The Bell Bravely Tolls On

Nobushige didn't know what he had expected.

When Lord Hideyori declared the charge, and they rode out to meet the enemy for one last strike, perhaps he thought that they were giving up their lives with honour. The aim was to slay Ieyasu and break the will of the enemy, but after so many months of fighting it seemed closer to a final stand rather than a last resort. A glorious death, rather than victory, might have been the purpose of their attack.

Looking around, all that he could see was the corpses of the fallen. Some fell during the charge, with the proud banner of the Toyotomi covering part of their corpse, and others had been clinging onto life before passing. Only an hour or so had passed since the invaders retreated from Osaka, and the ronin had moved to take the heads of their enemies, in an attempt to gain glory and victory. The rush of the charge blinded them to the true extent of their injuries.

Dying just as they began to hope to display the fruits of their bravery. Nobushige wondered if it was a tragedy or an inspiration for others. These were men who had been cast aside by the Tokugawa, robbed of their land and belongings for the crime of standing loyal to the Toyotomi against treachery and deceit. Hideaki's divine punishment for his betrayal was proof enough that Ieyasu's actions were villainous.

Now his empire was collapsing around him. Daimyo were rising up against the Tokugawa, loyalties to the Toyotomi were either renewed or recalled, and the Lord Hideyori would soon take his rightful place as leader of Japan.

The months after he fled Koyasan had reminded Nobushige of the horrors of war. Bodies littered across the floor, from samurai to ashigaru to even the horses themselves, to the point where they almost became a new ground. It was a dark reminder that victory had come at a cost, one that was almost too high to even call a triumph over the enemy.

He wondered if Kiyomasa felt this way during the campaign in Korea, as they were driven away from the shores and forced back into Japan. Asking the man was now impossible, with his passing just three months ago, but even then Nobushige doubted that he would gain an answer. By the time that Kiyomasa left for Kyushu to prepare for war, recognising the choice between Lord Hideyori and Ieyasu, Nobushige had yet to arrive at Osaka.

"Nobushige!" It took him a second to recognise that voice. Turning his head leftwards was not even necessary as Goto Mototsugu rushed to stand by his comrade's side. He moved from his horse, much different to the one he rode out in, and ran to Nobushige, whose own horse had been left with a soldier with instructions to wait for his return. Goto gave what sounded like similar instructions.

Formalities were skipped, as Nobushige went to continue his search. A smile still came to his face. "Some of the men were getting worried, Goto." He started, recognising the path ahead. "They say you were struck by a stray bullet from one of Date's men. Unable to even stand."

"It would take more than a bullet to stop me from thrashing that blowhard fool." Goto scoffed. "My armour managed to withstand the blow. Had it not been for your strike..." The words ended there. Neither of them wanted to contemplate such.

To die in battle is a great honour. An honour that he had been thankfully denied for now. Nobushige had little doubt that things would not have turned out as they did, without Goto by his side. The two were a fine team, both in battle and in political matters.

It seemed so long ago, when the Osaka commanders all sat down and tried to form a plan that would bring about a true victory. Some hoped to simply wait things out, allow the Tokugawa forces to starve outside, and make an arrangement. Nobushige knew better, however. This was a fight to the death, and the Tokugawa knew it. If they wanted victory, they would have to go on the offensive and seize it.

Lord Hideyori had lacked the steel he had now, back then. It had only been Kiyomasa's letter advising Nobushige and Goto's plan that pushed the young master into endorsing their campaign, alongside naming the two of them as chief commanders of the Osaka Siege. In theory, only answerable to Hideyori himself, although in practice Lady Yodogami's words came from his mouth.

The fruits of their initiative quickly grew fruit. Goto secured the Nara plains, and Nobushige burst through towards Kyoto itself, past Seta, Fushimi Castle, before making it to the imperial city. In truth, there was merit to those who claimed that they would be stretched too far, or that the ronin would not (and still had trouble with) obey orders when the chance to loot and pillage was right there for the picking.

