The Anglo/American - Nazi War

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by CalBear, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. CalBear Your Ursus arctos californicus Moderator Moderator Donor

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    Surprisingly similar to OTL. The State has far less revenue coming in, but it also has, relative to OTL, a minuscule military. No real navy to speak of, obviously no Strategic Rocket Forces, and a much smaller armored component. Most of the Red Army (kept the name, lost the strength) is dedicated to keeping people from, as mentioned, escaping to, well, anywhere that will take them (the Cabal tends to shoot "infiltrators", largely with a wink & nod from the Soviet government). The "death zone" along the Western Alaska border alone requires about 1/3 of the total Red Army Ration Strength. Without the overhead of supporting the largest land army on Earth, massive strategic forces, etc. the USSR is just about the same economic shambles as IOTL.

    Really crappy place to live, secret police out the ying-yang, zero trust between people, show trials, the whole package. About all that keeps the Soviets afloat is imported grain, much of it bought by the American, Australian, and Canadian governments to help stabilize domestic grain prices, and sold to the Soviets at below wholesale. Still way better than China.
     
  2. CalBear Your Ursus arctos californicus Moderator Moderator Donor

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    It did, it also led to laws being changed, especially after the war when "our boys came home" and started into political life.
     
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  3. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    You know what would be interesting idea: the story of an Alabama good old boy who entered the war a foul racist, but came back from the war with his racism gone.

    The combined experience of witnessing the results of Nazi atrocities, and serving alongside Indians and black Americans end up changing that person for the better.
     
  4. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    Has the world considered not giving them grain? Wouldn't they want this pariah state to just collapse?

    Why don't the US and Western Russia team up to destroy them?
     
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  5. CalBear Your Ursus arctos californicus Moderator Moderator Donor

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    A4 already starved one opponent to death ATL.

    Once was sufficient.
     
  6. Coffeelatte Well-Known Member

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    That and I see the USSR being too hard to deal with in terms of rebuilding.
     
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  7. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    Well, they had no problem obliterating all of Stettin, so I don't see why they would be bothered getting rid of those Siberian jerks.
     
  8. Jim Smitty Lost in my mind

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    My hunch would be it means putting boots on the ground. Its not something they want to do IMO otherwise they would when after the Chinese already
     
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  9. CalBear Your Ursus arctos californicus Moderator Moderator Donor

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    uh...

    Sure.
     
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  10. xxmagex Well-Known Member

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    Remember the effect Japan had the A4 military. What was encountered by the A4 when then occupied Japan in November '46 was horrifying. From what I've read of the timeline, they were faced with a situation where Japanese society had ceased to exist and was almost post-apocalyptic in nature. When the final stages of the European war saw the Oxcart/Plowshare Directive implemented, quite a few military personnel refused to participate, Jocko Clark is the most prominent name that comes to mind.

    Mind you this was against Nazi Germany in the ultimate struggle for survival, even then there was honorable dissent to starving out the enemy. Here we have a shrunken Soviet Union that is no threat beyond a short distance from its borders. They might do it to China if they figured out what the Cabal was up to, but the Soviets who are no real threat? I just can't see it when the A4 would have the option of an decapitation nuclear strike.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  11. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    I see. As harsh as they are, the A4 are not Nazis. They do not relish in such horror.
     
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  12. Historyman 14 Well-Known Member

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    A little random, but how would the war and aftermath affect the views on the 'Great Man Theory' and those that goes with it. (Napoleon, Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great, Kings and rules with great amounts of power. Same for those who had absolute power, good, bad, or in the middle.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  13. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    I read something very interesting: the Mongols ended up killing so many people that they may have caused the little Ice Age.

    Why? Their invasions lead to the mass death of a lot of people. This led to many ecosystems recovering, reforestation, and cooling since all those trees absorbed a lot of CO2.

    Would something similar happen ITTL? The death of so many, many people creating so much free space for the environment, that it leads to a period of global cooling?
     
  14. President Earl Warren Well-Known Member

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    @CalBear how does the American south vote? I’m guessing Democratic due to no mass disillusionment from the civil rights movement.
     
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  15. Enigmajones Ours Is The Fury

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    @CalBear Just a question, I was checking out B Munros map of the 2012 world of AANW and was wondering when did the UK annex the portion of Coastal France, and how its administered, as opposed to say Wales or Scotland? What I mean is do the natives consider themselves British? Do they speak English or French? And is France or the French people eager to retake the territories?
     
  16. Johannes Parisiensis Well-Known Member

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    There's plenty of towns in Eastern Europe which looks like Saint-Pierre, Martinique after the Mount Pélée eruption (the municipality ended up being rattached to a neighbouring one from 1910 to 1923).

    Coastal France is part of the Duchy of Normandy, and is mainly French-speaking, with more and more of English-speakers.

    There's still irredentism, although less and less intense.
     
  17. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    You mean, they are covered with Ash?
     
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  18. CalBear Your Ursus arctos californicus Moderator Moderator Donor

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    The Coastal Departments of France that was under WAllied control used the 'self determination" policy that allowed any region under "Allied protection or Fascist Occupation" between 1/1/1950 thru 3/15/1960 to determine if they wished to remain part of their previous nation or (it was mistakenly believed, to go independent) voted to request communion with the British Crown as a Crown Dependency. This was the same process that caused the U.S. to wind up with the Netherlands Antilles and Western Alaska, Canada to wind up Guadeloupe and Martinique as provinces and French and Dutch Guiana to align with British Guiana. Most of France's other Overseas departments and colonies voted for independence, leave France stripped of just about everything not on the Continent. It was also how the Tsarist Republic happened. It is also why Israel doesn't exist ATL since the vote in Palestine was to form an Arab state.

    Remaining a department of France would have meant almost instant and dramatic reduction in quality of life, France was damned bear as damaged as the Reich, having been the ground the elephants trampled during their fight. Returning to the USSR would have meant going from the prospect of democracy and really high quality of life to returning to the Communist government and the terrors of the KGB. Instead these regions went for the better life for themselves and their families.

    Understandably this sort of irritated the French and the Soviets, something that, frankly, bothered the A4 not at all. France wanted to regain all their lost territory so badly that the government effectively cut off their collective noses by refusing reconstruction aid, membership in the UN while trying for decades to reverse what was a done deal. The Soviets actually had a go at the Tsarist Republic, the British, supported by the rest of the A4, put a stop to that quite nicely, without having to resort to heavy bombing or use of special weapons.

    This is discussed in a little more detail in the last actual post of the T/L and in the afterwords/post scripts.
     
  19. CalBear Your Ursus arctos californicus Moderator Moderator Donor

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    There is no "Solid South" by 1900. The Democratic Party gradually lost support as it became somewhat more "liberal" while the GOP gained some. There is, by ATL, a increasing number of Freedom Party voters in the South.
     
  20. President Earl Warren Well-Known Member

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    So essentially it leans Democratic but not with the Stalinist margins it had in the past
     
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