The Battle at Dawn: The first battle between the United States and Japan December 7-10, 1941

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thanks for the kind words

There will be an epilogue and I will count up losses etc

This will be linked to the next one...

"An Honorable Fight: The American defense of the Philippines"
which starts with the death of Douglas Macarthur in the Argonne in 1918
 
Will the epilogue also tell how the war in the Pacific is affected by heavier loses on both sides, so early on?
 
thanks for the kind words

There will be an epilogue and I will count up losses etc

This will be linked to the next one...

"An Honorable Fight: The American defense of the Philippines"
which starts with the death of Douglas Macarthur in the Argonne in 1918

So that means the new thread you putting on would deal with Force Z and Asiatic fleet?
 
Galveston Bay stated before he intends to continue the rest of the Pacific war in a series of critical battles much as this, each following on the other as I remember, very much looking forward to that. Great work so far.
 
So that means the new thread you putting on would deal with Force Z and Asiatic fleet?

in a word, yes

general ideas so far
the Fight of the Asiatic Fleet (and thus associated ABDA ships and planes) which includes the Fall of the Philippines
The Invasion of Darwin and North Australia Campaign
The Defense of Rabaul
Marshal Island Campaign

from there I will see how it goes....
 
Is either side feeling good about the results? I imagine both sides are walking away from this one feeling like they just go their butts kicked...
 
Is either side feeling good about the results? I imagine both sides are walking away from this one feeling like they just go their butts kicked...

probably not... Brown inherits a fleet down to 2 BB, 3 CV (counting the Saratoga which hasn't left CA yet), some cruisers and destroyers and some submarines

Yamamato is going home with half the carriers he started with and less than half the aircraft, plus some battered battleships and has the embarrassing task of explaining to the Army that another brigade is needed as he lost the one they loaned him.
 
Is either side feeling good about the results? I imagine both sides are walking away from this one feeling like they just go their butts kicked...

I'd imagine the American will feel a whole lot better when the Japanese attack on Wake gets smacked down. In TTL the Japanese really can't throw much at it following the failure of the attack on the 11th, so it will be fairly easy for Brown to reinforce the garrison with whatever it needs. When coupled with the damage to the Japanese fleet suffered in TTL and the ramifications of that on the offensive south the Pacific War's going to be a whole lot shorter
thanks for the kind words

There will be an epilogue and I will count up losses etc

This will be linked to the next one...

"An Honorable Fight: The American defense of the Philippines"
which starts with the death of Douglas Macarthur in the Argonne in 1918

So...no M1 Garand in your new TL I take it? Will the failure to adopt the M1 result in the US Army adopting a new squad light machine gun to replace the BAR? Or perhaps in TTL work on modernizing the BAR begins earlier, leading to a more effective weapon come 1941?
 
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MACARTHUR DEAD IN 1918 POD MENTIONED

So...no M1 Garand in your new TL I take it?

I thought MacArthur was only responsible for the M1 being changed from 276 Pedersen to 30-06, something about not wanting to throw out stockpiles of existing ammo? The M1 beat the Pedersen Rifle because Pedersen was in England during the selection trials.

Still the Pedersen Rifle would have been perfectly adequate from what I know
This from Forgotten Weapons.
 
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I'd imagine the American will feel a whole lot better when the Japanese attack on Wake gets smacked down. In TTL the Japanese really can't throw much at it following the failure of the attack on the 11th, so it will be fairly easy for Brown to reinforce the garrison with whatever it needs. When coupled with the damage to the Japanese fleet suffered in TTL and the ramifications of that on the offensive south the Pacific War's going to be a whole lot shorter


So...no M1 Garand in your new TL I take it? Will the failure to adopt the M1 result in the US Army adopting a new squad light machine gun to replace the BAR? Or perhaps in TTL work on modernizing the BAR begins earlier, leading to a more effective weapon come 1941?

I am still sorting through the ramifications of no MacArthur as Chief of Staff ... working on who would get the job instead of him

The problem for Wake is that the Americans have to reinforce Midway which got shot up pretty thoroughly
 
From what I remember, Mac's push to have the M1 Garand chambered in 30.06 was a big part of why it was eventually adopted. After all, this was during the height of the Great Depression and adopting an entirely new rifle caliber would be a tough sell...
 
in a word, yes

general ideas so far
the Fight of the Asiatic Fleet (and thus associated ABDA ships and planes) which includes the Fall of the Philippines
The Invasion of Darwin and North Australia Campaign
The Defense of Rabaul
Marshal Island Campaign

from there I will see how it goes....
Whoo on the Asiatic Fleet. :D

Hopefully the USS Houston survives somehow...
 
Just looking at the breech mechanism of the Pedersen...HELL NEAUX!!!!! too complex and I wouldn't want to drag it through the mud...

Would have loved to see a Garand in .276, the basic load of ammo carried by the infantryman increased without an increase in weight...
 
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