The Anglo/American - Nazi War - The on-going mystery

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Much appreciated Calbear.

That KIA ratio discrepancy between both sides is really something. I suppose the Cabal command's military acumen couldn't make up for the fact that they were coming fresh from a continuous, decades-long series of conflicts that had really weakened China and had not yet recovered to develop a sufficient industrial-technological base to modernise?
They walked from a low-tech war where a couple decades old T-34s were a strong tactical advantage onto a battlefield with anti-tank weapons that could peel a T-34 like a potato. They had some piston engine fighters that dated back the War with China. and some Il-10s they had bought from the Soviets at fire sale prices. They couldn't even reach the altitude the UN B-52s were bombing from and the bombers were 180mph faster. UN fighers make mincemeat out of the Chinese piston engined CAS aircraft.

That they lasted five years was a testament to their skills in low tech, out in the boonies, "no, we can't get a tank up there" positional fighting, along with a reluctance among the UN senior combat leadership to spend blood like water. Pretty much what the PRC's "volunteers" did IOTL but without any MiG 15s to harass the bomber formations. Americans finally got tired of taking casualties and having to explain to the voters why they were paying some much taxes to support a military that "couldn't defeat a bunch of yahoos with 50 year old rifles".
 
You can hide quite a bit as long as you are subtle. The Nazis were pretty obvious but even they mainly got away with it for years. The Chinese are not really interested in wiping out millions of people retail, they are looking at wholesale slaughter. Their actions against segments of their own population are easy to hide, given the very large population, the more or less total absence of outside observers, and the regular movement of large groups of agricultural workers following crops. When you re moving 100,000 workers by train, it is pretty easy to "disappear" a couple thousand of them, and there are plenty of mines in China, some of which are a lot less productive than the occasional Intel photos seem to indicate.

The Chinese did run a test using a lab created bacterial pathogen, using the Soviets (who are as close as they have to an ally ATL) in 2015. It was successful as a "proof of concept" for the technique and as a test to see if anyone would twig to it being engineered (they used thw Soviets are a test target in the belief that, if someone figured out it was manmade they would blame the Soviets). The British took samples, identified it as something brand new, completely whiffed on it being human engineered. There was some considerable happiness at the next Council of Leaders Conference.
Frankly at this point I just want to see what the Cabel v A4 war looks like in the same way I look at a car crash. You know the stuff is what nightmares are made of but you got to know.
 
IOTL the Reich killed 6 million Jews and there are currently over 300 Holocaust museums and memorials worldwide. ITTL the Reich killed over 80 million Slavs and enslaved millions more as chattel on top of razing entire cities so who knows what their commemoration would look like.
I'm sure the cathedrals double as memorials.
What is the economy policy of the Cabal @CalBear , and how do they feed the overpopulated masses?
Surely palatial economy, which allows the leadership to utterly control the economic output of China and distribute services and goods to favored classes.
In really sick religious cults, the leader of the cult behaves the same way: he makes himself out as a god and savior, while ordering you sacrifice for Him. Jim Jones and his Peoples' Temple operated like one big psychotic, parasitic boyfriend. He started out with noble aims: helping the poor and downtrodden of Indiana. But considering how abusive and manipulative he had been, it seems like he was hungering for power and control over others. He basically beat people, forced himself sexually on them, claimed their social security checks, and conned them with fake miracles. And yet, he insisted "I'm doing this for your own good." And when people dared to question the conditions of Jonestown and left, he murdered his own followers. I don't call it mass suicide, since he held people at gunpoint and forced them to drink the poisoned punch.
We can also notice how some of these cult leaders somewhat "contaminate" their flock with their own issues: for exemple David Berg, who was sexually abused by his nanny when 12, had the Children of God practise paedophilia and incest.
 
Frankly at this point I just want to see what the Cabel v A4 war looks like in the same way I look at a car crash. You know the stuff is what nightmares are made of but you got to know.
I feel like a good epilogue to this TL (that avoids the horror of seeing another devastating war in real time) would be the reopening of the Berlin and Nuremberg quarantine zones when the anthrax contamination finally dissipates in 300-odd years, since it would be interesting to see what kinds of people are there to reopen it by that time, with hints of how the world got there. Perhaps the A4 nations had weathered the fall of China, and their militaries are still there to reopen Berlin. Maybe they're the A5, as fighting together against China permanently healed the rift between the A4 and India, or a world government entirely. Or civilization on Earth doesn't survive the war, but the people of the Lunar colonies do. They should be back home by then, having recolonized the Earth. Or against all odds, China had successfully deployed its super-plague and exterminated the rest of the world. As the Chinese soldiers move into Berlin they see what street signs are left but don't understand them, with them being written in a long-dead language. Or there's no one to reopen the areas because none have survived the apocalyptic result of China's endgame, and the world outside the walls is just as dead and quiet as inside.

In all, I find it a bit of a poignant idea since while most cities will be rebuilt, the radiation and bioweapon effects will fade away, and living memory of the war will die along with the people who experienced it, but Berlin and Nuremberg will be the last, permanent reminders of the darkest period in world history. And when the outside world sealed them off, they promised to do better, and never let it happen again. When it's finally time to reopen them to the world, we'll see if that world has kept its promise.
 
