The B-29. A different development path.

1585417549211.png

Here is the "Hobo Queen." The only B-29 deployed to the ETO during WW2. She was displayed at several airbases in Britain for morale purposes and also to alarm German Intelligence. But perhaps things should have been different. In retrospect considering the high loss rates among the B-17 and B-24 heavy bombers that were deployed in OTL maybe B-29s should have been used instead. At least as far as production numbers would allow. Which brings up other considerations.

Boeing began their initial design work on what would become the B-29 in 1938. However it didn't enter service until mid-1944. How could've the development and large scale production of the B-29 be sped up?

One of the major problems with the B-29 was the Wright R-3350's troubled development. Overheating and fires being a serious danger that caused the loss of many airplanes. Eventually after a few years the R-3350 was improved but not in time for WW2. So for use in WW2 the Pratt and Whitney R-2800 would have been a better choice. As shown in the P-47 the turbocharged R-2800 could produce at least the same, if not somewhat more, power as the 1944 versions of the R-3350 and it was also a more reliable engine. The R-2800 would have been available for mass production of B-29s in 1942.

Another big development hurdle the B-29 faced was the remotely operated gun turrets. These type of turrets were the only practicable method to fit guns in a pressurized airplane before radar or TV sighting were developed. It was an electro-mechanical system that was complex, expensive and took 3 years to get to a working state. But avoiding this developmental delay would require a much larger POD then the much easier one where someone chooses a different
engine. This requires a huge change in AAF policy.

What Boeing and the USAAF would have to do is abandon fitting defensive armament to the B-29 at that time. This would result in a much simpler, lighter and more aerodynamically clean airplane. A plane that could cruise at 35K to 40K feet at better then 300MPH TAS. And could push close to 400 TAS at those altitudes using emergency power and after dropping the bombload. This kind of performance put the airplane out of reach of most of the Luftwaffe's fighters. It would also have made it a much more difficult target for Flak.

But this approach goes directly against the Air Force's belief that a heavily armed bomber "will always get through." What could possibly change that belief?
Could the massive losses RAF Bomber Command experienced earlier in the War before they abandoned daytime bombing have made the Americans reconsider? If the British had proceeded with Barnes Wallis' Victory Bomber concept would that have changed a few minds? What if the decision was made to start producing the B-29 in large numbers early in 1942 and the remotely operated gun system would be added later? Go with with what they got?

Producing the B-29 in 1942 to equip the 8th Air Force with unarmed B-29 bomber groups in 1943 is a radical idea it's true. But consider what they would be facing. Almost all the Luftwaffes' fighters are going to struggle to intercept B-29s that are clipping along at better then 35K feet and more then 300MPH TAS.
I'm not sure how much this would degrade German Flak guns capabilities but it would be considerable.

This alternative B-29 would be carrying a crew of only 6 men. Without the weight of and the drag of gun turrets and ammunition. Loaded with about 30 to 40 percent of the fuel load that was needed to reach Japan from the Marianas this B-29 can hit any target in Germany while carrying, I think, a 10,000 pound bombload. All this and the R-2800 engines would give it the performance needed to avoid the Jagdwaffen. For the most part. The Germans had recon planes that could reach these altitudes and they would have surely have embarked on a crash program to develop more planes that could. But this would've taken time, resources, and production resources from other uses.

The Allies would need to provide escorting fighters for these ATL B-29s right from the get-go. This was also true in OTL though it wasn't acknowledged until after the heavy losses of the early bombing campaign. Sending unarmed bombers at the beginning would have expedited the use of escort fighters. For their high altitude performance the P-47 and P-38 are already in service by 1943. A well designed pressure oxygen system would be needed for long duration flights at those altitudes in an un-pressurized fighter.

Even a partial pressure suit might prove necessary for flights approaching 40K feet. In the ETO escorting fighters proved essential in OTL. That would also be needed in TTL even if the Luftwaffe fighter threat is diminished by the difficulty of interception and the smaller numbers of German fighters with that capability.

One wonders about the accuracy of bombing from 35K to 40K instead of 25K feet but would that be remediated by the larger bombloads and the less disturbance by Flak?

Would the 8th Air Force have benefited from having the B-29 available in force in 1943? To supplement the B-17 and B-24 groups? To be used for the more dangerous long distance raids deeper into Germany while the B-17s and B-24s are reserved for shorter ranged missions in France, Benelux or the Rhur escorted by the shorter legged fighters?

By the time that Tinian and Saipan are available in late 1944 for the bombing campaign against Japan the remotely operated gun turret system should be ready for fitting to the production B-29s earmarked for use in the Pacific. These planes will need that defensive armament because they are flying missions that are too long ranged for fighter escort and they'll be flying lower and slower then their European sisters. They'll still be a difficult and dangerous intercept problem for the Japanese air forces same as OTL. And in this TL a few thousand B-29s would have been built by late 1944 with most of the bugs worked out and also using the Pratt and Whitney R-2800 engines.
 
