The Anglo/American - Nazi War

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MERRICA

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Or maybe not, after they saw Stettin get flattened. The message from the A4 is pretty clear: Germany will never be allowed to exist again, no matter the cost.

Calbear, I believe the last thing I read of TTL, it was 2012 and the US was about to launch the first Mars mission. Any plans to fill the TL out to 2017?

Still, Germans will always want to see their country unified. And wiping out a godamn city in an Election Year will go REALLY badly with the public. And again, this can easily by exploited by Political opponents by saying that the Bombing of Stettin is what Tyrants do, not what leaders of a democratic nation do.
 
Still, Germans will always want to see their country unified. And wiping out a godamn city in an Election Year will go REALLY badly with the public. And again, this can easily by exploited by Political opponents by saying that the Bombing of Stettin is what Tyrants do, not what leaders of a democratic nation do.

Except that ITTL, it is what they do. This is an act to prevent, in the eyes of the West, the violent resurgence of the nation which started a war that killed 190 MILLION people. The kid gloves have been off since 1954, and it'll be a long time before they're put back on.
 
Still, Germans will always want to see their country unified. And wiping out a godamn city in an Election Year will go REALLY badly with the public. And again, this can easily by exploited by Political opponents by saying that the Bombing of Stettin is what Tyrants do, not what leaders of a democratic nation do.
Thing is, all the Democratic nations DID do it, or at the very least nodded and said, "no problem."
 
Probably no legal prohibitions, but heavy social disapproval. The government might even go so far as to ban contraception (with the excuse of following Roman Catholic doctrine, if the 1968 encyclical Humanae Vitae was written the same ITTL.)
Given how depopulated TTL Europe has become, I get the feeling the contraception prohibition will happen earlier than OTL.
 
Given how depopulated TTL Europe has become, I get the feeling the contraception prohibition will happen earlier than OTL.
Maybe, or maybe the push to allow the Pill won't be so forceful so early, and the doctrine won't be promulgated so early.

Alternatively, maybe a very brave Pope issued it during the Nazi regime?
 

Teshuvah

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The Western Alaska borders are strongly defended, although there are stronger defenses on the Chinese side of the border than on the U.S. side. Same goes for the Yalu where it separates China and Korea. The Chinese are very much in the same situation as East Germany back during the recent unpleasantness, lost of folks would love to vote with their feet given half a chance.

The Chinese also expect the "West" to attack them any second. The truth is that the West would be perfectly happy to let the Chinese sit and stew.
This world's equivalent of "Nothing to Envy" must be a horrifying read. Imagine the culture shock a Chinese person would get upon seeing a Western Alaskan city.
 

CalBear

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Also, what kind of governments exist in the German States, I imagine them to be authoritarian and not Democratic at all since the German People would certainly vote for Pro-Unification candidates.
The governments are Democratic, but there are "legal" limitations. Each of the statelets, as part of their Constitutions (based on the "suggestions" of the WAllies) specifically folds in the elements of the conditions that ended hostilities. It is not only prohibited to take any actions toward reunification, but simply introducing legislation or voicing public suppor for the concept is illegal and results in automatic disqualification from any political or government employment for life. Think of OTL Germany's position on Nazism on steroids laced with Adderall.

Since the Constitutions also acknowledge that International Peacekeeping Forces (i.e. Polish, Vietnamese, and Philippine IPF troops) are fully recognized as having legitimate super law enforcement authority there is no chance of any politician managing to do anything legislative or even advocate for reunification.

Then there is Stettin. It will be the 23rd Century before anyone in Northwest Europe doesn't wince at the mention of that. That doesn't even consider the effect that visits to "The Barrier" has on kids who are required to make visits as part of school trips starting in 3rd Grade.

There is always the possibility that at some time in the future the A4 may relax on this, but there is still, 50 years post war, ZERO sentiment toward lightening up on the "Nazis" (the term "Germans" is usually only applied to individuals or groups pre-dating 1933, think OTL "Commies" when referring to Russians during the Cold War, but with more feeling of utter revulsion). The only support for reunification in the A4 (which is flatly the only group of states that matter) is among relatively small religious groups that take non violence as a matter of religious doctrine. The A4 political establishment listens to them very politely, counts the possible votes represented by the groups, and round files their petitions.

