The Beatles line-up would be:
Lennon
McCartney
Clapton
Starr
Their music would be a bit rockier from 1964.
Lennon
McCartney
Clapton
Starr
Their music would be a bit rockier from 1964.
The Beatles: No George Harrison?
- Thread starter Romantic Nihilist
- Start date
This is not really possible, but I could devise a scenario in which something similar occurs...
Paul and George meet (they had the same bus route to school) but don't get along for some reason; maybe they were going after the same girl or what-not.
Paul still joins the Quarrymen on rhythm guitar and then transitions to lead as OTL. Let's say he still messes up a critical colo at a gig, as OTL, but instead of giving George (who is not in the band) the lead responsibilities, Lennon decides that he and McCartney should share the lead/rhythm based on which one of them is more adept at the given song.
They stay a bit more skiffle a bit longer (because they have just as bad luck with drummers TTL) and also explore a little more of the delta blues that was sweeping the south of England (due to Lennon and McCartney needing to step up their guitar game in the absence of anyone better. Believe it or not, more blues influence early on would drastically improve their chops.)
Now, assuming butterflies are stunted a bit this early (and I like to think they would be) The Beatles still eventually form with a similar line-up to OTL. They draft Stu Sutcliffe on bass and Pete Best on drums and go to Hamburg, but with fewer people to split their (scant) earnings with - and with no underage Harrison getting in the way, they stay longer, learn more, and become bigger there before transferring that success back to Liddypool.
So, thus far we have McCartney and Lennon switching off on leads (and both are significantly better at it since they don't have the Harrison crutch to lean on) and since they're slightly better, slightly bigger, and making slightly more money we'll assume they become a local sensation slightly earlier.
Chas Newby would almost certainly have become their bassist if Stu still leaves or dies even earlier (and I'm a firm believer that regardless of how long he had lived, Stu would have been out). While not a terrific bassist, all accounts show he's solid (at least better than Stu) and with a bit of training from McCartney, would have a very similar style to him.
Continued:
So we'll assume Best still gets ousted and Starr remains in the group.
Very little will change in their music for some time, I think.
Chas will probably not sing, but Lennon and McCartney will be heralded as the new Holy Grail triple threat of harmonizing, composing, guitar virtuosos.
In TTL I see them getting even bigger.
With a slightly more blues bent on their first record I could see stuff coming out of the Crawdaddy Club getting a bit bigger a bit sooner...
Now for the Clapton bit:
We'll say Paul McCartney leaves the band in roughly 1966 or so when the group stops touring. Maybe John and Paul have a worse relationship because they step on one another's toes more TTL.
Paul leaves and Chas Newby quits music.
John Lennon hires the dream team of Eric Clapton and Jack Bruce to usher in the heavy blues/rock/power pop/psychedelic movement with him and Starr (they were looking for a group at this team, and the group became Cream).
The Beatles continues on as a half Beatles/half Cream hybrid.
McCartney becomes something of a solo artist, and he calls upon Klaus Voorman from the Hamburg days to be his bassist, maybe also inviting Pete Best (or even more interesting: Ginger Baker?) to be the drummer.
The songs won't be OTL, but if you take all of McCartney's songs from this period and make it one group - then take all the Lennon songs from the other group and add a hint of Cream you have a pretty close scenario to the sounds you wanted above.
And great rock music on both sides, methinks.
ADDENDUM:
Here's another interesting thing perhaps.
Say Harrison does pretty well for himself in other local groups and one of them gets asked (as several did OTL) to move down to London to play the circuit. One of the biggest misses of OTL was that the Merseybeat couldn't have spread into the blues clubs of London, essentially mixing Beatle and Rolling Stone sounds before the British Invasion took off...
So here, why not have Harrison's group bring Merseybeat to the Crawdaddy Club in the late fifties early sixties.
When the Starr, Lennon, McCartney, Newby Beatles take off in say 1961 or 62 (earlier, you see, than OTL) have Harrison bring Best and Voorman (who he may have met in tours of Hamburg after the Beatles opened the door) to start his own Bluesbeat group.
They get big, just under the levels of Beatles and Stones success, but they don't do a whole lot until Paul McCarntey joins up with them in 1966.
So in 1966 we have the Beatles: Lennon, Bruce, Clapton, and Starr
And the other band: McCartney, Voorman, Harrison, and Best.
The rest is history.
You like it?
So we'll assume Best still gets ousted and Starr remains in the group.
Very little will change in their music for some time, I think.
Chas will probably not sing, but Lennon and McCartney will be heralded as the new Holy Grail triple threat of harmonizing, composing, guitar virtuosos.
In TTL I see them getting even bigger.
With a slightly more blues bent on their first record I could see stuff coming out of the Crawdaddy Club getting a bit bigger a bit sooner...
Now for the Clapton bit:
We'll say Paul McCartney leaves the band in roughly 1966 or so when the group stops touring. Maybe John and Paul have a worse relationship because they step on one another's toes more TTL.
Paul leaves and Chas Newby quits music.