We still held Kyoto. An entire week that destroyed the enemy's plans entirely. He reminded himself. With the Tokugawa declared rebels, their crimes made official, they went from the offensive to the defensive. Any hope of smashing down the walls of Osaka and ending the uprising died with the Imperial Edict's announcement.

Of course, once they moved back to Osaka Castle, the Edict was reversed and new one came out, but that did not matter. It was a reactive move, a rebel denying their accusation by accusing their enemy of that very crime. Only those who were loyal dogs openly supported such. Those Daimyo who were wavering, however, remained silent.

From there, the siege truly began. They readied themselves, using the extra time to gather supplies such as food, weapons, and ammunition to their advantage. When the Tokugawa forces took the surrounding villages, the Toyotomi were ready, especially Nobushige himself. His reports allowed him ample time to ready himself for any strike on the Sanada-maru.

Matsudaira Tadanao and Maeda Toshitsune marched to strike at him, the former trying to avenge his early failings to his grandfather, and both men fell to the ferocity of the Sanada's forces musket-fire. Not even a man such as Naotaka Il, a true son of his great father, could overcome their defences. It was a necessary tragedy that a man such as Naotaka had to fall in that battle, struck by a bullet and only an hour to linger and fight on.

A true warrior to the end, he kept on fighting. Naotaka's body was recovered and given to the Tokugawa to bury with full honours, as was Toshitsune's, while Tadanao's was left. A punishment for costing Ieyasu an ally and a fine subordinate? Either way spirits were high, not even Lord Hideyori's performance during the head-viewing ceremony had been able to impact morale.

Nobushige's lips pursed. "Did you come across Lord Hideyori, on the way to me?"

"He seemed eager to enter the castle once more. Almost as if there was nowhere else he'd rather be, if you wanted my opinion." Goto said with a similar look of concern. They were nearing Nobushige's destination, where there would be too many to speak freely as they could now. "Ever since the bombardment, he has gained steel, but how much of that was more blind anger? You know what the early days were like, and we cannot have that now."

"Lady Yodogami's death did bring out something within him." No one could doubt that something changed. Before he could barely muster inspiration, and rarely contributed ideas to war-meetings, leaving it to his mother. "We lost maidens in armour, and gained a man who had the fury of ten armies. It's no surprise that his anger would die down over time."

"Maybe. Let's at least hope that some of that passion and drive remains." Goto stopped walking, as did Nobushige. Both of them were dangerously close to the Tokugawa camp, now in ruins and tatters, ransacked except for what was strictly kept under-guard. By the time of their charge, while there were enough supplies to last, they would need everything they could find for the battles ahead.

There are also some things that must be respected. The last thing Nobushige wanted to deal with was arguments over who had slain who, which would then devolve into duels at best and drunken murder plots at worst. His best men, of those still remaining alive and uninjured, were ordered to keep order and prevent riots. Even then, risks cannot be taken. We've won a victory, don't let thoughts of future defeat get into their minds.

"Many despise the Tokugawa for robbing them of their wealth, or were simply offended by their actions. The men are unlikely to abandon us now. Not when we stand on the cusp of total victory." Goto said, the Tokugawa camp easily in sight. They did not take one step, for fear of their words being heard.

"Our scouts say that both Hidetada and Tadateru took the Tokaido back to Edo. Other than that, nothing more than bickering and retreat. They're not even moving to hold Kyoto." Nobushige added, not sure whether to smile or not. "If they do not divide, and Tadateru is bought off to obey Hidetada as Shogun-"

"Then we fight as always, Nobushige. They could have taken the Nakasendo, so perhaps some Daimyo are readying to rise up for Lord Hideyori."

"Or they took the more convenient route, where they do not need to fear any more Sanadas." Nobushige added, prompting Goto to laugh. It was likely that the Tokugawa had had their fill of Sanadas by now.

He wondered how Nobuyuki was. Married to an adopted daughter of the Tokugawa, fought for the Eastern Army, and was known as a Tokugawa loyalist even during the Siege of Osaka, and yet Nobushige still was thankful that his brother lived. Without him, both Nobushige and their father would have been killed, rather than exiled, and his wife had been upstanding in caring for Father in those twilight years.

