The Biden Express: Derailed

[Kung Fucious]

I'm definitely not a fan of Biden or..........................Obama

That's nice. If you're going to vent about your problems with Biden and/or Obama, someone else's TL probably isn't the place to do it.

You should head to Chat, it's a whole sub-forum devoted to Politics and the like.

 

[DTanza]

I'm definitely not a fan of Biden or..........................Obama

Then go talk about politics in Chat instead of trolling in this thread?

 

[Whanztastic]

Yay! It's back! Sounds like Thornburgh would be the kind of Republican President I would reluctantly respect when looking back. And this 9/11 is definitely preferable to OTL.

Yay! I agree on both counts.

Whanztastic you mad bastard.

A most welcome return! Love everything I'm seeing so far!

Well, perhaps a little worried by what's happening in the Soviet Union. The nomenclature (Sovereign Union) has me hopeful, because it means the Baltics should gain their independence at least. And maybe Georgia and Moldova, possibly following a few...border adjustments? Also, if Armenia's out and Azerbaijan is in, what's that going to do to the N-K conflict?
I should also add that I'm completely biased about Baltics, thanks to my Lithuanian in-laws. I'll try to keep it reigned in...as long as the Lithuanian Dream Team still gets its bronze over the Unified Team in '92.

Fascinating list of legislation there for the Thornburgh White House. Of course it's only a peek, but they seem well-pitched to the priorities of a moderate Republican in the 1990s.

A stalled US economy in the '90s is another matter, though. I hope it's nothing serious. "Slipping" is such a political word and could mean anything, including just a slow down in growth, which happened IOTL '95, so maybe not so bad. But losing the .com boom is troublesome. Of course, you could just be excising the worst excesses of the period.

Also nice to see Atwater at the RNC. Has an RNC chair ever come out of that position looking good?

I'm kind of glad you gave us the outcome of 1996 ahead of time. I spent way too much time speculating on the election last time.

Again, welcome back!

Z's Empire did the crapsack/mad Ruskie so well I can promise I won't try and go down that same path.

For Thornburgh I have a particular framework in mind that has been hinted at but the 90s will be different. Greenspan isn't the Fed Chair so money is a littler 'tighter' than his tenure would have it be so the economics are certainly changed.

Party chairs are only noticed when they're screwing up; but perhaps Atwater has plans....

That opening. <3

Thanks!

You scared the crap out of me with that opening.

But god, am I glad to see this timeline BACK!

Oh yeah, and I also love, no matter what the TL, that you can always slip Jerry Brown's name into any list of candidates from 1976 to today!

Right? He's around, don't worry.

Forget Biden pulling a Cleveland, Jimmy Carter will come back to win a second term at some point...it is known.

Haha, Carter was around for Clinton and he'll be around ITTL too.

This is a fantastic 7 month early birth present for me, Whanztastic! More Biden is always good.

Thanks!

I like the opening. Half expected it to be a fakeout with something other than OTL 9/11, but not that.

Go big or go home.

Excellent. I'm looking forward to Cleveland 2.0.

Okay. The train has now departed. Good opening. Subscribed!

Thanks!

IT LIVES!

Like in real history we often know what's going to happen (Biden's re-election) but the the fun is in the details. This'll be good.

It always is.

I agree.

 

[The Storyteller]

Wait, wasn't 'Derailed' one of my title suggestions?
Huh. Well that's certainly brightened up my day. Thanks.

Good start - the letter from Biden to Thornburgh was a nice touch.

 

[cubefreak123]

So is there a schedule in mind for when the updates will be posted or is it going to be more of a "when it's finished" kind of thing?

 

[Kung Fucious]

Just saying that like Thande I thought it was a great fakeout, well done.

So can we assume that the Baker Plan involves some kind of massive investment in the former USSR, such that they don't implode in the 90's?

 

[OnlyAlb]

It's back!!!!!

 

[Whanztastic]

So is there a schedule in mind for when the updates will be posted or is it going to be more of a "when it's finished" kind of thing?

I can't keep to a schedule, so random posts.

Next will be a summary of where this world is, a "State of the TL" if you will, to catch up people and set the stage.

Just saying that like Thande I thought it was a great fakeout, well done.

So can we assume that the Baker Plan involves some kind of massive investment in the former USSR, such that they don't implode in the 90's?

Sorry, used the wrong emoticon. Meant .

Baker Plan will be flushed out, don't want to give so much away.

It's back!!!!!

If anybody wants to suggest what a Republican White House would do in the 90s I'm all ears for suggestions.

 

[Kung Fucious]

If anybody wants to suggest what a Republican White House would do in the 90s I'm all ears for suggestions.

Depends on what kind of Republican we're talking about. Thornburgh came across as a center-Right Republican, and from the hints you've dropped it sounds like we get some kind of universal healthcare during his presidency. Plus, with Cheney dead and Gingrich marginalized (last time I checked), the far-right/Moral Majority isn't the powerhouse they were OTL.

I would say we'd probably see a slightly more interventionist WH, along the lines of GHWB, so if Rwanda and Somalia go down as per OTL I wouldn't be surprised if Thornburh committed troops (or at the very least went to the UN to get a resolution). Relations with North Korea are going to be very interesting, seeing as Kim Il-Sung is going to die at some point during Thornburgh's presidency, and really given the butterflies let loose from Biden's first term it's anything goes, from peaceful reunification to a full blown Korean War 2.0 (though it's obviously up to you).

That's off the top of my head, I'll try and pitch in some more ideas later (if you'd like).

