The Anglo/American - Nazi War - The on-going mystery
- Thread starter CalBear
- Start date
The Bridge Generation?
That's the thing: the A4 don't know about the synthetic plague.
I have the idea that the whole cohort born from 1940-1960 are called the Wartime Generation (the equivalent of the OTL Silent Generation) and those from 1960-1985 are called the Atomic Agers (the equivalent of the OTL Baby Boomers).
I think its more hit Calbear's limit of destroying the planet with him not wanting to go there. Because from the way I read it between the lines its going to be apocalyptic or near that level of death and destruction
If the Rods of God come falling on China, does the Cabal have means to retaliate? Such as launch the plague to nearby A4 allies like Japan, Korea, Vietnam, and the Philippines?
Cabal should launch their bioweapon firstly. This would give A4 justification for launch their wrath. Or then Cabal should commit genocide or declare war but they are not that stupid.
And when A4 attacks, Cabal has not ways to answer for that attack.
Is there evidence that the Cabal is committing genocide on anyone not Han Chinese? If memory serves, the Cabal are revanchist and chauvanistic to anyone not Han Chinese. Did the Cabal also take over Tibet, Xinjiang, Formosa, and Mongolia?
I was told that Cabal China is basically a large North Korea but without nuclear weapons to deter a first-strike from the A4.
I’ve been thinking recently (having read through this thread for ideas for my own timeline [thanks again CalBear]) that if the war hadn’t resumed until the 60s, then the Allies May have just decided by that point to go full SIOP-62 on Germany and most of Western Europe.
If the war hadn’t resumed in ‘54, I do think the Allies (the Brits in particular) would have to downsize their army to be able to stay afloat financially, and compensate for this by upping the nuclear game.
Potential scenario:
- Heydrich survives Anthropoid
- Himmler dies in a Partisan assassination whist visiting Waffen-SS forces in 1950-ish and Heydrich replaces him
- Hitler dies earlier (in AANW-verse), say 1953 and never orders the St Patrick’s Day Raids
- A Heydrich-Speer duopoly succeeds Hitler (I’m not 100% familiar on Nazi power dynamics, but this seems like it could work)
- The Warm War continues through the 1950s and into the 1960s, during which:
- The Allies continue to increase their nuclear stockpiles
- The costs of the HUGE standing armies doing nothing adds up, maybe also idle soldiers causing unrest, and the ground forces are downsized
- The Allied Naval and air forces remain mostly the same
- Anglo-American strategic air forces have developed SIOP style plans to launch an all-out strike against the Nazis
- The Nazis continue to suck Europe dry of resources, slave labour (and general will to live in many areas)
Thereby the Reich ends up in a ”do-or-die” scenario when they end up running on empty where they perceive doing nothing as certain defeat whilst doing something may work (and when I say may, I mean extremely unlikely, but desperate dictators can justify anything to themselves). Let’s say that by 1965 the Reich has reached such a weak stage where it all starts going wrong and the leadership (lets assume it’s Heydrich) believes that one show of strength is enough to shock the Allies into a status-quo peace (sort of like OTL Korea, or the 1956 Russia-Japan declaration).
The Germans conduct said show of force (largely akin to St Patrick’s Day Raids) c.1965, striking British (and possibly American) cities. Then the following happens:
- The Germans offer a status-quo peace which the Allies promptly refuse.
- The British react to this attack by nuking 6-7 German cities (CalBear said that this nearly happened after the St Patrick’s raids, so it’s possible)
- Germany reacts by dropping nerve gas on British cities
- The SIOP-esque plan is enacted after the nerve gas strikes (I am making it up from here on in):
- Basically all of Germany, France and the Low Countries are totally destroyed
- Italy gets its teeth knocked out, losing Rome and other major cities
- Norway also suffers intensely, but not as much as Germany
- The Balkans and the rest of Southern Europe gets off relatively lightly
- Eastern Europe falls into anarchy with Nazi authority gone
What do you guys think of this? Is this a somewhat plausible scenario? If so, where from here? Can the Allies deploy forces to Europe? Maybe only to key strategic areas like the Channel ports or Scandinavia?
