Stevens
Sandra Day O'Connor
Antonin Scalia
Anthony Kennedy
Dale Bumpers
Amalya Lyle Kearse
José A. Cabranes
Ruth Bader Ginsburg
There you go Expat.
John Paul Stevens
Sandra Day O'Connor
Antonin Scalia
Anthony Kennedy
Dale Bumpers
Amalya Lyle Kearse
José A. Cabranes
Ruth Bader Ginsburg
There you go Expat.
Thanks, yup. Will explain that.
The best person doesn't always get the job.
Fixed.
Wolfowitz and Kirkpatrick, they may but heads with Baker and O'Neill ...
Thanks, fixed.
Seemed like a good fit for the time.
Might as well simplify everything and just make Tsongas a Republican.
He was on fiscal policy (balanced budget sort of person) and he has a stake in health care reform. He seemed like a good pick to be the token Democrat.
Haha I wonder if I can make that happen.
Thanks,
Good spotting. O'Neill was offered SecDef in the HWBush White House IOTL or at least considered. ITTL with O'Neill in Pittsburgh and Thornburgh coming from PA, it seemed like he'd agree. O'Neill certainly is a forgotten member of the Bush WH, despite offering a smoking gun on Iraq (revealed they had been planning an invasion since day 1).
So we have 4 liberals (Kearse, Cabranes, Ginsburg, and Stevens), a liberal moderate (Bumpers), a two conservative moderates (O'Connor, Kennedy) and two conservatives (Rehnquist, Scalia). A much different court to be sure.
Cheers! Huh, so this court has the potential to stay fixed for a while.
Scalia, Kennedy, and Ginsburg are all still on the bench IOTL.
Stevens didn't retire until '10.
O'Connor left in '06.
Rehnquist died in '05.
Cabranes and Bumpers are still active IOTL.
Kearse stepped back in '02, but there's no reason to think she'd do the same ITTL.
That's likely to mean no new appointments this term, next term, or probably even the term after that. Maybe Stevens will look for an earlier exit, but otherwise I'm not sure who would be willing to move up their departure. O'Connor might even stick around longer if there's a Democrat in the White House in '06.
Ah, glad to see this back! Hell of an opening post, too: the Sept 11 fakeout, Biden's letter to Thornburgh, some meta AH discussion. Great stuff all around.
Oh thank god. I just started reading it the other day, actually, so all that Russian talk— and especially "Baker Plan"— was putting me on edge, haha.
Oh thank god. I just started reading it the other day, actually, so all that Russian talk— and especially "Baker Plan"— was putting me on edge, haha.
Interesting cabinet choices. So, a reformed version of the USSR, like what Gorbachev had planned with the New Union Treaty. This'll be as good or maybe even better then the last one. I'm looking forward to more.
State of the TL
---
United States
Finally showing steady growth after the recession, Americans are more optimistic but divided. The troops are beginning to come home from Yugoslavia and the intervention in Somalia has been a success. With the end of the Cold War the next eight years could be a lead up to a new American Century. Outgoing President Biden is well-respected and despite the close election newly inaugurated President Thornburgh has a mandate.
Canada
The Meech Lake Accord passed.
United Kingdom
Prime Minister Norman Tebbit has made massive strides in suppressing the terrorism of the IRA, although a growing number of Britons now voice concerns that perhaps it is now time to talk. Tensions with the continent are stressed however as they express support for Greece when other European Community nations do not. The public is skeptical about further European integration and it is a growing schism within the Conservative Party. The issue of the Maastricht Treaty may exacerbate the problems.
Western Europe/European Community
Developments continue roughly according to events IOTL, save for Greece, and French-German relations were improved due to coordination during the Yugoslav Crisis, with the Franco-German Brigade being a public relations gold mine. But while Greece fights a civil war, they’ve been suspended from the EC and NATO. With changing sentiments and the end of the Cold War, opinion makers are questioning the existence of NATO.
Former Warsaw Pact
The nations are nervous that with the Sovereign Union still on their boarders that the union/empire/federation will revert to its old ways. The newly independent Baltic states are most nervous, looking at the border conflicts in the Caucuses with worry.
Former Yugoslavia
Slovenia and Macedonia are wholly independent, and the newly remodeled Yugoslav Republic has recognized the sovereignty of the Union of Croatia and Bosnia. General Veljko Kadijević and Minister Jovica Stanišić have presented themselves as the saviors of the country, dethroning the “madman” Milošević. With the “state of emergency” ending, Milo Đukanović is the front runner as the next President of Yugoslavia. Croatia and Bosnia is set to vote to approve a new constitution, and after years of fighting peace. The status of Kosovo is still debated, currently occupied by Albania, and a disputed referendum was held for its merging into Albania. American and NATO peacekeepers are still present but are slowly pulling out. The late American Vice President Rudy Perpich is considered a folk hero by Croatians and Bosnians, and Perpich Square in Sarajevo will be a tourist destination in future years.