In short - yes, such a bomber would've been a plus for the Allied war effort. Cruising at 30-35 kft, it removes the most common German heavy AA gun - the 8.8cm L56 - from equation.The Fw 190 between rock and a hard place - opt for heavy guns battery and lack performance at 30-35 kft, or opt for lighter guns battery and reduce the chance to kill a bomber. It also puts the rocket-armed Bf 110Gs into unfavorable position. OTOH, the Bf 109 with a single MK 108 might've proved a 'cure' for this problem.
So the 'B-29 lite' will still need fighter escort.
 

Driftless

Donor
So the 'B-29 lite' will still need fighter escort.

Does that escort need to be a pressurized plane itself? Especially if it needs to tag along for much of the flight. Also, would the escort likely need to be available in shifts, given the extreme environment (for the era)?
 
Does that escort need to be a pressurized plane itself?

Maybe not. It would be extra weight and complexity and demand a long development time. Lockheed, for example abandoned development of pressurized versions of the P-38. But it's really pushing the physiological limits of the pilots by flying near 40K for extended periods even with pressure fed 100% oxygen.
Even some kind of half-assed partial pressure suit would benefit the fighter pilots while eliminating the need to pressurize the fighter plane and avoiding explosive decompression if the cockpit area is hit by enemy fire.
 

marathag

Banned
At least as far as production numbers would allow. Which brings up other considerations.

Boeing began their initial design work on what would become the B-29 in 1938. However it didn't enter service until mid-1944. How could've the development and large scale production of the B-29 be sped up?
As the path taken by the B-32, leave the troublesome pressurization and computerized remote gun stations out of the Program

And elsewhere as I posted, the US doing 2500 cubic inch class V-12 in place of the hyper Development program.
Let 'No Replacement for Displacement' be the motto of the USAAC in the 1930s and makes the XB-15 and XB-19 far more successful as testbeds
 
To me it’s very interesting that the most successful bombings of the war were night, low level fire bombing. B-29s in Japan were used quite a bit at 5000 feet with zero armament. Japan was particularly susceptible to this type of raid due to their cities construction. The high level bombing in Japan was terribly inaccurate. I realize that there were serious jet streams over Japan, it just seems that 30-40k feet is too high. I also understand that until the later stages of the war, Germany had much better night defenses than Japan. Dresden was destroyed by firebombing and than daylight bombing the next day.
 
...
And elsewhere as I posted, the US doing 2500 cubic inch class V-12 in place of the hyper Development program.
Let 'No Replacement for Displacement' be the motto of the USAAC in the 1930s and makes the XB-15 and XB-19 far more successful as testbeds

I'd suggest taking a long, hard look at the Rolls Royce R engine in the early 1930s.
 

marathag

Banned
I'd suggest taking a long, hard look at the Rolls Royce R engine in the early 1930s.
in the '30s, NIH, sadly.

Though keeping Curtiss in the Trophy Races against the British and Italian seaplanes would be one way to to keep a US Engine manufacturer thinking about big engines.

Might be hard considering the trouble they had with extending the life of the Conqueror.
Only way I think of is for Howard Hughes wanting a bigger engine for speed records, enough to keep Curtiss-Wright interested, if the USAAC is stuck on stupid with their love affair for the Hypers and opposed engines
 

marathag

Banned
As the path taken by the B-32, leave the troublesome pressurization and computerized remote gun stations out of the Program
And elsewhere as I posted, the US doing 2500 cubic inch class V-12 in place of the hyper Development program.
Let 'No Replacement for Displacement' be the motto of the USAAC in the 1930s and makes the XB-15 and XB-19 far more successful as testbeds

If you don't build a pressurized airplane you lose the benefits of high altitude flight.
 
Another interesting alternative, in my opinion, would be to design the B-29 to use the Allison V-3420, as the XB-39 did; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_XB-39_SuperfortressThe V-3420 began development in 1937 (and the idea was first started in 1935; https://oldmachinepress.com/2017/04/20/allison-v-3420-24-cylinder-aircraft-engine/), and seems to have had less developmental issues than the R-3350.

I think that Allison V-3420 could have been the best choice for the B-29 if the effort to fully develop the engine had been pursued. It would have been capable of producing 3000 HP at least. A properly designed cooling system and radiator housing would eliminate overheating problems even during a sustained climb out. And also allow the use of the Meredith effect. I went with the P&W R-2800 radial engine for this suggested alternative because it was a proven engine available early on that wouldn't require a major redesign of the B-29.
 
If a pressurized suit is available, then you might as well not pressurize the B-29 to increase resilience.

I think that the kind of partial pressure suit that could have been developed at the time wouldn't be tolerable for lengthy flights. I'm not sure the fighter pilots would really need them if they can stay below 40K feet.
 
