The atomic bomb operational

Just wanted to add: Isley Field on Saipan received it’s first B-29s in October 1944. The Marines landed on the island on June 15th. If Army Engineers and Seabees can rebuild a Japanese airfield on a Pacific Island In 4 months then I think you can accomplish the same feat in England.
 
Not a chance Hitler will surrender. So either a third bomb falls on Berlin and wipes out the Nazi leadership, causing a power vacuum which would likely lead to open civil war perhaps between the Heer and SS as different factions start competing for power, or Hitler is overthrown to prevent the third bomb dropping.


Towards the end in NAZI Germany, we see even Hitler's closest associates starting to betray him when they saw it was hopeless.



One critical concern with choosing the target: It's essential that the plane will not get blown out of the sky en route.

In the skies over Germany, that's not certain. The Luftwafffe is weakened severely, but after bomb 1, any B-29 will be swarmedby anything that can fly.

I expect as a result targets near the sea to be hit initially.


Having to stop every 350mph plane flying at 34,000 feet is easier said than done.

And the Germans wouldn't know that it took a B-29 to deliver that bomb, so would worry about every other bomber after the first bucket of Instant Sunshine gets delivered.

Something like this happened in Japan. One plane just by flying overhead could cause air-raid alarms off.

Listening to the Farm Hall transcripts, the German Atomic scientists were gobsmacked on hearing the news: they thought it impossible for a bomb to be small enough to be dropped

The affect of nuclear bomb dropped on German city will not be as dramatic and deadly as bomb dropped on Japanese city. As had been pointed out in other threads before the Japanese cities constructed mainly of wood vs German cities constructed of stone would have a different destruction pattern and extent of destruction with German cities requiring 3 bombs to get same destruction as 1 bomb in Japanese city.

Population densities were higher in Japan and also many of the German towns had already been bombed.

But would learning about the feasibility of an atomic bomb a year earlier mean bomb production would begin a year earlier?

After the U.S. entered the war there were basically unlimited funds and resources allocated to the Manhattan Project. Learning that it was possible to build a deployable atomic bomb in 1940 might
raise interest and increase funding to the nascent Manhattan project by a limited amount. But to actually succeed the project will still require the 1942 and later funding levels.

I think at best the atomic bomb would be ready only a month or two earlier then OTL.

At least a great amount of scientists would be recruited to the project earlier, speeding theoretical work. As the Axis would be doing seemingly great in 1941 and 1942, might this lead to even more massive spending than OTL as it would seem that Germany and Japan might have their own projects too?

Especially as much of the early work required in 1942, did not cost that much, so I think a year is plausible.
 
If the plane that dropped it was recognized as a B-29--the ultimate heavy bomber--then B-29's would probably be swarmed.
 
If the plane that dropped it was recognized as a B-29--the ultimate heavy bomber--then B-29's would probably be swarmed.

The cost of stopping these planes would be large.

I could imagine too that each bomb would be packed with some self destruct mechanism just in case.

Overall though I would expect that most the bombs will successfully be launched as the overall loss rate for Bomber Command operations was in that period about 2.2 percent.
 
Considering how the aim was in regards to hitting the correct cities there is no chance the RAF tries it at night. Nuking Switzerland or Sweden is not a good PR move
By 1944 those problems had been sorted out.

The best target for the initial mission might be Hamburg, as it would minimize the ingress route.

No you don't waste an Abomb on a city that's already been bombed back to the stone age, you want something relatively undamaged. This is as much an experiment as a military operation and the scientists want data to analyse. With allied armies in France, Italy and Greece there are many more safe approach routes than just over the North Sea.
 
The cost of stopping these planes would be large.

I could imagine too that each bomb would be packed with some self destruct mechanism just in case.

