The Baron the Reich

If Manfred Albrecht von Richthofen, The Red Baron, had survived WW1, would he become a ranking officer of the new Luftwaffe in Nazi Germany? Was he even the type to associate with the Nazi party and what they stood for?

And if he had been involved with the Luftwaffe, what is the most plausible role he would have?

He might have been a symbolic propaganda figure head, in this scenario, but I don't know much about his personality to make a guess to what he might think of the Nazis.

What does everyone else think might have happened to him post WW1, between the interwar years, and WW2?

Thank you
 
His biggest problem would be his former subordinate Herman Goering. The latter would have more political power with the Baron would have greater pull within the military.

Assuming that the Nazis come to power, the Baron is going to loathed to do business with them, but like other senior German leaders is still very lightly to do so. Inevitably, he would be involved in some form of coup and so without some luck, arrested and shot.
 
His relatives did, so I hardly see why he wouldn't. A great many German nobles sided with Hitler, at least until they realized Hitler's war was a loser no matter what they did, at which point they discovered a sudden moralism and horror and repugnance where Nazism was concerned that had not been there when Hitler was going from strength to strength.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
His biggest problem would be his former subordinate Herman Goering. The latter would have more political power with the Baron would have greater pull within the military.

Assuming that the Nazis come to power, the Baron is going to loathed to do business with them, but like other senior German leaders is still very lightly to do so. Inevitably, he would be involved in some form of coup and so without some luck, arrested and shot.

Err, if the Baron lives, he is Goering, atleast in terms of political power in post-war Germany. Goering got his position because he was the Baron's right-hand man.
 
Excellent point Nietzche. Perhaps he and Richtofen become opponents here.
Then again how would Richtofen and Hitler have gotten along, the Aristocracy never really thought that much of Corporal Schickelgrubler (most of the vons who served the nazi regime only did so after he came to power).
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Excellent point Nietzche. Perhaps he and Richtofen become opponents here.
Then again how would Richtofen and Hitler have gotten along, the Aristocracy never really thought that much of Corporal Schickelgrubler (most of the vons who served the nazi regime only did so after he came to power).
Goering, for all his faults, would not go against his friend & mentor. He had too much respect for Richthofen. IIRC, he once made a statement in private that amounted to "I wish it had been me, instead of him", referring to him being shot down. They had too much in common. Both were avid hunters, and both had similar interests in the finer things of life, along with the new field of aeronautics and such. If you want to stop Goering from becoming a Nazi, keep Richthofen alive and have him stand up to the 'Brown Mob'.
 
Goering, for all his faults, would not go against his friend & mentor. He had too much respect for Richthofen. IIRC, he once made a statement in private that amounted to "I wish it had been me, instead of him", referring to him being shot down. They had too much in common. Both were avid hunters, and both had similar interests in the finer things of life, along with the new field of aeronautics and such. If you want to stop Goering from becoming a Nazi, keep Richthofen alive and have him stand up to the 'Brown Mob'.


If Richthofen was chosen over Goering to run the Luftwaffe and accepted, would he have been a more competent leader? Or would he handle things in a similar fashion to Goering, but with his unique spin on things?
 

sharlin

Banned
Personally i'd like to think he'd be like the General who commanded the troops in Africa, I can't remember his name but I belive he told Hitler to 'fuck off' and wasnt interested in anything to do with the Nazi party.
 
Personally i'd like to think he'd be like the General who commanded the troops in Africa, I can't remember his name but I belive he told Hitler to 'fuck off' and wasnt interested in anything to do with the Nazi party.

Oh yes, General Deadmeat.

No, you're talking about Rommel, I assume. I'm also assuming you're not serious when you say he told Hitler to "fuck off."
 

sharlin

Banned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Emil_von_Lettow-Vorbeck was the chap I was talking about.

