The Bedford Incident aftermath

High possibility, but it depends how close in contact with their HQs the ships were, because if it's realised the Americans fired first they might just let it slide
 
Seems very possible Finlander buries it...& insists Munceford not report it, for "national security".

It's not like a sub disappearing would be news to the Sov Navy...:rolleyes:
 
Seems very possible Finlander buries it...& insists Munceford not report it, for "national security".

It's not like a sub disappearing would be news to the Sov Navy...:rolleyes:

How are either of 'em in a position to do anything after Bedford takes a couple nuclear torpedoes? Finlander won't be making ANY decisions anymore.
 
joeferrito said:
How are either of 'em in a position to do anything after Bedford takes a couple nuclear torpedoes? Finlander won't be making ANY decisions anymore.
As I remember, Finlander fired first...
 
What happens after the destruction of the USS Bedford?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bedford_Incident

A clash between a single destroyer and a single submarine in an isolated location resulting in mutual destruction is not the same as the Cuban Missile Crisis situation where a Soviet sub nearly put a nuclear torpedo into a US Aircraft Carrier. The automatic escalation is not there.

It might escalate, but that would not be automatic. The Bedford would have been sending reports back to Fleet HQ, who would know that the Soviet sub captain had to be getting desperate after being trapped with the air slowly going bad until it was almost lethal. Therefore the possibility of it turning violent would already be known, and the Bedford's captain was commanding a single destroyer in the freezing middle of nowhere because he was a known hothead.

Or am I remembering the movie wrong? Last time I saw it I think Nixon was President...

Assuming the Northern Hemisphere is not turned into a sheet of radioactive glass because a tired crewman mistook a comment to a reporter for an order to fire - that is how the ASROC got launched, I remember that - than there would be a major shouting match. Newspaper headlines, TV commentators, politicians of all nationalities and political beliefs trying to get their two cents in.

Rules of Engagement would be created to try to prevent anything like this happening again.

Whoever at Atlantic Fleet Command was getting the Bedfords reports of the situation would be grilled by a Senate Committee with the TV cameras rolling and possibly wind up being transferred to an icebreaker or floating dry-dock with a rank so low he would be saluting recruits.
 
In the film, one is left with the impression the incident triggered a nuclear war, not just the mutual destruction of Bedford and the Soviet submarine.

In the event that the film only intended that the two ships were mutually destroyed, one is left with the distinct possibility that nobody except the dead Russian and US crews knew what had actually happened, and in the early 1960's would the Soviet and US high commands even have a way of knowing what happened to the ships since this all happened in the arctic? I don't remember Finlander giving reports to his commanders and the submerged soviet sub would be incommunicado.
My guess is that higher-ups on each side would chalk this down to a couple of unrelated accidents, but conspiracy theorists might have a field day.
 
Ben Munceford (the journalist played by Sidney Poitier) is a somewhat dubious character in the 1963 source book by Mark Rascovich.

The character's behaviour in the film used to be used as an example in the RN of how not to behave as a sea-rider.

The Englander Incident was better, anyway.
 
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Could it be taken as the torpedoes going off inside the sub and Bedford simply being within the blast-range?
 

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Could it be taken as the torpedoes going off inside the sub and Bedford simply being within the blast-range?

It's possible. One way be if the warheads only have a basic arming/detonation sequence, such as the Mk. 101 Lulu nuclear depth bomb. Once armed, a Lulu would detonate upon reaching its depth setting, without checking to see if it had actually been dropped from an aircraft. The other way is if the warheads or torpedoes themselves are unstable and can be activated by salt water.
 
As I remember, Finlander fired first...

Who's going to know? Major international incident in international waters where everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else in confusion. Both sides lost a ship, there's a series of explosions far out to sea, and no survivors. Tensions rise for a good long while but without any answers and no sign of preemptive mobilization on either side eventually everyone is left scratching their head as to what the hell happened.

The only way this turns into war is in the unlikely scenario of the Russians managing to report back what was happening and then the more unlikely scenario of the US backing the captain's actions. More likely the US immediately disavows the captain's actions, issues a formal apology, and possibly offers some reparations. The fact the captain was passed over for promotion because he was too aggressive goes a long way to support that. If the American ship reported home but not the Russians the CIA is immediately going to destroy any mention of the US firing first again resulting in a mystery.
 
The book had Munceford being the sole survivor of the sinking of the Bedford (which sank when the West German admiral on board went mad after the sub was sunk and exploded the ship by shooting an ASROC), and getting picked up by the Soviet sub's support vessel. Presumably that would reduce tensions...and hopefully get both sides to talk.
 
Escape Zeppelin said:
Both sides lost a ship, there's a series of explosions far out to sea, and no survivors.
You've missed my point. I had the impression Finlander sank the Sov boat before she fired on Bedford. (I may've forgotten a counterattack.) In the first case, it gets buried. In the second, it's likely both sides bury it to avoid an escalation--if either or both can actually determine what happened. At that time, I'm not sure the ability to detect atmospheric nuclear blasts was as well-developed as we're used to...
 
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