Would Nobushige have to do the same for his own brother? Hideyori would hopefully take after his father, in granting mercy to the retainers of defeated enemies, rather than the late Nobunaga Oda. He might have been more helpful than his great-grandson had been, having his consorts beat sleeping sentries with a stick, but he was not a merciful man. It was an unlikely fate, but one Nobushige feared for his brother nonetheless.

"Regardless, we must discuss our next move." Nobushige boldly moved forward, Goto easily keeping pace. At that, the Sanada general winced as he felt his left arm protest the vigorous movement, which got his fellow general's attention. "A cut on the arm. The doctor asked to look at it again, after the head-viewing ceremony for today."

Goto nodded at that. "We move back to Kyoto, secure it again, and make our proclamations." They entered the former Tokugawa camp, a once dignified and fortified place, now filled with ronin and soldiers taking what they could, whether heads or valuables left behind. Still, it was the centre where Nobushige planned to stop and handle his business.

Daisuke had moved to secure the area and direct efforts to sort who killed who, and had done the best he could. Nobushige's worst fears were chaos, and it seemed like a false fear.

"The son takes after his father," Goto mused. "You should be proud. He's shown more courage and skill than many men twice his age, and ten times his fame. Lord Hideyori was even impressed with his conduct."

"I am content that he has managed to survive this long, to tell you the truth. We will need men like him to keep discipline in the ranks, if we have to move to finish off the Tokugawa. Hidetada's paranoia and Tadateru's ambition may be our best hope at bringing peace to the land quickly."

"Perhaps if Lord Hideyori offers a pardon to those who take up arms against Hidetada? Date will be the main backer for Tadateru, and if he swings towards us-"

"We will be right back where we started. Holding the West against an East that is hoping for an opportunity to expand their power once more." Nobushige sighed, wondering when he became so tired. "The Maeda Clan hold great wealth thanks to the Tokugawa, and they had to find a new Clan leader because of Toshitsune's death. I doubt they will accept any large reduction in land, the same goes for the Date. Meanwhile, we have an army that will be demanding the restoration of what they lost after Sekigahara."

"An enemy we cannot compromise with, and an army that may be demanding its prize. Almost makes you miss the days of getting attacked by those foreign cannons."

"Didn't have to think yourself into a box."

The two smiled at that joke, dark as it was. Both men turned serious, however, when Daisuke and the rest of the assigned guard came into view, their armour as tattered and worn as Nobushige and Goto's. The customary exchange between commander and subordinate were given, before Nobushige and Daisuke became father and son again.

"We've organised the head-count, nearly everyone was satisfied with what happened, but some are complaining that their kills were too messy. Some had enough of an injury that I doubt the spike will be enough." His son reported, adding another issue to Nobushige's thoughts. "Your heads are by the centre, we've placed them according to identified rank."

If that were true, it would be one head on a floor of the others. Being honest, Nobushige had mostly killed regular soldiers except for the one on top. Seeing the three piles of heads, a few dozen in number, the front pile was the only one that caught his attention. Of all of them, this head was the most valued of the entire army, one that many a soldier bragged to their friends of being the one to attain.

Now it was Nobushige's to claim as the result of his efforts, both in planning and actual combat.

Ieyasu Tokugawa looked as if he died as he lived. Solemn, dignified, and with a stout sense of direction, although his age clearly showed. Nobushige remembered something far different, a look of horror and surprise, and an attempt to move away and flee before the spear hit its target. Guards screamed, some making a charge to avenge their lord, others fleeing at the realisation that their master was dead.

The Tokugawa forces had already broken down into panic, and were barely being kept in line by their commanders. The death of Ieyasu, however, spread like wildfire, as did the chaos of a sudden retreat. It almost seemed planned, in Nobushige's eyes, as if someone heard it and decided that the day was lost.