If an Alert is called for every single plane flying overhead, people would be in and out of shelters constantly: nothing could ever get done

From the Little Boy wiki
the fuzing system was designed to trigger at the most destructive altitude, which calculations suggested was 580 metres (1,900 ft). It employed a three-stage interlock system:[30]
  • A timer ensured that the bomb would not explode until at least fifteen seconds after release, one-quarter of the predicted fall time, to ensure safety of the aircraft. The timer was activated when the electrical pull-out plugs connecting it to the airplane pulled loose as the bomb fell, switching it to internal (24V battery) power and starting the timer. At the end of the 15 seconds, the bomb would be 3,600 feet (1,100 m) from the aircraft, and the radar altimeters were powered up and responsibility was passed to the barometric stage.[30]
  • The purpose of the barometric stage was to delay activating the radar altimeter firing command circuit until near detonation altitude. A thin metallic membrane enclosing a vacuum chamber (a similar design is still used today in old-fashioned wall barometers) gradually deformed as ambient air pressure increased during descent. The barometric fuze was not considered accurate enough to detonate the bomb at the precise ignition height, because air pressure varies with local conditions. When the bomb reached the design height for this stage (reportedly 2,000 metres, 6,600 ft), the membrane closed a circuit, activating the radar altimeters. The barometric stage was added because of a worry that external radar signals might detonate the bomb too early.[30]
  • Two or more redundant radar altimeters were used to reliably detect final altitude. When the altimeters sensed the correct height, the firing switch closed, igniting the three BuOrd Mk15, Mod 1 Navy gun primers in the breech plug, which set off the charge consisting of four silk powder bags each containing two pounds of WM slotted-tube cordite. This launched the uranium projectile towards the opposite end of the gun barrel at an eventual muzzle velocity of 300 metres per second (980 ft/s). Approximately 10 milliseconds later the chain reaction occurred, lasting less than 1 microsecond. The radar altimeters used were modified U.S. Army Air Corps APS-13 tail warning radars, nicknamed "Archie", normally used to warn a fighter pilot of another plane approaching from behind.
 
No you don't waste an Abomb on a city that's already been bombed back to the stone age, you want something relatively undamaged. This is as much an experiment as a military operation and the scientists want data to analyse. With allied armies in France, Italy and Greece there are many more safe approach routes than just over the North Sea.

If A-bomb is coming online, I would expect some cities which were bombed in OTL to be saved as special targets well in time, just as in case of Japan in OTL. Operation Gomorrah could be on some other city. Of course there might be better candidates as well.
 
If an Alert is called for every single plane flying overhead, people would be in and out of shelters constantly: nothing could ever get done

And that would be an additional benefit - just sending three ship B-29 formations with fighter escort as spoiling missions, requiring Luftwaffe to intercept and cancelling production and causing panic.

That would be probably the mode of striking with further A-bombs as well, tens of similar missions at similar time, only a one or a few with A-bombs. Add large parachute retarded bombs just for further panic.

And we should not forget conventional bombing missions which would be occurring at same time. Luftwaffe would be cut to pieces even faster than OTL.
 
Most likely Target an atomic bombing in Germany in 1944 would be a major rail hub in the east. It's loss would seriously hurt the already poor logistical situation of the German forces in France. Then there is always Ploiesti Romania, 1/3 of all German refining capability within the blast radius of a nuclear single weapon.
 

DougM

Donor
I understand that Germany was the original projected target but I still just can’t see this happening.
In the Tim e period in question the war in Europe was well in hand. And some folks figured they would be in Germany within 4 months.
But the Situation in the Pacific was much nastier. So why would the US government say. I know let’s use this ultimate weapon on in the theater that we are doing the best in?
 
I understand that Germany was the original projected target but I still just can’t see this happening.
In the Tim e period in question the war in Europe was well in hand. And some folks figured they would be in Germany within 4 months.
But the Situation in the Pacific was much nastier. So why would the US government say. I know let’s use this ultimate weapon on in the theater that we are doing the best in?

US Army alone lost some 135000 dead in ETO, I would guess most of them between Jun 1944 - May 1945. Why not use the ultimate weapon, especially as it's use would serve a powerful negotiating tool against Japan? To be more exact, in WW2 way of thinking, what would be the reaction of politicians when they would hear about a powerful weapon which was not used? How about the French, Soviets and British?
 
I understand that Germany was the original projected target but I still just can’t see this happening.
In the Tim e period in question the war in Europe was well in hand. And some folks figured they would be in Germany within 4 months.
But the Situation in the Pacific was much nastier. So why would the US government say. I know let’s use this ultimate weapon on in the theater that we are doing the best in?