I feel like a good epilogue to this TL (that avoids the horror of seeing another devastating war in real time) would be the reopening of the Berlin and Nuremberg quarantine zones when the anthrax contamination finally dissipates in 300-odd years, since it would be interesting to see what kinds of people are there to reopen it by that time, with hints of how the world got there. Perhaps the A4 nations had weathered the fall of China, and their militaries are still there to reopen Berlin. Maybe they're the A5, as fighting together against China permanently healed the rift between the A4 and India, or a world government entirely. Or civilization on Earth doesn't survive the war, but the people of the Lunar colonies do. They should be back home by then, having recolonized the Earth. Or against all odds, China had successfully deployed its super-plague and exterminated the rest of the world. As the Chinese soldiers move into Berlin they see what street signs are left but don't understand them, with them being written in a long-dead language. Or there's no one to reopen the areas because none have survived the apocalyptic result of China's endgame, and the world outside the walls is just as dead and quiet as inside.

In all, I find it a bit of a poignant idea since while most cities will be rebuilt, the radiation and bioweapon effects will fade away, and living memory of the war will die along with the people who experienced it, but Berlin and Nuremberg will be the last, permanent reminders of the darkest period in world history. And when the outside world sealed them off, they promised to do better, and never let it happen again. When it's finally time to reopen them to the world, we'll see if that world has kept its promise.

Based off what I read about Chernobyl, it might be interesting for the people to find a beautiful and thriving wilderness where Berlin and Nuremberg are.

It speaks to nature having greater power than humanity in the long run.

It could be sign that terror and hate may be destructive forces, goodness wins out in the long run.
 
I'm sure the cathedrals double as memorials.

Surely palatial economy, which allows the leadership to utterly control the economic output of China and distribute services and goods to favored classes.

We can also notice how some of these cult leaders somewhat "contaminate" their flock with their own issues: for exemple David Berg, who was sexually abused by his nanny when 12, had the Children of God practise paedophilia and incest.

And the Nazis vented their own frustrations onto the entire European continent.
 
What happened to these people?:
Bob Hope
Audie Murphy
Sammy Baugh
Don Hutson
Martin Luther King, Jr.
George S. Patton
Douglas MacArthur
 
Based off what I read about Chernobyl, it might be interesting for the people to find a beautiful and thriving wilderness where Berlin and Nuremberg are.

It speaks to nature having greater power than humanity in the long run.

It could be sign that terror and hate may be destructive forces, goodness wins out in the long run.
A quick look at Life After People makes me think that some buildings would still be recognizable (though still ruins, most probably just walls), especially Speer's concrete monstrosities, and the patterns of streets might still be visible in some places under the grass and moss, but otherwise it would be completely back to nature by then, especially marshy Berlin. A beautiful forest all around, with only hints of its dark past in the ruins. And hopefully kept that way after reopening.
 
How long did the war in this world last anyway ? 1939-1961 ? Is there actually any timeline for this war ?

Whole TL is not old thread. First phase in Europe lasted from 1939 - 1944, Pacific War from 1941 - 1946, Warm War phase from 1944 - 1954 and Hot War 1954 - 1960. Not sure are these all counted as WW2 or has that Hot War some another official name.
 
@Lalli
Which meant for over 20 years, A4 + India were fighting in some of the most brutal conditions ever against the what can be described as a Mass Extinction Level regime, no wonder they are so aggressive in maintaining the world order and peace by absolute force
 
Last edited:
@Lalli
Which meant for over 20 years, A4 + India were fighting in some of the most brutal conditions ever against the what can be described as a Mass Extinction Level regime, no wonder they are so aggressive in maintaining the world order and peace by absolute force
Precisely the author's point I believe.

It gets worse than that.

Add in the period of World War I and its aftermath, and humanity will have suffered a 46 year long period of continuous bloodshed, with only a small reprieve lasting from 1924-1930.

If you are a someone born in 1900, two-thirds of your your life will be spent dying in a deadly war, and that presumes you survive.

For the vast majority of people, they have no memory of any period that can be called lasting peace.
A quick look at Life After People makes me think that some buildings would still be recognizable (though still ruins, most probably just walls), especially Speer's concrete monstrosities, and the patterns of streets might still be visible in some places under the grass and moss, but otherwise it would be completely back to nature by then, especially marshy Berlin. A beautiful forest all around, with only hints of its dark past in the ruins. And hopefully kept that way after reopening.

Speer actually designed them with potential archeological value, hoping that in a distant future, someone would still know the greatness of his mighty Reich.

But the point still stands that nature will win out over Nazism.
 
Based off what I read about Chernobyl, it might be interesting for the people to find a beautiful and thriving wilderness where Berlin and Nuremberg are.

It speaks to nature having greater power than humanity in the long run.
Then again, Calbear did say that Berlin and Nuremberg was so lethally dangerous (not just from anthrax but also from radioactive fallout that drifted there from the Allied nuclear attacks) that they made Chernobyl look like a burst water main!
 
It gets worse than that.

Add in the period of World War I and its aftermath, and humanity will have suffered a 46 year long period of continuous bloodshed, with only a small reprieve lasting from 1924-1930.

If you are a someone born in 1900, two-thirds of your your life will be spent dying in a deadly war, and that presumes you survive.

For the vast majority of people, they have no memory of any period that can be called lasting peace.
Dont forget the future war with China that will most likely happen
 
What would Hitler have thought of Himmler’s decisions as leader of Germany after he was incapacitated in 1958?

I know Himmler’s use of chemical and biological weapons certainly would have been a point of contention.
 
Top