 

[Tayya]

Finally!

I'm aboard. Looking forward to the next installments.

 

[cubefreak123]

I would say we'd probably see a slightly more interventionist WH, along the lines of GHWB, so if Rwanda and Somalia go down as per OTL I wouldn't be surprised if Thornburh committed troops (or at the very least went to the UN to get a resolution). Relations with North Korea are going to be very interesting, seeing as Kim Il-Sung is going to die at some point during Thornburgh's presidency, and really given the butterflies let loose from Biden's first term it's anything goes, from peaceful reunification to a full blown Korean War 2.0 (though it's obviously up to you).

I doubt that we'd see Korean War 2.0 since the business in Bosnia showed that the US is not going to put up with that crap, especially so if Thornburgh takes an active role in Rwanda/Somalia.

Sorry for forgetting, but does anyone remember the status of some of the more extremist elements in the Middle East when Biden left?

 

[Whanztastic]

Depends on what kind of Republican we're talking about. Thornburgh came across as a center-Right Republican, and from the hints you've dropped it sounds like we get some kind of universal healthcare during his presidency. Plus, with Cheney dead and Gingrich marginalized (last time I checked), the far-right/Moral Majority isn't the powerhouse they were OTL.

I would say we'd probably see a slightly more interventionist WH, along the lines of GHWB, so if Rwanda and Somalia go down as per OTL I wouldn't be surprised if Thornburh committed troops (or at the very least went to the UN to get a resolution). Relations with North Korea are going to be very interesting, seeing as Kim Il-Sung is going to die at some point during Thornburgh's presidency, and really given the butterflies let loose from Biden's first term it's anything goes, from peaceful reunification to a full blown Korean War 2.0 (though it's obviously up to you).

That's off the top of my head, I'll try and pitch in some more ideas later (if you'd like).

Thanks, I'll admit I have some FP ideas but its hard to keep track of everything.

I doubt that we'd see Korean War 2.0 since the business in Bosnia showed that the US is not going to put up with that crap, especially so if Thornburgh takes an active role in Rwanda/Somalia.

Sorry for forgetting, but does anyone remember the status of some of the more extremist elements in the Middle East when Biden left?

I'll summarize better later but no Iraq War means basically simmering tensions but with hints of greater disaster in the future (Saddam still in power basically until ~2010).

 

[OnlyAlb]

In my personal opinion, from what I have read about Thornburgh so far in your first update, he seems like he was an excellent president.

 

[Expat]

With the US and China less friendly ITTL, I can't imagine China's going to be any more inclined to let NK go. OTOH, if Kim's death worries the Chinese, we could see their own direct intervention to create a more stable (re: less insane) state on their border.

And if we're talking NK, Cuba should also be on the table. They almost buckled IOTL post-SU.

Other moderate GOP talking points from the 1990s: tax reform? Balancing the budget? And if Clinton thought it necessary to sign DOMA in an election year, I can imagine a Republican would do the same. Something odious from the "family values" camp will rear its head.

I bet Murphy Brown's sad to see Biden go...that show's probably been writing itself for the past 4 years.

 

[Kung Fucious]

With the US and China less friendly ITTL, I can't imagine China's going to be any more inclined to let NK go. OTOH, if Kim's death worries the Chinese, we could see their own direct intervention to create a more stable (re: less insane) state on their border.

And if we're talking NK, Cuba should also be on the table. They almost buckled IOTL post-SU.

A Chinese intervention into NK is definitely possible and/or probable. As with anything related to the Norks, nothing's really that far fetched for them (though they really didn't jump on the crazy train till Lil' Kim took over). If the USSR turns into the USS/Sovereign Union backed with American investment (like Whaz seems to be hinting with the Baker Plan), then the Norks are going to be really screwed once Kim dies.

Cuba is also in play, maybe we'll see Thornburgh lift the embargo ("Only Thornburgh could go to Havana")?

Other moderate GOP talking points from the 1990s: tax reform? Balancing the budget? And if Clinton thought it necessary to sign DOMA in an election year, I can imagine a Republican would do the same. Something odious from the "family values" camp will rear its head.

I bet Murphy Brown's sad to see Biden go...that show's probably been writing itself for the past 4 years.

Looking over Thornburgh's time as Pennsylvania's Governor that's practically a given that he'll try and balance the budget. DOMA is tricky, since Clinton was pressured into it by the strong religious wing of the Republicans, who've been somewhat neutered ITTL.

 

[THE OBSERVER]

Next will be a summary of where this world is, a "State of the TL" if you will, to catch up people and set the stage.

Outstanding! Don't forget about the high-speed trains. One good thing I love about this world.

 

[Heavy]

Looking over Thornburgh's time as Pennsylvania's Governor that's practically a given that he'll try and balance the budget. DOMA is tricky, since Clinton was pressured into it by the strong religious wing of the Republicans, who've been somewhat neutered ITTL.

As I recall, a few details here and there were dropped in the last one about potential tensions between the Thornburgh White House and the Religious Right faction in the Republican Party. I think it was the RNC update from last time?

Do you think you could mention how Norman Tebbit is getting on if he's still PM in the UK? Being a side story, I guess that sort of fell a bit by the wayside in part one. He might be out by now, of course!

 

[THE OBSERVER]

What can we do pop-culture wise?

 

[PistolSO]

I'm glad this is back. It will be interesting to see what TTL Russia is like in the 90s. It will be also interesting to see TTL's Middle East with no Gulf War.

 

[Stolengood]

W00t! Next stop on The Thornburgh Express: Cuba!