What do you think?
If the war hadn’t resumed in ‘54, I do think the Allies (the Brits in particular) would have to downsize their army to be able to stay afloat financially, and compensate for this by upping the nuclear game.
Potential scenario:
- Heydrich survives Anthropoid
- Himmler dies in a Partisan assassination whist visiting Waffen-SS forces in 1950-ish and Heydrich replaces him
- Hitler dies earlier (in AANW-verse), say 1953 and never orders the St Patrick’s Day Raids
- A Heydrich-Speer duopoly succeeds Hitler (I’m not 100% familiar on Nazi power dynamics, but this seems like it could work)
- The Warm War continues through the 1950s and into the 1960s, during which:
- The Allies continue to increase their nuclear stockpiles
- The costs of the HUGE standing armies doing nothing adds up, maybe also idle soldiers causing unrest, and the ground forces are downsized
- The Allied Naval and air forces remain mostly the same
- Anglo-American strategic air forces have developed SIOP style plans to launch an all-out strike against the Nazis
- The Nazis continue to suck Europe dry of resources, slave labour (and general will to live in many areas)
Thereby the Reich ends up in a ”do-or-die” scenario when they end up running on empty where they perceive doing nothing as certain defeat whilst doing something may work (and when I say may, I mean extremely unlikely, but desperate dictators can justify anything to themselves). Let’s say that by 1965 the Reich has reached such a weak stage where it all starts going wrong and the leadership (lets assume it’s Heydrich) believes that one show of strength is enough to shock the Allies into a status-quo peace (sort of like OTL Korea, or the 1956 Russia-Japan declaration).
The Germans conduct said show of force (largely akin to St Patrick’s Day Raids) c.1965, striking British (and possibly American) cities. Then the following happens:
- The Germans offer a status-quo peace which the Allies promptly refuse.
- The British react to this attack by nuking 6-7 German cities (CalBear said that this nearly happened after the St Patrick’s raids, so it’s possible)
- Germany reacts by dropping nerve gas on British cities
- The SIOP-esque plan is enacted after the nerve gas strikes (I am making it up from here on in):
- Basically all of Germany, France and the Low Countries are totally destroyed
- Italy gets its teeth knocked out, losing Rome and other major cities
- Norway also suffers intensely, but not as much as Germany
- The Balkans and the rest of Southern Europe gets off relatively lightly
- Eastern Europe falls into anarchy with Nazi authority gone
What do you guys think of this? Is this a somewhat plausible scenario? If so, where from here? Can the Allies deploy forces to Europe? Maybe only to key strategic areas like the Channel ports or Scandinavia?
What do you think?
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Your scenario... it manages to make AANW Europe look hopeful, and that's probably downplaying it.
I don’t think France or the Low Countries would be hit that hard. Fortified coastal areas in France might be to make way for possible invasion, but at this point the Allies have not encountered stiff resistance from any local forces, and would be more open to arming locals to fight off whatever Germans are still around.
TBH that scenario was just a thought experiment of mine, and I did transplant the OTL SIOP plans for nuclear war to this universe.
Yeah. Do we need even more dystopic Europe than original AANW? Nazi regime lasts some years longer meaning more death and destruction. And yet nuking basically whole Europe from France to Russia makes things really messy and horrible for people.
Probably not. I wrote it up at 4AM (UK time) ‘cause I couldn’t sleep!
How was the 60th anniversary of the end of The Hot War commemorated on March 13, 2020 for TTL?
OTL COVID-19 is butterflied away but Cabal is going to launch its own pandemic. And it is going to be worse than OTL COVID pandemic.
There's no COVID to begin with a POD going back to 1942-43.
The biggest concern here is that the Cabal in China may launch a bioterrorist attack on nearby India (a frenemy of the A4) and A4 allies like Vietnam, Thailand, Japan, Korea, and the Philippines. The bioweapons is alleged to be a stronger version of Anthrax or whatever fucked up shit the Japanese did in Unit 731, which the Cabal captured.
Going back to the discussion, assuming there was COVID or a similar pandemic, I think the A4 would have been more efficient compared to the OTL's response.