Did Hidetada fear that his brother would claim the title of Shogun? Did Tadateru hope to use the panic to sneak back to Edo and establish himself? Or was it one of their respective retainers, making themselves useful early on? Either way, with Ieyasu's death came the death of the Siege of Osaka.

"For all his patience, his sacrifices, and his victories, it all turns to nothing." Nobushige said, letting his thoughts turn into words. He looked to the side to see empty sacks placed next to the heads. "Gather the heads into the sacks. Daisuke, Goto, we'll take the heads back to Osaka and claim them as mine, unless you need to gather your own."

"I already did mine before coming here." Goto replied.

"Mine are already stored and ready to be taken back." Daisuke said, standing tall.

"Good. Tell the men to head back to Osaka. The Tokugawa are unlikely to be making a return, and we will need to prepare ourselves for what comes next." He turned to face them. "We march to Kyoto tomorrow morning! All shall know of the traitor's death, and the restoration of the Toyotomi to their rightful place! Hideyori Toyotomi shall be named Kampaku, and the commanders of the Tokugawa forces must travel to Kyoto to await judgement."

A cheer came from Nobushige, Goto, Daisuke, and the guards, as those in other sections of the area began to join in, the sound flooding the camp. It was what he expected, even as it managed to raise his own spirits. His orders moved to be carried out, as he and Goto went to go back and collect their horses again.

Leaving the camp, he allowed himself one final look back at the head of Ieyasu Tokugawa. The man who went from a hostage to Shogun and now laid dead in a battle he thought would be a last obstacle to total rule. What were his last moments like? Was he lamenting his misfortune? Cursing the day he moved to take power? Or was his spirit now finding peace in the thought of his sons rallying under Hidetada to fight the Toyotomi another day?

What would you do, if you were in my position, facing the trials that may come ahead? Nobushige wondered, before paying it no further mind. Now was not the time to think of what others would do, or what he would like things to be. Now was the time to take pride in victory, celebrate survival and good fortune, and embrace the future ahead.

Tomorrow would be a day to prepare for war once more.
 
Very good writing... and huge butterflies for Japan!

Thanks, I was hoping that people would be interested.

I was conflicted on whether to use the actual name (Nobushige) or with the more well-known Yukimura, before choosing to go for historical accuracy. There were a lot of things that were actually OTL, such as Hideyori's lack of passion, his mother Lady Yodogami's idea of having herself and hand-maidens dress in armour to rally the troops (all it did with the cynical ronin was make them think it showed the commander's lack of strength), and Oda Nagayori having his consort whip sleeping sentries awake.

One thing I wanted to do was to create the feeling that people who have a head on their shoulders are realising something that they can't tell is bad or not. No one really planned for the Tokugawa to have lost without being wiped out. Yes, the Toyotomi now have a stranglehold on the Kyoto area and will be declaring their enemies as traitors, allowing for firm control of Western Japan, but the Tokugawa aren't beaten. Hidetada, contrary to popular belief nowadays, was not an incompetent, and his potential rival Tadateru has an untouched province and a father-in-law who is skilled in warfare.

The ronin will demand payment, certain retainers came in hoping for getting their land back, and it's been fifteen years since Sekigahara. In the eyes of many, this was supposed to be the end, not a sudden re-emergence of conflict, and now Hideyori has to sort out demands from followers while not losing the wavering side. It'd be easy to strip the Tokugawa of their land, but that would risk having some who were once willing to defect flock to the Tokugawa.

No one knows what's going to happen. In gaining victory, they have gone from dead men to a mixture of participants and observers. Hidetada and Tadateru may tear each other apart, or they may join together and attempt to hold back the Toyotomi. The ronin and retainers may be willing to wait for their prize, or we could see a repeat of what ended the rule of Strong Emperors during their attempt to remove the Kamakura Shogunate hundreds of years before this point.

It was a fun project, if a niche topic, going by the lack of responses, and I'm glad I did it.

