The Anglo-American War 1937

This is my first timeline and its a speculative timeline of events that might have happened in Great Depression America if tensions with Great Britain over economic rights in the region became hot. In TTL Britain has managed to stave off the worst effects of Depression by depending on its Empire and establishing fairly successful inter-empire trade links especially on new plantations in the Caribbean. FDR has for health reasons been unable to run in the elections, leaving Hoover in power after having shown the ability to mount some economic success using private industries. Due to a military policy of economic and military intervention for American assets in the region Hoover is authorizing the construction of a Caribbean battle group. Having never signed the Washington Naval Treaty this alarms the British.

Unable to fight a naval war America decides to hold one of Britain's more successful colonies hostage. Thus activating War Plan Red

(See article for details http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red)

This is my first TL so comments are openly welcome and encouraged.


Anglo - American War


America suffering from the great depression in 1937 was currently headed by Herbert Hoover who had managed to squeak by in his election after one of his volunteer efforts in mining (headed by a major industrial firm and using quite brutal methods) shows promise. Many workers are cautious but sign up for jobs as Hoover tries to cut government spending and force issues.
In the Caribbean Hoover sees his chance to use the islands as a base for economic recovery. His backing of the Cuban dictator Batista leads to some moderate economic gains and Hoover decides that the production of dummy companies into public coffers would increasingly benefit him. They made several economic and immigration policies that would prevent British workers or settlers into areas under their influence in 1936 and began plans on constructing a larger Caribbean fleet.


This alarmed the Royal Navy as they felt themselves to be the dominant power in the world. No such treaties had been signed with them regarding a larger naval build up. Coupled with economic strains as the Great Depression hit home relations between the two nations largely, worsened. The deployment of an American Battle Group to the Caribbean was a serious dent in their relationship. However, items came to a head with the American occupation of Haiti.

The American military intervened in Haiti after American corporate interests were threatened by the rise of a radical socialist element in the government began to nationalize some businesses on the island. During the intervention there were British plantations that were ‘repossessed’ by American troops. There was national outrage in Britain as British citizens were killed in these incidents. There were terse words exchanged and a British Battle Group steamed into the Caribbean. A tense stand off ensued as the British demanded compensation for the loss of property and the death of its workers. The Hoover administration refused. The British responded with a punitive airstrike on an American base in Haiti. Three US soldiers were killed.
There was outrage as many American clamored for revenge and retribution. Hoover, fearful of taking on the Royal Navy in open water in the Caribbean, decided on a more overland route. British Imperial Trade policies had been fairly successful thus far at staving off massive economic burden and much of that had come from raw materials in Canada. Hoover saw an advantage. Hold the economically valuable Canada hostage in exchange for British co-operation in the Caribbean. This was seen by the Chiefs of Staff as an acceptable plan. Canada had no significant military bases or a very large military and more importantly unlike the Dominican Republic (a client state of Britain now after a British Intervention in 1923) no significant military garrison.
Quoting old words from the War of 1812 Hoover declared that taking Canada “would only be a matter of marching.” Military planners had long ago made plans for this under War Plan Red in which several avenues of attack were to be considered.


What the US hadn’t counted on was the pluckiness of the Canadians defending their homeland at the time.
 
This is my first timeline and its a speculative timeline of events that might have happened in Great Depression America if tensions with Great Britain over economic rights in the region became hot. In TTL Britain has managed to stave off the worst effects of Depression by depending on its Empire and establishing fairly successful inter-empire trade links especially on new plantations in the Caribbean. FDR has for health reasons been unable to run in the elections, leaving Hoover in power after having shown the ability to mount some economic success using private industries. Due to a military policy of economic and military intervention for American assets in the region Hoover is authorizing the construction of a Caribbean battle group. Having never signed the Washington Naval Treaty this alarms the British.

Unable to fight a naval war America decides to hold one of Britain's more successful colonies hostage. Thus activating War Plan Red

(See article for details http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red)

This is my first TL so comments are openly welcome and encouraged.


Anglo - American War


America suffering from the great depression in 1937 was currently headed by Herbert Hoover who had managed to squeak by in his election after one of his volunteer efforts in mining (headed by a major industrial firm and using quite brutal methods) shows promise. Many workers are cautious but sign up for jobs as Hoover tries to cut government spending and force issues.
In the Caribbean Hoover sees his chance to use the islands as a base for economic recovery. His backing of the Cuban dictator Batista leads to some moderate economic gains and Hoover decides that the production of dummy companies into public coffers would increasingly benefit him. They made several economic and immigration policies that would prevent British workers or settlers into areas under their influence in 1936 and began plans on constructing a larger Caribbean fleet.

This alarmed the Royal Navy as they felt themselves to be the dominant power in the world. No such treaties had been signed with them regarding a larger naval build up. Coupled with economic strains as the Great Depression hit home relations between the two nations largely, worsened. The deployment of an American Battle Group to the Caribbean was a serious dent in their relationship. However, items came to a head with the American occupation of Haiti.

