The Anglo/American - Nazi War

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xxmagex

Calbear

Question if you don't mind. I was reading about Denmark in OTL WW2 and got to wondering how the Jewish population of Denmark in the AANW TL fared. In our timeline, somewhere over 90% survived the war due to the Jewish population fleeing/being spirited to Sweden in 1943 ahead of a roundup. Those that stayed behind or were caught had the Danish government constantly asking questions about and checking up on their status, including red cross packages being sent, to the point where many of them also survived. Mind you that was only for a two year period, in AANW it would have been for much longer. Was the 1943 exodus to Sweden duplicated in that TL and if so how did they fare?
 

CalBear

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xxmagex said:
Calbear

Question if you don't mind. I was reading about Denmark in OTL WW2 and got to wondering how the Jewish population of Denmark in the AANW TL fared. In our timeline, somewhere over 90% survived the war due to the Jewish population fleeing/being spirited to Sweden in 1943 ahead of a roundup. Those that stayed behind or were caught had the Danish government constantly asking questions about and checking up on their status, including red cross packages being sent, to the point where many of them also survived. Mind you that was only for a two year period, in AANW it would have been for much longer. Was the 1943 exodus to Sweden duplicated in that TL and if so how did they fare?
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Fewer escaped, partly because the Swedes were understandably concerned about upsetting a Reich that was the master of the entire European Peninsula, and partly because the Reich had more time to push "friendly" leadership into the Danish government.
 

xxmagex

CalBear said:
Fewer escaped, partly because the Swedes were understandably concerned about upsetting a Reich that was the master of the entire European Peninsula, and partly because the Reich had more time to push "friendly" leadership into the Danish government.
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How is Denmark over all? I suspect it was out of the way of major land combat during the liberation of Europe. Also, did the borders change? In OTL, the transfer of land to Denmark as a part of the Treaty of Versailles was the only land transfer that the Nazis never complained about.
 

naraht

xxmagex said:
How is Denmark over all? I suspect it was out of the way of major land combat during the liberation of Europe. Also, did the borders change? In OTL, the transfer of land to Denmark as a part of the Treaty of Versailles was the only land transfer that the Nazis never complained about.
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According to https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...merican-nazi-war.140356/page-299#post-5017662 , they were hit somewhat by the bio weapons but not too badly. Equivalent economy in OTL 2010:Chile.
 

David Ritz

Good Evening, CalBear.

On page 149, I made a post asking a few questions regarding surveillance and the state if certain regions. I was wondering if you could answer it please.
 

CalBear

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David Ritz said:
Out of curiosity, what is state and private surveillance like in this TL? On the one hand, there are far fewer despotisms or anything like OTL's post-1960s terrorism to create demand for it. OTOH, the A4's obsession with control coupled with its massive military-industrial complex could certainly create such incentives.

I am somewhat curious about national flags in this TL, especially those of the A4, India, Russia, and China. Do Canada and Australia still have the same flags as OTL (Canada may still have a variant of the Red Ensign, while Australia may have a less "British" flag)?

What is the status of Iceland, the Faroes and Greenland?

Finally, what is the state of Wahhabism like in this TL? I'll take it that with many other energy-rich areas available to the A4, coupled with greater advancements in alternative energy, nothing like OTL OPEC formed. Subsequently, the Gulf States (especially Saudi Arabia) wouldn't have become as rich.

Speaking of energy-rich areas, how is Venezuela doing?
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There are still despots, they just tend to be much better behaved, especially on international issues. The unquestioned leader in domestic surveillance however is the Chinese Cabal. between informants secret policy and a well ingrained "report traitors" mindset (and draconian, but not so brutal as to bring the A4 down, laws regarding collective guilt)very little happens in China that the State does not learn of.

I never really thought about flags, to be perfectly honest. The Tsarist Republic would have gone back to the Russian tricolor that had been the national flag since 1696. Outside of that, it isn't a detail I really considered.

Ultra conservative Islam exists (as does fundamentalist teaching in other religions) but, as you correct note, the House of Saud doesn't have the same level of wealth to be used for "missionary" work.

Iceland is an independent country. Greenland was given the choice of self determination as a region under WAllied protection during the Final Phase and chose association with Canada, primarily due to economics. The Faroes chose independence, although there is a very close relationship with the UK and an increasing relationship with Denmark as the country gets its feet back under it.
 

David Ritz

Thank you for your reply. I was also wondering if the ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe (i.e. Sudetens, Romanian Germans, Volga Germans) are still ethnically cleansed after the TTL Second World War.
 

CalBear

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David Ritz said:
Thank you for your reply. I was also wondering if the ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe (i.e. Sudetens, Romanian Germans, Volga Germans) are still ethnically cleansed after the TTL Second World War.
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Sadly, very much so. The WAllies had to put the equivalent of several divisions of troops into Central and Southeastern Europe, General Government and the former USSR to even get them OUT of the area in one piece.

The fact that they had been treated far better, even often as true members of the Volk, by the Reich during almost two decades of occupation made them "the enemy", even when they had done nothing wrong, or even tried to protect their neighbors (there was always someone new to the area, or just passing through, who had lost three generations of their family via "Extermination through Labor" who didn't much care about individual guilt).