The PODs I went for were first having Kato Kiyomasa survive four more years in time to declare himself for Hideyori and offer some form of help before dying, one theory of his death being that Ieyasu had him poisoned during one of the many attempted reconciliation talks to avoid this. ITTL, it doesn't work and Kiyomasa helps save the Toyotomi by having an actual top commander to run things, rather than a group of commanders who lacked a firm decision-making. This can be seen how the OTL-proposed plan for the Toyotomi forces to attempt to occupy Kyoto and have the Tokugawa declared traitors and rebels is actually used and pulled off ITTL, by the same commanders that argued for it in Nobushige Sanada and Goto Mototsugu, two of Hideyori's best generals.

This basically puts Ieyasu on the defensive, buys some time, and shows that things won't be easy. One butterfly is that Tadanao Matsudaira and Maeda Toshitsune's attack on the Sanada-maru goes far worse, as both men are killed, along with Naotaka Il whose unit had taken horrible casualties IOTL before a ninja had to attack the 'Red Devils' from behind to get them to fall back in a 'fighting retreat'. Here, Ieyasu loses the head of one of his richest retainers, his favoured candidate for succeeding the Il Clan, and his grandson (although he wasn't too fond of him or his father, Ieyasu's eldest son after his first son was made to commit seppuku). The Maeda are less eager to send troops, in the midst of deciding a new head, and Osaka Castle looks like a hard nut to crack.

As our final butterfly, we have Lady Yodogami's death. IOTL, Ieyasu's use of European cannons helped him go over the otherwise impregnable walls of Osaka and attack the wooden buildings, with many close calls, such as killing Yodogami's hand-maidens and destroying a tea-cabinet in the same room as her. IOTL, this made her push harder for peace-talks out of fear, and Hideyori (who was easily influenced by her and was not an inspiring commander) was convinced to do so despite Mototsugu's advice on Tokugawa antics. The Winter Siege ended with the Tokugawa breaking the agreement and filling in the outer-moat and breaking the walls to make it easier for next time.

Here, Lady Yodogami's death lights fire in Hideyori's belly, and he rejects talk of ceasefire and allows greater freedom for Nobushige and Goto to work with, so long as Ieyasu is defeated. This leads to a stand-off, many failed attempts at breaking through as retainers begin to mutter, and the Toyotomi slowly being worn down by the artillery attack. Months go by and it's decided to end it all with a heroic charge led by Hideyori (proposed during the Summer Campaign), which manages to succeed ITTL with a larger army, Hideyori actually leading the charge rather than meekly running back before it starts, and everyone doing it together.
 
So Hideyori continues for now... do you have any more of this planned?

This was always going to be a one-shot. Many reasons are involved, including not enough time to dedicate to such a project, and a lack of knowledge about the post-Sengoku period i.e. Hidetada and his son's time as Shogun after Hideyori died.

A project I plan on doing, in the future, is the idea of Nobunaga surviving Honnoji and living until he dies of a natural cause. It'd be the Caesariad in Sengoku Japan, to summarise the general plot, and explore how Japan changed with Nobunaga being in charge rather than Hideyoshi spending years eliminating rivals and starting up campaigns that Oda was planning to finish in two years before he died.

That's not to say it'd be a worship of Nobunaga. There's a reason why the 'Hideyoshi or Ieyasu plotted Honnoji with Mitsuhide' theories had some support, and it wasn't just because of their later success. Luck is always essential to being a successful Daimyo, Yoshimoto Imagawa had the Tokaido Road and geography on his side, Ieyasu had a tonne of lucky moments in battle, and Nobunaga had a few close calls. The Azai almost broke through at Anegawa, the Ikko Ikki took years to put down, and it was only in 1582 that the Takeda were truly ended.

This is not to mention that his last years showed the more...eccentric side of things, mistreatment of retainers, paranoia, and rising control over personal relations, despite a relatively devolved structure in terms of talent recruitment and administration, was getting people upset. My own theory on Honnoji is that Mitsuhide heard bitter talk from others, realised that his career had hit a ceiling, and decided to strike, expecting support from certain corners when he triumphed. The look at a Nobunaga-run Japan would include the benefits compared to Hideyoshi and Ieyasu, but also the negatives as well, and how his successors-to-be hope to handle it.
 