Sovereign Union
The Union came closer to ruin than much of the public realizes, with a coup against President Mikhail Gorbachev broken up in the final hour of planning. Gorbachev has a friendly relation with his most powerful “junior president” Yury Luzhkov. Gorbachev has called for a constitutional convention to reorganize further, and Presidential elections have been set for 1994, with Gorbachev intending to run for reelection. Still, there is conflict in the south as question arise with regards to Chechnya, Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan’s statuses and borders.
Middle East
Everything is OTL save for Iraq/Saudi Arabia. Saddam is in power but his economy has ground to a halt under US led sanctions and his neighbors have marginalized him, although they are happy to use him as a shield against Iran. Iran itself is seeing slow and steady change under Supreme Leader Montazeri and President Rafsanjani. But conservatives are growing weary of such quick changes.
East Asia
China’s growth is stunted compared to OTL due to less growth and shriveled ties with the west following Tiananmen Square, although Jiang Zemin is still reaching out. Japan’s bubble popped but at a lesser extent than IOTL. They were also the first large economy to follow the United States’ lead in imposing a ‘financial transaction tax’ in attempt to decrease market volatility.
Africa
South African reforms have been so far bolstered by strong support from the previous Biden Administration. Additionally the US led-NATO intervention in Somalia has been successful in its limited goal of ending the famine and distributing food aid.
---
That's what I have for now in an effort to get everybody up to speed, but if there are more specific questions I can try and answer.
---
United States
Finally showing steady growth after the recession, Americans are more optimistic but divided. The troops are beginning to come home from Yugoslavia and the intervention in Somalia has been a success. With the end of the Cold War the next eight years could be a lead up to a new American Century. Outgoing President Biden is well-respected and despite the close election newly inaugurated President Thornburgh has a mandate.
Canada
The Meech Lake Accord passed.
United Kingdom
Prime Minister Norman Tebbit has made massive strides in suppressing the terrorism of the IRA, although a growing number of Britons now voice concerns that perhaps it is now time to talk. Tensions with the continent are stressed however as they express support for Greece when other European Community nations do not. The public is skeptical about further European integration and it is a growing schism within the Conservative Party. The issue of the Maastricht Treaty may exacerbate the problems.
Western Europe/European Community
Developments continue roughly according to events IOTL, save for Greece, and French-German relations were improved due to coordination during the Yugoslav Crisis, with the Franco-German Brigade being a public relations gold mine. But while Greece fights a civil war, they’ve been suspended from the EC and NATO. With changing sentiments and the end of the Cold War, opinion makers are questioning the existence of NATO.
Former Warsaw Pact
The nations are nervous that with the Sovereign Union still on their boarders that the union/empire/federation will revert to its old ways. The newly independent Baltic states are most nervous, looking at the border conflicts in the Caucuses with worry.
Former Yugoslavia
Slovenia and Macedonia are wholly independent, and the newly remodeled Yugoslav Republic has recognized the sovereignty of the Union of Croatia and Bosnia. General Veljko Kadijević and Minister Jovica Stanišić have presented themselves as the saviors of the country, dethroning the “madman” Milošević. With the “state of emergency” ending, Milo Đukanović is the front runner as the next President of Yugoslavia. Croatia and Bosnia is set to vote to approve a new constitution, and after years of fighting peace. The status of Kosovo is still debated, currently occupied by Albania, and a disputed referendum was held for its merging into Albania. American and NATO peacekeepers are still present but are slowly pulling out. The late American Vice President Rudy Perpich is considered a folk hero by Croatians and Bosnians, and Perpich Square in Sarajevo will be a tourist destination in future years.
Sovereign Union
The Union came closer to ruin than much of the public realizes, with a coup against President Mikhail Gorbachev broken up in the final hour of planning. Gorbachev has a friendly relation with his most powerful “junior president” Yury Luzhkov. Gorbachev has called for a constitutional convention to reorganize further, and Presidential elections have been set for 1994, with Gorbachev intending to run for reelection. Still, there is conflict in the south as question arise with regards to Chechnya, Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan’s statuses and borders.
Middle East
Everything is OTL save for Iraq/Saudi Arabia. Saddam is in power but his economy has ground to a halt under US led sanctions and his neighbors have marginalized him, although they are happy to use him as a shield against Iran. Iran itself is seeing slow and steady change under Supreme Leader Montazeri and President Rafsanjani. But conservatives are growing weary of such quick changes.
East Asia
China’s growth is stunted compared to OTL due to less growth and shriveled ties with the west following Tiananmen Square, although Jiang Zemin is still reaching out. Japan’s bubble popped but at a lesser extent than IOTL. They were also the first large economy to follow the United States’ lead in imposing a ‘financial transaction tax’ in attempt to decrease market volatility.
Africa
South African reforms have been so far bolstered by strong support from the previous Biden Administration. Additionally the US led-NATO intervention in Somalia has been successful in its limited goal of ending the famine and distributing food aid.
---
That's what I have for now in an effort to get everybody up to speed, but if there are more specific questions I can try and answer.
- Status