ATL Germany as a single nation-state is as dead as the Roman Empire.
 

CalBear

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Probably no legal prohibitions, but heavy social disapproval. The government might even go so far as to ban contraception (with the excuse of following Roman Catholic doctrine, if the 1968 encyclical Humanae Vitae was written the same ITTL.)
The societal pressure is vastly more effective than any law. Much of the East is still a howling wasteland and the Governments actively encourage large families, usually with financial incentives.

The Low Countries and France have recovered to the point that there is no longer any population issue, but families with six+ children as far from uncommon even in major urban area. The "younger" generation is moving rapidly toward an attitude that would be familiar IOTL.
 
I do wonder what the A4 would think of OTL Germany. I'd bet they be amazed that a united Germany HASN'T started WW3.
Honestly they would be shocked at how OTL Germany has done. Its military is negligence with it still a world leader. Its being so pacifist would be a shock. (Note I read modern Germany as fairly pacifist.)
 
They would literally be unable to process it. Total cognitive dissonance.

That's bad? Can't say a ISOT would go well then.

What about the surrender of Japan in 1945, the USSR, Cold War, Korea, Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam, end of Cold War, Balkan Wars, 9/11, and War on Terror? How would they see any of that?
 
The governments are Democratic, but there are "legal" limitations. Each of the statelets, as part of their Constitutions (based on the "suggestions" of the WAllies) specifically folds in the elements of the conditions that ended hostilities. It is not only prohibited to take any actions toward reunification, but simply introducing legislation or voicing public suppor for the concept is illegal and results in automatic disqualification from any political or government employment for life. Think of OTL Germany's position on Nazism on steroids laced with Adderall.

Since the Constitutions also acknowledge that International Peacekeeping Forces (i.e. Polish, Vietnamese, and Philippine IPF troops) are fully recognized as having legitimate super law enforcement authority there is no chance of any politician managing to do anything legislative or even advocate for reunification.

Then there is Stettin. It will be the 23rd Century before anyone in Northwest Europe doesn't wince at the mention of that. That doesn't even consider the effect that visits to "The Barrier" has on kids who are required to make visits as part of school trips starting in 3rd Grade.

There is always the possibility that at some time in the future the A4 may relax on this, but there is still, 50 years post war, ZERO sentiment toward lightening up on the "Nazis" (the term "Germans" is usually only applied to individuals or groups pre-dating 1933, think OTL "Commies" when referring to Russians during the Cold War, but with more feeling of utter revulsion). The only support for reunification in the A4 (which is flatly the only group of states that matter) is among relatively small religious groups that take non violence as a matter of religious doctrine. The A4 political establishment listens to them very politely, counts the possible votes represented by the groups, and round files their petitions.

ATL Germany as a single nation-state is as dead as the Roman Empire.

Of course that sentiment isn't going to go away any time soon.

The problem is that the Germans didn't just kill millions, but wiped out whole cultures, and committed multiple Pearl Harbors with some of the worst weapons imaginable on the Allies

The Nazis not only destroyed Paris, but gleefully created a home movie of it for the whole family to enjoy.

And another problem is that these events are still within collective memory.

The OTL Baby-Boomer would've grown up during the "Hot war", and would have had at least one father, uncle, older brother, or other relative fighting in the war, and a mother and older sister working some factory contributing to the war effort. They still remember, as children, the trauma of the 1954 attacks, their horror at seeing the nerve gas attacks that killed the British royal family, the destruction of Paris, and the war crimes trials. Some of them joined an ITTL peace corps to help rebuild these areas in the 60s and 70s. They met the surviving Slavic and French peoples who lost whole families to the Germans, and who would want nothing more than pulverize them into dust. American, British, Argentine, and North African Jews all dismayed at the total destruction of their European cousins.