Nobunaga's Japan sounds fascinating.

The trick is trying to find out what he might have done differently compared to Hideyoshi and Ieyasu. Both men were close and enjoyed Nobunaga's favour and the closest thing to fondness (others were Ranmaru Mori, Nagahide Niwa, Toshiie Maeda, and Nagamasa Azai for a while (partly why he took the betrayal so personally)) and their measures might have been replicated. For all we bollock Hideyoshi for closing off social progress with the Sword Hunt and making the social distinctions rigid, the only big difference with Nobunaga would be that merchants might have a better position than OTL. Not to mention that nothing guarantees that Europe would be happy to give Nobunaga more than they did with other Daimyo, or that he'll remain happy with Christianity's rise.

It's a fun idea, if you manage to avoid the cliche of 'Nobunaga becomes Shogun, wins the Imjin War, if he even tries such an idea, and makes Japan so modernised that we have Gundams by 2000. All hail the Demon King!'. I think he's definitely Top Tier, but he isn't the best, and I'd want to show both the benefits and the costs of having him have control over all of Japan for around a decade. Ieyasu had his flaws, but Space Oddity put it best when he called him the boring policy wonk that Japan needed.

The closest thing that the Oda had to it was Nobutada Oda, one of the main commanders in exterminating the Takeda alongside Ieyasu.

Oh man.
Is this before or after Toyotomi's Korean expedition?

After. Hideyoshi was the main force behind the venture long after it proved doomed, even when the mission changed from "conquer China, then India, then rule all of East Asia" to "kill the Korean dogs because they defied our invasion and ruined everything", both in refusing to make peace albeit the circumstances had been farcical and in having very loyal subordinates in Korea. By his death in 1598, the dream had died.

Needless to say, foreign expansion is on the bottom of people's list of priorities, now that civil war looks to return. We're not going back to the days of the post-Onin War and Sengoku Jidai, this is much cleaner in that at most we'll see four 'sides' (Toyotomi, Hidetada, Tadateru, and some uprisings from discontent figures on both sides), only three being something credible. By then, Ieyasu had mostly smoothed things over with Korea, with the help of Yoshitoshi So, who had opposed the invasion and been one of the main backers of peace efforts during the Imjin War.

I imagine some in Korea are enjoying the sight of the Japanese tearing themselves apart again, however, after the stuff they pulled.
 
Needless to say, foreign expansion is on the bottom of people's list of priorities, now that civil war looks to return. We're not going back to the days of the post-Onin War and Sengoku Jidai, this is much cleaner in that at most we'll see four 'sides' (Toyotomi, Hidetada, Tadateru, and some uprisings from discontent figures on both sides), only three being something credible. By then, Ieyasu had mostly smoothed things over with Korea, with the help of Yoshitoshi So, who had opposed the invasion and been one of the main backers of peace efforts during the Imjin War.

I imagine some in Korea are enjoying the sight of the Japanese tearing themselves apart again, however, after the stuff they pulled.

I believe there was a WI in the pre-1900 forum on Korea possibly supporting one or another faction for further chaos in Japan, perhaps even sending expeditionary troops. I'll see how plausible this is in the year 1600(which I believe is the era ITTL), and maybe you'd like to entertain the idea.
 
I believe there was a WI in the pre-1900 forum on Korea possibly supporting one or another faction for further chaos in Japan, perhaps even sending expeditionary troops. I'll see how plausible this is in the year 1600(which I believe is the era ITTL), and maybe you'd like to entertain the idea.

Considering the state of Korea after the Japanese finally evacuated the place, and the understandable isolationist turn it took in response, I doubt there are the resources of desire for such a movement. There was some recovery by 1615, when the Siege of Osaka ended both IOTL and ITTL, 1600 was Sekigahara where Ieyasu fought Mitsunari Ishida, but not enough to make such aid viable or even desirable. Right now, the policy would probably be schadenfreude from some, while the more panicky and superstitious start sweating about what might happen if the son of warmonger Hideyoshi succeeds against the Shogun and son of the man who had mostly re-established peaceful relations.