John Lennon hires the dream team of Eric Clapton and Jack Bruce to usher in the heavy blues/rock/power pop/psychedelic movement with him and Starr (they were looking for a group at this team, and the group became Cream).
The Beatles continues on as a half Beatles/half Cream hybrid.
McCartney becomes something of a solo artist, and he calls upon Klaus Voorman from the Hamburg days to be his bassist, maybe also inviting Pete Best (or even more interesting: Ginger Baker?) to be the drummer.
The songs won't be OTL, but if you take all of McCartney's songs from this period and make it one group - then take all the Lennon songs from the other group and add a hint of Cream you have a pretty close scenario to the sounds you wanted above.
And great rock music on both sides, methinks.
ADDENDUM:
Here's another interesting thing perhaps.
Say Harrison does pretty well for himself in other local groups and one of them gets asked (as several did OTL) to move down to London to play the circuit. One of the biggest misses of OTL was that the Merseybeat couldn't have spread into the blues clubs of London, essentially mixing Beatle and Rolling Stone sounds before the British Invasion took off...
So here, why not have Harrison's group bring Merseybeat to the Crawdaddy Club in the late fifties early sixties.
When the Starr, Lennon, McCartney, Newby Beatles take off in say 1961 or 62 (earlier, you see, than OTL) have Harrison bring Best and Voorman (who he may have met in tours of Hamburg after the Beatles opened the door) to start his own Bluesbeat group.
They get big, just under the levels of Beatles and Stones success, but they don't do a whole lot until Paul McCarntey joins up with them in 1966.
So in 1966 we have the Beatles: Lennon, Bruce, Clapton, and Starr
And the other band: McCartney, Voorman, Harrison, and Best.
The rest is history.
You like it?
Last edited:
And if I may attempt some bonus points...
The two groups break up around the late 60's and early seventies.
John and Rings get along just fine, but Clapton and Bruce despise them and one another.
Klaus and Best don't get along, and Best doesn't get along with anyone.
When a reunion comes up the only four blokes interested are John, Paul, George, and Ringo.
The OTL Beatles still form circa 1973 or 74 as a supergroup, release an album, and have a national televised appearance on whatever American variety show is the top of the ratings. A tour follows and people go crazy for: The Beatles... in 1974.
Sometimes I amaze even myself...
The two groups break up around the late 60's and early seventies.
John and Rings get along just fine, but Clapton and Bruce despise them and one another.
Klaus and Best don't get along, and Best doesn't get along with anyone.
When a reunion comes up the only four blokes interested are John, Paul, George, and Ringo.
The OTL Beatles still form circa 1973 or 74 as a supergroup, release an album, and have a national televised appearance on whatever American variety show is the top of the ratings. A tour follows and people go crazy for: The Beatles... in 1974.
Sometimes I amaze even myself...
That one did it!!! Nice work
Thank you kindly!
You going to do a TL on this... or...?
EDIT:... or... am I?
You may as well. Just credit me for the idea
Of course I would!
I don't really have enough time to do it at the moment, although I wish someone would take it up. Any takers? We need more sixties pop culture TLs around...
I think everyone is ignoring how good a guitarist George was, and also how isolated the Liverpool scene was from the London scene. Without George's ability no-one in London, including Clapton, would have known that there even was a Liverpool scene, and the Beatles would now be a little-remembered rock and roll group like the Big 3.
Remember that early Lennon/McCartney compositions were largely 12 bar, like "Can't Buy Me Love" or at least used just three chords. On its own that wouldn't stand out much. For an idea of what Harrison added, listen to what was an unofficial tribute to them by Brian Wilson - "My Little Girl" which was the Beach Boys reworking of Ticket To Ride.
What could have saved them was if Epstein heard the Lennon/McCartney/Best/Sutcliffe line up and decided that both Best had to be replaced by Ringo and that Sutcliffe had to go, Paul should take over on bass and either Mike Pender of the Searchers (another Liverpool success) or, if he looked that far (to Manchester) Tony Hicks of the Hollies would be lead guitarist. Listen to the opening of the Hollies "Look through any window" or the whole of the Searchers' repertoire to see why. Hicks would be my favourite but Pender more likely.
Remember that early Lennon/McCartney compositions were largely 12 bar, like "Can't Buy Me Love" or at least used just three chords. On its own that wouldn't stand out much. For an idea of what Harrison added, listen to what was an unofficial tribute to them by Brian Wilson - "My Little Girl" which was the Beach Boys reworking of Ticket To Ride.
What could have saved them was if Epstein heard the Lennon/McCartney/Best/Sutcliffe line up and decided that both Best had to be replaced by Ringo and that Sutcliffe had to go, Paul should take over on bass and either Mike Pender of the Searchers (another Liverpool success) or, if he looked that far (to Manchester) Tony Hicks of the Hollies would be lead guitarist. Listen to the opening of the Hollies "Look through any window" or the whole of the Searchers' repertoire to see why. Hicks would be my favourite but Pender more likely.