A liberal college student may compare the A4 to Nazis over the destruction of Stettin, but the A4 have a clear, rational (from their point of view) reason for keeping Germany apart, and for dangling a reserve of nuclear weapons overhead on the rest of the world: they don't want the world to relive the horror again.

OTL, a common complaint is that America will fight a war for oil, but never a war to stop genocide. ITTL, they do that, and we still feel the need to complain over their methods.

I think there will even be hardcore nativist polices by the Poles. There might even heavy restrictions/banning of Childfree couples. For example, Polish politicians might make the claim that Childfree couples would " Rather spend their time in selfish pursuits than making sure that the Polish People do not again almost lose their identity and nationhood." There might also be an strict expectation that even if you were to be LGBTQ+, you had to have kids or adopt them and raised them in a traditional Polish manner.
The societal pressure is vastly more effective than any law. Much of the East is still a howling wasteland and the Governments actively encourage large families, usually with financial incentives.

The Low Countries and France have recovered to the point that there is no longer any population issue, but families with six+ children as far from uncommon even in major urban area. The "younger" generation is moving rapidly toward an attitude that would be familiar IOTL.

My guess is that in Eastern Europe by the present, there would be an extreme generation gap between those with memories of the war, and those born after it. The ITTL version of millennials in the region have lives completely different than what their ancestors faced.

The average 12-25 year old in Neo-Tsarist Russia, for example, enjoys American movies, Internet, and abundance. Meanwhile, their grandparents were the ones surviving in a genocidal, slavery system, and spent their later years rebuilding their decimated culture.

They would have strong disagreements over everything, from the treatment of the Germans to going to Church.

The elders call their young people "spoiled", while the young people called their elders "racist."

But the ITTL generation of young people, thanks to the high fertility rate of the countries, would also be very large. Similar to many poor African countries, where young people make up over half the population.

So a prosperous, large, young population growing weary of their conservative elders, could easily lead to a youth movement in the present day.

I do wonder what the A4 would think of OTL Germany. I'd bet they be amazed that a united Germany HASN'T started WW3.
Honestly they would be shocked at how OTL Germany has done. Its military is negligence with it still a world leader. Its being so pacifist would be a shock. (Note I read modern Germany as fairly pacifist.)
They would literally be unable to process it. Total cognitive dissonance.

I think, if they could use a temporal window to see OTL Germany, they would weep bitterly. As much as they mistreat the Germans, it is not done out of malice, but fear over what a united Germany could do. They wish they could live in a world where Germany was a prosperous and decent nation. Of course, they would also be envious of a world where Paris is still vibrant, the Poles and Russians weren't nearly exterminated, and where a Jewish state was created.
 
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CalBear

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That's bad? Can't say a ISOT would go well then.

What about the surrender of Japan in 1945, the USSR, Cold War, Korea, Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam, end of Cold War, Balkan Wars, 9/11, and War on Terror? How would they see any of that?
Dropping the A4 into OTL would be a shitstorm of absolutely epic proportion, especially if they were able to bring all their toys. Just the Western Alaska situation would be enough to push the Russians right to the edge, and would be before they figured out that the A4 could literally wipe Russia off the map in around five days without detonating a single nuclear weapon.

After that, well, after that, things would get untidy.
 
Dropping the A4 into OTL would be a shitstorm of absolutely epic proportion, especially if they were able to bring all their toys. Just the Western Alaska situation would be enough to push the Russians right to the edge, and would be before they figured out that the A4 could literally wipe Russia off the map in around five days without detonating a single nuclear weapon.

After that, well, after that, things would get untidy.
Would Russia really start that war or would the A4 start it? Or would there even be a war?
 
dose anime exist in this timeline. and also whats happening to Latin america besides Brazil and Portugal and Spain.
 

CalBear

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Would Russia really start that war or would the A4 start it? Or would there even be a war?
Hard to say. Putin tends to be big on bluster and bluff, he also is a big fan of counting bayonets. The A4, for all its extreme power, has a fairly small conventional force compared to OTL U.S. military.

A4 doesn't bluff, at all, and would see an aggressive nationalist demagogue who was trying to intimidate the West. They have seen that movie before.

Both sides would view the other through vastly different filters.
 
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