This was before the Mortain counterattack which doomed most of the strength of the Panzer divisions to be trapped in the Falaise pocket. At this point everybody still thought there would be a lot more fighting in France.
 
I understand that Germany was the original projected target but I still just can’t see this happening.
In the Tim e period in question the war in Europe was well in hand. And some folks figured they would be in Germany within 4 months.
But the Situation in the Pacific was much nastier. So why would the US government say. I know let’s use this ultimate weapon on in the theater that we are doing the best in?

Because the US government recognised Germany as the much greater threat and more powerful enemy.

Japan can wait - mining and blockade can continue. Germany was the greater threat and postwar issues with the Soviets must also be considered. Sure, if Germany is a few weeks away from defeat, then there's little point. But if it's, say, December 1944, then the bomb goes to Germany.
 
If the bomb will be ready a year early, might a special purpose Lancaster variant be thrown together? Add a couple more engines (either outboard of the existing ones, with a slightly lengthened wing, or mounted in parallel with Pusher props), and a pressurized cockpit?
 
If A-bomb is coming online, I would expect some cities which were bombed in OTL to be saved as special targets well in time, just as in case of Japan in OTL. Operation Gomorrah could be on some other city. Of course there might be better candidates as well.

So it's goodbye Dresden a year early, and the USAAF gets all the grief for the next seventy years!
 
No you don't waste an Abomb on a city that's already been bombed back to the stone age, you want something relatively undamaged. This is as much an experiment as a military operation and the scientists want data to analyse. With allied armies in France, Italy and Greece there are many more safe approach routes than just over the North Sea.[/QUOTE]

So it's Dresden a year early, and the USAAF gets the grief for the next seventy years!
 
If the bomb will be ready a year early, might a special purpose Lancaster variant be thrown together? Add a couple more engines (either outboard of the existing ones, with a slightly lengthened wing, or mounted in parallel with Pusher props), and a pressurized cockpit?
That's almost a whole new aircraft
 
So it's Dresden a year early, and the USAAF gets the grief for the next seventy years!
Vs what it got for Tokyo, far worse than any other raid in history, but almost forgotten because it was soon overshadowed?

Any city that's nuked with take from Hiroshima, that the USAAF was griefed with for 70 years, an attack that ended the War.

I'm in the camp that Germany would have folded just as fast under atomic bombs as Japan did, even with the Mustache chewing the carpet safely in the rubble of Berlin.
 
There is the chance that the atomic bomb won’t be used right away. D-Day would still happen on schedule in June. Overlord is to big an operation to postpone due to a untested weapons system. In OTL 1944 the Manhattan Project was a contingency to the Germans creating their own bomb. ATL Trinity test takes place in July after the landings.
In my opinion the atomic bomb would stay a contingency weapon if the Normandy landings failed or Hitler did something crazy to counter the landings. With the Allies breaking out of Normandy in Late July that coincides with testing the nuclear warhead.
I think Roosevelt and Churchill will order a stockpile of atomic bombs made first.
With Hitler now firing off V-1s at England then nuking Germany is now on the table. Also add the Warsaw uprising as fuel to a political fire to use the bomb. I think there will be serious planning for nuking German cities in the summer of 1944 going on with major input from Spaatz, Doolittle and Harris.
Also you have to remember that The Marianas Campaign has begun. In this timeline the Twentieth Air Force is going to war with the mission of nuking Japan.
 
There is the chance that the atomic bomb won’t be used right away. .

The big problems now would be the immediate shortage of nuclear weapons, there were a few bombs, then there was expected a wait before the bomb would be mass produced which would be a major investment, plus a desire to see what the money had been spent on would produce a strong desire to see just what the bomb could do operationally plus the problem of post-ww2 Europe. I cannot see the bomb use being delayed. As in the OTL, the US would want immediate use.

If the bomb will be ready a year early, might a special purpose Lancaster variant be thrown together? Add a couple more engines (either outboard of the existing ones, with a slightly lengthened wing, or mounted in parallel with Pusher props), and a pressurized cockpit?

I doubt the US would use a British plane for the first atomic bomb drop. Also officially the British wanted to distance themselves from the first use. The first claim of the British on it was that it was an independent US decision to use the atomic bomb. I cannot see a problem in this POD for the B-29 to be ready

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Silverplate
 
Top