Between May 1928 and July 1930, the former General served as a Reichstag deputy for the monarchist German National People's Party. He intensely "distrusted Hitler and his movement,"[44] even though Hitler offered him the ambassadorship to the Court of St. James's in 1935, he "declined with frigid hauteur."[46] During the 1960s, Charles Miller asked the nephew of a Schutztruppe officer, "I understand that von Lettow told Hitler to go fuck himself." The nephew responded, "That's right, except that I don't think he put it that politely."[47]
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Emil_von_Lettow-Vorbeck was the chap I was talking about.

Between May 1928 and July 1930, the former General served as a Reichstag deputy for the monarchist German National People's Party. He intensely "distrusted Hitler and his movement,"[44] even though Hitler offered him the ambassadorship to the Court of St. James's in 1935, he "declined with frigid hauteur."[46] During the 1960s, Charles Miller asked the nephew of a Schutztruppe officer, "I understand that von Lettow told Hitler to go fuck himself." The nephew responded, "That's right, except that I don't think he put it that politely."[47]
I read somewhere that the 'Valkyrie' plotters asked his opinion about whether overthrowing the Nazis would be compatible with their officers' oaths to serve Germany, and only went ahead after he'd agreed that it would be okay.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Emil_von_Lettow-Vorbeck was the chap I was talking about.

Between May 1928 and July 1930, the former General served as a Reichstag deputy for the monarchist German National People's Party. He intensely "distrusted Hitler and his movement,"[44] even though Hitler offered him the ambassadorship to the Court of St. James's in 1935, he "declined with frigid hauteur."[46] During the 1960s, Charles Miller asked the nephew of a Schutztruppe officer, "I understand that von Lettow told Hitler to go fuck himself." The nephew responded, "That's right, except that I don't think he put it that politely."[47]

My already high regard for von Lettow-Vorbeck just wnet up.

Somewher on this site is a partially completed timeline where von Lettow-Vorbeck and von Richthofen team up to found a non-racist German Nationalist party that prevents Hitler from coming to power.
 
Goering was a very early Nazi disciple so unless Richthofen was a similarly early initiate he would be subordinate to Goering in the luftwaffe. I remember an incident where Richthofen hung a Belgian priest for allegedly spying when he was a cavalry officer. Richthofen was judge and jury in that incident just as he was a cold blooded executioner in the air. I think he might have fitted in quite well with the new order. He may have been chosen to fill the role that Ernst Udet played in the Luftwaffe which might have meant a different procurement policy among other things. For example he may not have shared Udet's fetish for dive bombers.
 
Well, he might well be like his brother Lothar, start some kind of business in aviation, and maybe die in it. As a businessman he would be a different proposition than just a war hero. As a dead person, he would be different from a living one.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
If Richthofen was chosen over Goering to run the Luftwaffe and accepted, would he have been a more competent leader? Or would he handle things in a similar fashion to Goering, but with his unique spin on things?

A key thing to remember about Goering is he topped out at a Captain in the Luftstreitkräfte. He was fighter pilot and leader of fighter pilots. Never went to War Collage, Staff Collage, never held any staff positions or commands higher than that of Jagdgeschwader 1. He was totally unprepared from a training point of view to be a service chief.

Unless Manfred von Richthofen stays in the Reichswehr and advances he would be no more prepared than Goering to be a service chief. Not saying he would be as bad as Goering, but the deck would be about stacked against him as it was against Goering.

Michael
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Goering was a very early Nazi disciple so unless Richthofen was a similarly early initiate he would be subordinate to Goering in the luftwaffe. I remember an incident where Richthofen hung a Belgian priest for allegedly spying when he was a cavalry officer. Richthofen was judge and jury in that incident just as he was a cold blooded executioner in the air. I think he might have fitted in quite well with the new order. He may have been chosen to fill the role that Ernst Udet played in the Luftwaffe which might have meant a different procurement policy among other things. For example he may not have shared Udet's fetish for dive bombers.

...and Goering may not become an early nazi disciple if his friend, mentor & idol survived the war.
 
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