To me it’s very interesting that the most successful bombings of the war were night, low level fire bombing. B-29s in Japan were used quite a bit at 5000 feet with zero armament. Japan was particularly susceptible to this type of raid due to their cities construction. The high level bombing in Japan was terribly inaccurate. I realize that there were serious jet streams over Japan, it just seems that 30-40k feet is too high. I also understand that until the later stages of the war, Germany had much better night defenses than Japan. Dresden was destroyed by firebombing and than daylight bombing the next day.

That's a good question. The USAAF could conduct operations with mostly disarmed B-29s flying low altitude raids at night over Japan due to the inadequacy of the Japanese air defenses. Clearly not an option over Germany. Flying as high as possible provide several benefits for self protection but increases the bombing inaccuracy. I don't know how that can be resolved with early 1940s technology. Simply by dropping more bombs?
 

marathag

Banned
If you don't build a pressurized airplane you lose the benefits of high altitude flight.
which really added nothing for Japan.
And for Europe, if 8thAF is still going to believe in the fiction of precision bombing from 30k

Advantage of the B-29 in such short range missions, can carry a lot of bombs.
One B-29 could carry 20,000, where a B-17 did 4000

Back to pressurization. spend the effort making better heated, soft armored suits.
No open windows for waist gunners
v89JWFlm7LkdoIloLXoyllBsW4wDmS2noyhl81H0qSnIHkNuOxG_m7OcxFDTiWvf5PnffPAocVu3L4e6U9b3drSiX0uq1nq3qBt369CXrRKlcd6Mj4ytZtLBfmCD1_WwkXi7JTSkIA

And take these lesson to heart
From B-24 gun position effectiveness report

November 1943-APRIL 1944TOTALDESTROYEDPROB.
DESTROYED
DAMAGEDNO
CLAIM
GUN POSITIONENCS.%NO.%NO.%NO.%NO.%
NOSE164167215.118182515.64917.2
TOP TURRET17717.27515.620203119.45118
BALL TURRET535.1306.33374.4134.6
LEFT WAIST15815.68517.8131324153612.7
RIGHT WAIST15815.66613.8191924154917.2
TAIL TURRET31230.515031.427274930.68630.3
TOTAL1022100478100100100160100284100
The actual numbers are unimportant, given overclaiming, but the ratios is the Gold here
leave the ball turret off. get a better tailgunner position, and flog people at ordnance till a reliable dual 20, or single 37-40mm mount is ready for it.
 
November 1943-APRIL 1944TOTALDESTROYEDPROB.
DESTROYED
DAMAGEDNO
CLAIM
GUN POSITIONENCS.%NO.%NO.%NO.%NO.%
NOSE164167215.118182515.64917.2
TOP TURRET17717.27515.620203119.45118
BALL TURRET535.1306.33374.4134.6
LEFT WAIST15815.68517.8131324153612.7
RIGHT WAIST15815.66613.8191924154917.2
TAIL TURRET31230.515031.427274930.68630.3
TOTAL1022100478100100100160100284100
The actual numbers are unimportant, given overclaiming, but the ratios is the Gold here
leave the ball turret off. get a better tailgunner position, and flog people at ordnance till a reliable dual 20, or single 37-40mm mount is ready for it.

The ratios suggest that a tail turret is the more essential position. I think this would prove even more valid in a higher and faster flying bomber as diving rear attacks might be the more likely tactic the Jagdwaffe would use especially as the B-29s are escorted. But how to operated the tail turret? In my O.P. I was suggesting the production of a simplified B-29 with only the front flight deck pressurized and no guns so as to be ready for being mass produced in 1942.

But should we add a tail gun turret? Since no practicable remote sighting existed in 1942 it would need a gunner. A separate and isolated pressurized rear compartment for the tail gunner might be possible and acceptable for the shorter ETO missions.

And regarding the increased inaccuracy resulting from bombing from a higher altitude there isn't any good fix for that with the available 1942-43 technology. I'm thinking the lower loss rate would mean more bombers in service combined with the larger bomb loads of the B-29 would partially ameliorate the increased inaccuracy. But that is little more then a guess.

The only possible solution to improve the accuracy of high altitude bombing in WW2 would be guided bombs of some type combined with the use of radar mapping and radar bombsights. A late war technology that was not ready in late 1942 or 1943.
 

marathag

Banned
But should we add a tail gun turret? Since no practicable remote sighting existed in 1942 it would need a gunner.
Since Boeing would not want to use the Consolidated Turret from B-24s, ERCO and Martin made rear turrets with large fields of fire.

One takeaway from the Charts was the Belly Turret had fewer opportunities for firings, but when it did, had a higher hit percentage.

Tail gun had more opportunities, but worse hit percentage.
 
Last edited:
Top