The Anglo/American - Nazi War

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CalBear

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During the Berlin offensive alone the Soviets lost 917 combat aircraft (in combat) and Bomber Command lost 288 in March/April. And 8th air force lost at least 280 aircraft from March 19th until early May. That means if the R4M destroyed just 100 British, 100 American and 200 Soviet aircraft it would allready have reached the 400 as claimed by the books I have provided. You and your supporters on the other hand claim that these numbers are wrong, yet have not provided any evidence to support this claim.

The only thing JN1 manged to throw at me was a link that claims that in a single engagement the R4M rocket destroyed 25 Allied bombers without any losses on the German side. Again - thanks for the help mate!
I'm sorry. You seem to think that this debate is going to continue.

I, along with others, have demonstrated, using multiple official sources, that you numbers are simply incorrect.

Here is another source that documents the figures several members have provided: https://8thafhs.org/combat1945.htm

You may choose to continue to accept your figures rather than the overwhelming preponderance of the evidence. However, that does not compel anyone, myself included, from continuing to debate when there is clearly no prospect of either side persuading the other of their position.

You have quite clearly not read the T/L, if you had you would know that the Reich most decidedly did not fight the war with 1945 equipment while the WAllies used 1960s equipment. That is, of course, your option.

I have read and responded to your feedback. There is quite literally nothing further to discuss as things stand.
 

Telakasi

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I, along with others, have demonstrated, using multiple official sources, that you numbers are simply incorrect.

Yeah keep telling yourself that. FACT is I have posted passages from 4 different books - you have posted the combat history of the 8th air force and it turned out that the numbers claimed by wiki are partially correct.
On 18th March close to 2000 aircraft were dispatched against Germany - and while the casualty numbers do not correspond (its 16 to 25 I think) you use this discrepancy to claim that the R4M didnt destroy 400 aircraft and therefore was not effective.

Both lines of this argumentation are severely flawed. Because 1. The Allies lost at least 1500 aircraft from 18th March to 8th May over Germany - therefore the claim of 400+ aircraft shot down by the R4M is possible.
And 2. Just because there were overreportings doesnt change the fact that the R4M was highly effective against Allied bombers. You and your supporters have yet to produce a source that states that the R4M was not effective and you will never be able to do so because this assertion is plain simply wrong.Therefore my original point of critique that had this weapon been used in larger numbers (without an Eastern Front a given) the Allies would have to cancel bombing by the end of 1945 at the latest still stands.

There is quite literally nothing further to discuss as things stand. Good day sir!
 
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Reminds me of a certain plan to attack the Third Reich from a certain set of small islands off the coast of the Netherlands...
 
Well, thank you. :D

If you happen to be closely related to the head of a major studio feel free to mention the T/L at Christmas. :p

Going even further, would be a graphic novel, a video game on all the current consoles and PC, and a fancy image encyclopedia for events, people, weapons that happen in this TL. Though to be, I feel as this TL may get some butchering through consumerism.
 
Question, there is reference to a "Reich Enclave" in Vladivostok in the Timeline that is seized by the Allies when the Hot War starts up again. What exactly did that entail? Was it a enhanced diplomatic presence or was it something along the lines of extraterritorial enclaves that the colonial powers had in China prior to World War One? How did the Soviet Union react when US Marines started landing on the Far East shore.

Speaking of which, there is reference in the timeline to the Western Allies, well the United States specifically, building airfields and bases in the Soviet Far East. What was the purpose of those bases? Was it an attempt to nudge the Soviet Union to rejoining the war against the Reich?
 
I'm not sure if someone already asked this question before but what is the tech level like ITTL? I can imagine it's advanced in some places but set back in others given how TTL's WWII was extended well beyond 1945.
 
About TL 8+1, in GURPS Terms. They are roughly equivalent to our level technology, but more advanced as to medicine and better application of space travel technology. We have stealth and ABM technology while they don't.
 

CalBear

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Question, there is reference to a "Reich Enclave" in Vladivostok in the Timeline that is seized by the Allies when the Hot War starts up again. What exactly did that entail? Was it a enhanced diplomatic presence or was it something along the lines of extraterritorial enclaves that the colonial powers had in China prior to World War One? How did the Soviet Union react when US Marines started landing on the Far East shore.

Speaking of which, there is reference in the timeline to the Western Allies, well the United States specifically, building airfields and bases in the Soviet Far East. What was the purpose of those bases? Was it an attempt to nudge the Soviet Union to rejoining the war against the Reich?
The Reich had actually taken over the Port and the area around the port it prevent the WAllies from sending military supplies to the USSR via that route (and to "inspect" i.e. steal anything that the Reich thought to be of value to the German State rather than let it get through to the Soviets. The Reich also had small garrisons of "peace keepers" along the farthest reaches of the Trans-Siberia Railroad, just in case the WAllies tried to sneak something in.

The assignment was always crappy duty, ATL version of "being sent to the Eastern Front" for Waffen SS troops, and especially officers, who screwed up, but it reached a whole different level of bad when the U.S. decided that the scenario was unacceptable. The under equipped (we are talking captured T-34 tanks and worn out, decade+ old bF-109s), poorly led forces were simply overwhelmed by the WAlled (e.g. USMC) offensive.
 

CalBear

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About TL 8+1, in GURPS Terms. They are roughly equivalent to our level technology, but more advanced as to medicine and better application of space travel technology. We have stealth and ABM technology while they don't.
About right. Renewable energy is also much more advanced, as is rail travel in the U.S. & Canada (maglev has put most short haul airlines out of business)
 
About right. Renewable energy is also much more advanced, as is rail travel in the U.S. & Canada (maglev has put most short haul airlines out of business)

Absent the orbitals (which would render such questions moot), who would win in a fight between TTL's A4 and OTL's NATO?
 

CalBear

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Be close, the A4 sort of doesn't care about nukes, and they have sub-orbital hypersonic bombers, but the navies of the ATL are much weaker, the ground forces are not large and are not quite at OTL 2015 tech levels.

If the war required movement across an ocean, and nukes were off the table, the A4 would be hard pressed to manage it against the number of SSN and carrier groups of OTL.
 
About TL 8+1, in GURPS Terms. They are roughly equivalent to our level technology, but more advanced as to medicine and better application of space travel technology. We have stealth and ABM technology while they don't.
8+1? Like as in 8 years and one? I don't get it, but I do get what you mean outside of GURPS talk.
 
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