It was a couple decades before ethnic Germans could safely walk the streets in Poland, and that was mainly because a majority of the Polish population was reverse immigrants from the Commonwealth, UK and U.S.
 

Bookmark1995

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I wonder if you ISOTed a nation from ITTL 2018 to OTL 1939. Maybe...Vietnam, or Algeria, or French Guiana. And the uptime leadership tries to warn the world about what would happen ITTL once the Nazis would dominate all of Continental Europe.

Here is what I think could happen:

Every Western European person will fight to the fucking death once the Nazis invade rather than surrender, knowing what the Nazis would do them once they began collapsing in 1958-1959.

Stalin would purge his associates, but also end trade with Hitler.

Roosevelt might risk impeachment to get into the war in any possible way, even if it means baiting the Nazis into attacking American ships.

Germany's aristocratic class will risk their lives to try and kill Hitler and his band of monsters, eager to prevent the future destruction, division, and disgrace of their proud nation.
 

bsmart

Bookmark1995 said:
I wonder if you ISOTed a nation from ITTL 2018 to OTL 1939. Maybe...Vietnam, or Algeria, or French Guiana. And the uptime leadership tries to warn the world about what would happen ITTL once the Nazis would dominate all of Continental Europe.

Here is what I think could happen:

Every Western European person will fight to the fucking death once the Nazis invade rather than surrender, knowing what the Nazis would do them once they began collapsing in 1958-1959.

Stalin would purge his associates, but also end trade with Hitler.

Roosevelt might risk impeachment to get into the war in any possible way, even if it means baiting the Nazis into attacking American ships.

Germany's aristocratic class will risk their lives to try and kill Hitler and his band of monsters, eager to prevent the future destruction, division, and disgrace of their proud nation.
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Or they they wouldn't believe you at all would isolate you and things would plod along. Things never go as good as you hope they will so there is no way everyone will do the 'right' thing.
 
EnglishCanuck

EnglishCanuck

I was rereading this recently, and it was just so fun reading about the U-2 being used to spy on the Reich. This is such an excellent story and I'm glad it keeps up some discussion even today.
 

CalBear

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Bookmark1995 said:
I wonder if you ISOTed a nation from ITTL 2018 to OTL 1939. Maybe...Vietnam, or Algeria, or French Guiana. And the uptime leadership tries to warn the world about what would happen ITTL once the Nazis would dominate all of Continental Europe.

Here is what I think could happen:

Every Western European person will fight to the fucking death once the Nazis invade rather than surrender, knowing what the Nazis would do them once they began collapsing in 1958-1959.

Stalin would purge his associates, but also end trade with Hitler.

Roosevelt might risk impeachment to get into the war in any possible way, even if it means baiting the Nazis into attacking American ships.

Germany's aristocratic class will risk their lives to try and kill Hitler and his band of monsters, eager to prevent the future destruction, division, and disgrace of their proud nation.
Click to expand...
Assuming they could convince people they were for real (which wouldn't be that hard, considering that both Algeria and Vietnam operate high performance jets ATL), along with computers, advanced SAM, a raft of medical tech, etc. there would clearly be a rush to crush the Reich before it got too big.

How immediately successful that would be depends, in part, on when in 1939, the Reich substantially improved its forced between January and September, thanks to the acquisition of the Czech military stockpile and the very well developed Czech weapon industry as a supplement to the existing German and Austrian capacity. In January a full out push by the French, British, Poles, and Soviets (along with whatever the U.S. could manage to pull together on short notice) would more or less envelop the Reich. Later it gets to be a bit more difficult, but it would also allow the NKVD and GRU to get personnel in position to kill Hitler and all his minions, assuming the Heer doesn't just save everyone else the trouble and string the bastards up on the handiest light pole.
 

Bookmark1995

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CalBear said:
Assuming they could convince people they were for real (which wouldn't be that hard, considering that both Algeria and Vietnam operate high performance jets ATL), along with computers, advanced SAM, a raft of medical tech, etc. there would clearly be a rush to crush the Reich before it got too big.

How immediately successful that would be depends, in part, on when in 1939, the Reich substantially improved its forced between January and September, thanks to the acquisition of the Czech military stockpile and the very well developed Czech weapon industry as a supplement to the existing German and Austrian capacity. In January a full out push by the French, British, Poles, and Soviets (along with whatever the U.S. could manage to pull together on short notice) would more or less envelop the Reich. Later it gets to be a bit more difficult, but it would also allow the NKVD and GRU to get personnel in position to kill Hitler and all his minions, assuming the Heer doesn't just save everyone else the trouble and string the bastards up on the handiest light pole.
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Of course, that would be only HALF the job of the uptimers. The first job is stomping on the Nazis, the second job is ensuring postwar peace (more imperative in a TL that witnessed the profligate use of chemical and biological weapons)

That would require that a certain elephant in the room is cooperative: i.e. Joe Stalin.

Could uptimers actually prevent him from trying to impose his will on Eastern Europe, or would they have little choice but to hand him Eastern Europe?
 
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