If there's a side they'd back, I'd say it'd be Hidetada, but then the other problem emerges. Even if Korea was able and willing to do so, supplying the Tokugawa would be very difficult now that the Toyotomi have Western Japan likely to shift banners, even more so if Tadateru changes sides and takes Tohoku with him. At the most, they may protest the removal of the Shogun and the potential for another war, but the Sho may edit it to something milder, as they did when the Koreans demanded the extradition of the soldiers who plundered the royal tombs, and could be sated by Hideyori promising that good relations will remain.
 
What shenanigans are the Christians and their Western allies up to ATL?

Well, this is right after the latest Tokugawa crackdown in 1612-4, so I imagine they're in a similar position to OTL. Some European figures still allowed in Japan for trading purposes will likely report that the Emperor (how particularly the English labelled Ieyasu) has been slain, his sons have fled and will either fight or join forces, and Fidaia Same (what they called Hideyori) is marching back to Kyoto to confirm his rule and begin his attack on the enemy.

A good deal of Christian soldiers did join with Hideyori's cause, but so did the dogmatically anti-Christian Kato Kiyomasa (although he's now dead), and there were rumours that he had Christian sympathies. That being said, no one is really up for really fighting to the death for the cause of Christianity, outside of a handful of radicals. Even the Shimabara Revolt was more because of taxation, famine, and the presence of discontent ronin, rather than the anti-Christian policies, whatever the later image.

If Hideyori decides to reverse some of the more radical pushes under Ieyasu and Hidetada, he'll find a few good friends within the Western Daimyo, particularly in Kyushu. That said, the persecution of Christians as a nation-wide policy did start under Hideyoshi, and no one is going to join the Tokugawa if Hideyori decides to do little, if anything, on the issue. Tadateru may throw a few bones, if he decides to fight Hidetada and Hideyori, seeing as Masamune Date was particularly pro-Western/Christian and there were rumours that his daughter Irohahime, Tadateru's wife, was even a secret Catholic.

Still, it may be that the two or three players may offer either the same path as OTL, something slightly milder, or the status quo, and it wouldn't really shift support of the Western Daimyo. The biggest question will likely be whether the Tokugawa stay together, and who will stand with them regardless.
 
Ah, gotcha. Didn't realize it was after the crackdowns -- seems like peak Kirishitan has passed

Yeah. We had a few more crackdowns, culminating in the post-Shimabara total isolation policy, but the peak of Japanese Christianity during this time was probably the 1570-Early 90s, where they had the support of Nobunaga, who didn't go beyond what others did but had a large area of influence, and then Hideyoshi's neutrality meant they didn't face too many roadblocks.

The great issue is that you had the Jesuits, who were broadly fine with not rocking the boat, and then the Merdicant Orders of which some were happy to ask about setting up Spanish fortresses during a time where the Philippines were being occupied. Naturally, this didn't ease worries of some that this was readying Japan for conquest, and the arrival of the Dutch and English made them realise that there were other Christian sects, which gave rise to the fear that differing Christians would become like the Ikko Ikki, bringing chaos with foreign backers. The fact that the Dutch and English offered trade without religion helped, as did rumours of all sorts that led to the persecutions.

Mind you, Nobuhide Oda, Nobunaga's grandson and the eventual head of the Oda Clan during the Sekigahara conflict was supposedly a Christian. If Nobunaga lived and maintained his policy, and his heir Nobutada did the same when he would take charge, and the succession fell to Nobuhide, you could see a Japan open to foreign influences. That said, it's vulnerable to butterflies, more likely to see others limit such policy, and other factors limiting such.
 
If we really want to see it we could have Gwanghaegun become king earlier becuase of the earlier death of Seonjo(maybe even during the second Japanese invasion). But I agree, the country was devastated from the attack.
But there were movements to seek retaliation, I believe, so it's not completely impossible.
I think Korea can first invade Tsushima(which has happened before) and try off various things from there. Contacting various Japanese warlords would be a great start.
 
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