The American military intervened in Haiti after American corporate interests were threatened by the rise of a radical socialist element in the government began to nationalize some businesses on the island. During the intervention there were British plantations that were ‘repossessed’ by American troops. There was national outrage in Britain as British citizens were killed in these incidents. There were terse words exchanged and a British Battle Group steamed into the Caribbean. A tense stand off ensued as the British demanded compensation for the loss of property and the death of its workers. The Hoover administration refused. The British responded with a punitive airstrike on an American base in Haiti. Three US soldiers were killed.
There was outrage as many American clamored for revenge and retribution. Hoover, fearful of taking on the Royal Navy in open water in the Caribbean, decided on a more overland route. British Imperial Trade policies had been fairly successful thus far at staving off massive economic burden and much of that had come from raw materials in Canada. Hoover saw an advantage. Hold the economically valuable Canada hostage in exchange for British co-operation in the Caribbean. This was seen by the Chiefs of Staff as an acceptable plan. Canada had no significant military bases or a very large military and more importantly unlike the Dominican Republic (a client state of Britain now after a British Intervention in 1923) no significant military garrison.
Quoting old words from the War of 1812 Hoover declared that taking Canada “would only be a matter of marching.” Military planners had long ago made plans for this under War Plan Red in which several avenues of attack were to be considered.


What the US hadn’t counted on was the pluckiness of the Canadians defending their homeland at the time.

Interesting idea...however...
1. Hoover was done in 1932. It didn't take FDR to beat him...anyone could have.
2. Hoover's actions here are completely at odds with the man himself...he was a hands-off type, and certainly would not start setting up government-run dummy companies in Caribbean - or anywhere else for that matter.
3. The last country in the world the RN wanted to fight was the USA, and certainly not in the Carribbean. With a resurgent Germany, dangerous Italy, Imperial Japan and unknown USSR, the British had more than enough on their plates.
4. There was an enormous peace faction in the USA. They are not going to support war with Britain under almost any circumstances.

Sorry, I'd go on, but this is just too ASB...

Mike Turcotte
 
Hoover still in power? He was dreadfully unpopular; any number of Democrats could've beaten him. Hell, I think even the Catholic, Tammany Hall-associated Al Smith - even conservative John Nance Garner - could've done it. Keep in mind that Hoover didn't even win 40% of the vote, and lost by 17.76%, the largest margin ever, in OTL.

I don't see the US not adopting a 'Good Neighbor' policy - Caribbean interventions, like in Nicaragua, had gotten to be expensive, frustratingly ineffective, and rather unpopular. Not that there wouldn't have been lines of conflict. Imperial Preference would've grated on the US; losing Canada as a trading partner would've been troublesome. Then again, it would also have been troublesome in Canada as well... and it's not enough for war. Tension, sure, but not war.

There would've been a WNT, or a building halt of some sort - the British couldn't stay in the naval arms race, Japan realized it couldn't win, and the US Congress was unwilling to spend the money needed to win the naval arms race.
 
Fun idea, but yea, you really need an earlier POD. Perhaps something around 1900 where the US and UK don't settle the Venesuela and Alaska border issues amicably, leading to bad blood. Anglo-Japanese alliance continues, this time against US Pacific interests. US stays out of WWI, leaning pro-German, and the end European peace is CP-favorable. Result has the US favoring the Kaiser against the King and the Emperor, setting up a totally different *WW2 scenario.
 
Fun idea, but yea, you really need an earlier POD. Perhaps something around 1900 where the US and UK don't settle the Venesuela and Alaska border issues amicably, leading to bad blood. Anglo-Japanese alliance continues, this time against US Pacific interests. US stays out of WWI, leaning pro-German, and the end European peace is CP-favorable. Result has the US favoring the Kaiser against the King and the Emperor, setting up a totally different *WW2 scenario.

So an earlier POD? Yeah I was hoping for a more isolated war but an alternate WW2 would be extremely interesting to explore.
 
I could see Huey Long doing some of these things... but he really wasn't a force in US politics in 1932. 36 maybe..
 
Some plausibility concerns aside, I’d be interested to see a continuation of the War Plan Red Scenario. Also two points....
1) Will the United States use chemical weapons against Halifax (as was suggested in one iteration of W.P.R.)?
2) Could Mackenzie King rally Quebecers to the cause, without conscription?
 

CalBear

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I would suggest that you might want to start with something that is a less dramatic chance from OTL for a first effort.

The massive butterflies from this sort of event make Jumbo Jets look like gnats.

As an example: The Royal Navy would suffer huge losses (as would the USN, but the RN would be playing on the U.S. home court). With the sort of losses likely in this war the RN would be unable to support the war against the Reich in any meaningful way. The UK would also lose all the massive Lend/Lease and financial backing that allowed England to make its brave solo stand in the West from Mid-1940 to January of 1942.

Really short version of this particular butterfly (and it is only one of many) is that Hitler win the Second World War (or Stalin does, either way it is a massive change).
 
Well I suppose I jumped the gun yeah. I do have a back up idea however. I was working on an alternate timeline for this from the start. There is a new one so I'll most likely post that one instead. I'm only having difficulty in the style I want to write it in.
 
Would France supporte the UK against the US? Probably not.

Hitler would side with the UK in exchange for a military alliance of a sort, Germany mobilises faster and trades ressources for industrial and military equippememnt.


For a casusu belli, why not a serie of sabotages blamed on the UK?
 
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