The Anglo/American - Nazi War

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by CalBear, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. ghappy1000 Well-Known Member

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    Has anybody considered about what happened to the exiled Hohenzollern royals still alive after 1960 in this timeline?
     
  2. VoidTemplar Travelling through Dimensions

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    What happened to
    Lyndon B. Johnson
    Scoop Jackson
    Hubert Humphrey
    Mike Mansfield
    Howard Baker
    Sherrod Brown
    Dwight D. Eisenhower
    Enrico Berlinguer
    Pierre Trudeau
    Vladimir Putin
    Gorbachev
     
  3. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    Hiding in a cave, probably...
     
  4. JamesHunter Well-Known Member

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    Enough people blame the Bismarckian Reich for Hitler in OTL and here it will be even worse so yeah if they're alive they're keeping a very... very low profile.
     
  5. Lalli Well-Known Member

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    Putin probably is butterflied away. It is very unlikely that his parents even get out from Leningrad. And Gorbachev hardly is much better. If he was really lucky he might survive from Generalplan Ost but fi nto well, hopefully it happened quickly.

    There hardly will be much sympathy towards Germans. Might be that Germany is as nation so discredited that Germany is not very popular even among writers of alternate TLs.
     
  6. JamesHunter Well-Known Member

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    Well apart from rip roaring kurbstomp fics where the Allies suddenly invent weapons and tactics years ahead of time and beat up the German's by 1941. Although I suspect "France gets it right" fics are also rare due to their rep as Collaborationist scumbags ITTLM
     
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  7. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    OTL, the old Kaiser was actually pretty wary of Hitler, albeit because he wasn't interested in restoring the Hohenzollerns. He did say that Kristallnacht was horrific, but then when Hitler began winning victory after victory in the opening years of the war, he praised Hitler for restoring German pride. Of course, he died in 1941, before he could see the true nastiness of the Reich so...

    But the fact that he praised Hitler at one point might definitely be a blow to his reputation.

    TTL, movies of World War I might heavily demonize him as a proto-Hitler, exaggerating the war crimes of the German army.

    I can say, without hyperbole, that living in TTL Soviet Russia is much more deadly in living in OTL Somalia.

    I mean, here are the challenges Putin's parents would've faced: the surrender of the Soviet Union, which was effectively a death sentence for Soviet soldiers in captivity and partisans behind enemy lines. Let's say you can escape from these camps. Your best chance would be hiding in a forest, where you have to spend decades trying to eek out a living in the woods and evade Nazi soldiers (really slavecatchers). If you try to reach an area of relative stability, you have to travel the vast distances of the Soviet heartland to reach some kind of nation.

    If you go west, you'll be walking into Nazi occupied Europe, where the puppets will sell you to the Reich if they catch you.

    You could go to the USSR, but that is not a good option either: the USSR border guards could throw you back to the Nazis. Even if you evade detection, you risk being selected for "reparations". Your government could send you back to the death world of Nazism as part of their cowardly peace treaty, the second you break the ever-changing and mercurial laws of the totalitarian society.

    Let's say you managed to avoid being shipped to a forced labor camp and live a quiet (if poor) existence in the USSR: then comes 1959, and the Nazis decapitate the Molotov government. Suddenly, your country has collapsed and is fought over by a bunch of warlords who, like Molotov, would have traded you to save their own skin.

    You could try the central Asian states, but I can imagine the Central Asians have not enjoyed Russian rule. You could escape to the newly established Russian Tsarist Republic or Western Alaska, but you have to walk quite a distance to get there.

    So yeah: OTL Somalia was probably a safer place. The World War I trenches are probably safer.

    I wonder if on the ITTL AH.com, if bashing Germans will get you banned, since the TTL breakup of Germany will be seen as justified.
     
  8. President Earl Warren Well-Known Member

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    To be fair the vast majority of Germans, even anti Nazi dissidents like Wilm Hosenfeld, were ecstatic when the German army won the battle of France and they got to repay France for Vesaillse with abit extra, so thats not a thing which should really be layed at his feet. However the man was a definite anti semite, ranting about how the Jews had kicked him out of Germany. Thats going to really hurt him with later historians.
     
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  9. JamesHunter Well-Known Member

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    Probably depends. The usual (suggesting modern German's should all be killed in horrible ways) probably gets you in trouble, calling the Nazi's Various grades hellspawn probably not. After all ITTL virtually nobody on the board is likely to have not lost a family member either to the Nazi's or stopping them. Being nasty to Nazi's is probably ignored.

    Now defending the Nazi's probably isn't just a banning offence but probably a call the coppers one.
     
  10. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    Well, TTL, the concept of German unity is so horrifying that the A4 were willing to kill it with a space cannon. If they can get away with that TTL with almost no political backlash, then people on an AH.com could probably say things like "those wannabe Nazis had the nerve to start the same shit the 3rd time."

    Yeah, I can imagine hate crimes being outright illegal. TTL, 100 million deaths can be attributed to that.
     
