The Avro Jetliner, and the future of the company...

MacCaulay

Banned
For those of you who haven't heard of it, the Avro Jetliner was built in Canada and was the second jet powered passenger aircraft in the history of aviation. It was beaten into the air by six days by another aircraft from de Havailland, but the general thought was that the Jetliner was preferable: and one reason was because of the catchy name.

'Jetliner' became a name almost like 'Band-aid,' synonymous with not just a certain brand but an entire type of product. The shame of it all was, production on the Avro Jetliner was halted due to the outbreak of the Korean War when Avro moved it's line over to war production.

Numerous companies were interested in the aircraft. Howard Hughes, it could be said, was obsessed with it and even bought the sole flying copy left to use as a private jet.

"But what does this have to do with ANYTHING?" You ask, o kind reader...well, I'll tell you: when the Jetliner project went the way of the dodo, Avro was completely dependent on military contracts and without any civilian income. It's sole aircraft that it was marketing was the CF-100 Canuck, to the RCAF and to either the Dutch or Belgian air force (I can't remember which).

This put the company in a very akward position with the Avro Arrow: there were not many financial reserves in it's coffers for when the project fell on hard times: it was forced to go back to the Canadian government again and again as it had literally no other income. It's customer base was the Royal Canadian Air Force, and through that the Canadian government and taxpayers.

But had they kept the Jetliner, if for example the Korean War been delayed or not happened at all, then there were fairly concrete orders from multiple companies. Avro could've gotten in on the ground floor of civilian jet aviation and given itself an independent money stream away from the government of Canada.

And when the time came for the Arrow, the company would be on much firmer financial ground.
 
The political complications were ridiculous. TCA would only buy it if it came with 2 Avon engines which were not yet developed and were not available. In other words, it wasn't buying. Perhaps, if Avro was based in Quebec. TCA ended up buying the Vickers Viscount turboprop, which was OK. Then Vickers Vanguard, less OK.

avrojetliner.jpg
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Perhaps, if Avro was based in Quebec.

I don't mean to drag the whole thread off subject on the third post, but I've been reading a lot more into Canadian politics than I have been in years.

And one thing I forgot is just how fucking entitled Quebec feels. It's not a Have or a Have Not province. It's like a I'll Have That, And That, And That province.
Like someone took a bitchy old welfare recipient and turned him into a governmental institution.
 
The CF-18 service contract of 1986 was one glaring example. Bristol Aerospace had the knowledge and the equipment to do the job and it bid cheaper by $4M than Canadair of Montreal which had the advantage only of being in Montreal. Air Canada is based in Montreal, of course. It can't go bankrupt like airlines based anywhere else in Canada.
 
I've read that the engines in the wing roots has a lot going for it aerodynamically compared to the underslung engine layout. But with the demise of the British aviation industry the idea died. For that reason alone I'd like to see the Jetliner take off, so to speak.
 
And one thing I forgot is just how fucking entitled Quebec feels. It's not a Have or a Have Not province. It's like a I'll Have That, And That, And That province.
Like someone took a bitchy old welfare recipient and turned him into a governmental institution.

/cheap joke
Well, they're French, what do you expect?
/cheap joke
 
Did you know that once upon a time Quebec was the most business-friendly province in Canada, with low taxation, virtually no regulation, and tonnes of foreign investment? Even better, it was a bipartisan endeavour.
 
Sir Sydney Camm

Sir Sydney had it right...

"All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics. TSR-2 simply got the first three right."

Change TSR-2 to Avro Jetliner and you have what goes through my head every time I think about the Jetliner.

I think you are right that producing the Jetliner may have helped Avro in the long term but the Arrow was dead either way, the government blocked US, British and French inquiries after they cancelled it so I doubt the Avro future would have included the Arrow... but maybe there would have been a supersonic airliner.
 
Actually, from what I've read on the subject, it was Avro's military projects (the CF-100 and the CF-105) which killed the Jetliner. Basically C.D. Howe, the gov't minister in charge saw that Avro didn't have enough in it to develop and build both the CF-100 and the Jetliner and so had it cancelled.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Actually, from what I've read on the subject, it was Avro's military projects (the CF-100 and the CF-105) which killed the Jetliner. Basically C.D. Howe, the gov't minister in charge saw that Avro didn't have enough in it to develop and build both the CF-100 and the Jetliner and so had it cancelled.

The documentary that I just watched had an interview in it with one of the head designers at Avro, and he was very adamant about the fact that the Jetliner's being put on indefinite hold at the outbreak of the Korean War wasn't a coincidence.

Of course, if they decided they didn't have the production capacity, then so be it: Howard Hughes wanted to license produce it in the US. The cash from license production would still be a windfall. And even if they turned out a few planes a year from Avro they'd still be making money that wasn't tied to the whims of the Canadian government.
 
Top