  11. Frank Hart Be Who You Want To Be

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    The A4 are Hypocrites. Stettin was nuked precisely because of the hate and fear of German reunification (although 300 thousand is a small number compared to 100 million).
    Of course, there will be a double standard ITTL, with Germans being seen as anything but good by the rest of the world.
    I do see pacifists calling out the A4 on nuking Stettin. They became their worst enemy by doing so.
    Hopefully if the world continues to evolve beyond the 2010s, they'd be condemned for that.
     
  12. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    Well...

    Let me put it this way: how many people really cared when cities like Cologne and Dresden were razed to the ground by Allied bombing? How many people really cared when Tokyo was given the General Sherman treatment (I am saying this facetiously)?

    How many people care about drone strikes, despite the loss of civilian life? OTL, many people don't just because of 9/11?

    TTL, the people of Germany are guilty of their own 9/11 on TOP of the single greatest anthropogenic disaster since the Taiping Rebellion and the Mongol Conquests. And plenty of people who fought in TTL World War II and who grew up during this time are still alive today.

    Although you might be right in that some Americans might begin to question the harsh treatment that Germans get. But not enough people really care, and complaining about it could lead a person to accuse you of being "soft on fascism."
     
  13. Frank Hart Be Who You Want To Be

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    Unfortunately, that's true as well. Then again, history's written by the victors, and who are we to judge the crimes?
     
  14. SsgtC Ready to Call it a Day

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    I think this is the problem. To us, Stettin was a War Crime. But to the people of TTL, their psyche was horrifically scarred by the events of WWII. Remember, they live in a world where nuclear, biological and chemical weapons were used extensively. The war ended nearly 50 years ago, and people are still dying from the weapons used. In OTL, there aren't really any lasting signs of WWII. Cities were rebuilt, battlefields were transformed into farms, etc. In TTL multiple cities and thousands of acres of land have been rendered permanently uninhabitable. Including Paris, Berlin, Nuremberg, Warsaw and Moscow. This is not a pleasant world. Wiping Stettin off the map with a moon rock would be seen as fully justified and even probably even as a somewhat restrained response by only targeting one City.
     
  15. Jim Smitty Lost in my mind

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    Calbear I was wondering something. Have any of the German states ever put together a 9 Para rifle carbine thing for their police forces?
     
  16. JamesHunter Well-Known Member

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    IIRC they're banned from anything more than a 9mm pistol.

    True, although I think attitudes will shift slowly as the war generation retires and dies off. Probably by 2060 it will be seen like Dresden OTL before Irving's book of lies, over kill but an act of war none the less.

    Thankfully you probably won't have any David Irving clones faking evidence like with the "Destruction of Dresden" this time. So well it might be looked on with askance it won't be used by neo Nazi's to make Holocaust comparisons like Dresden in OTL.
     
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  17. Jim Smitty Lost in my mind

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    I couldn't remember if it was straight 9 Para was the limit of their ammo or if it was a straight 9 mm Para Pistol. That's why I asked if they were going to some odd ball 9 Para rifle carbine thing. Or if they wanted to get cute they could try for something akin to the Stechkin.

     
  18. JamesHunter Well-Known Member

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    I think trying to get any automatic weapons is grounds for being attacked by the A4.
     
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  19. SsgtC Ready to Call it a Day

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    Trying to get cute is why they got a moon rock dropped on them...
     
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  20. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    I just thought of a Polandball comic about Western Alaska.

    Basically, Western Alaskaball (drawn initially as a mini-Sovietball) is mistreated by his brutally abusive, drunken father Sovietball. Things get worse when Sovietball loses the war. In desperation, Sovietball sells Western Alaskaball to Nazi Germanyball as slave labor.

    After vicious conditions, Western Alaskaball (in rags and completely skinny) escapes but collapses on the snow. Just as he loses consciousness, he sees a shadow looming over him, but blacks out.

    When he wakes up, he finds himself in a bed with an IV of vodka. A nurse (Canadaball) kindly asks him how he is and what happened to him.

    Cut to Americaball waiting outside and smoking a cigarette. Canadaball bursts out of the room and begs Americaball to take the little guy in. Americaball complains about how he has 50 kids (states) to take care off, but then Sovietball (mean and drunk as ever) bursts in and rudely demanding his "lazy capitalist son" back. Western Alaskaball shivers in fear, which brings out Americaball's "freedom loving" instincts. He bellows at Sovietball to get out.

    Cut to Western Alaskaball bouncing down the hall with Americaball. Western Alaskaball wonders where they are going, but Americaball remains very tightlipped. Americaball opens a door and shows them Fem!Virginiaball (as a southern belle) and Massachusettsball (presented as a computer geek). The two present Western Alaskaball with application for statehood (a metaphor for adoption). Americaball offers him a chance to join the Union (join my family.) Western Alaskaball is stunned but accepts tearfully, and gives the three other countryballs a hug.

    Cut to the modern day Western Alaskaball happily celebrating 4th of July and looking with gratitude at a picture of his Union (family).