The Amalingian Empire: The Story of the Gothic-Roman Empire

Interesting stuff; Theodemir's definitely making sure his empire will survive after him. I have a feeling that the visit to the Merovings will not go as planned.

Good stuff as always, though I have to question the wisdom of empowering the Roman Senate so much.

I don't really like Gothland as the name of the nation though. Gothia or something similar sounds a lot better.

Well, its completely possible that the region has different names in different languages. Gothia would be the name in the Romance tongues, as -ia derives from Latin. I felt that Gothland was the most likely name for the region in the Gothic tongue itself. It has precedence, as the Goth's original homeland is still refered to as Gotland to this day. I suppose Gothreike could also be an alternative.
 
Good stuff as always, though I have to question the wisdom of empowering the Roman Senate so much.

I felt I should address this point as well because it is the one aspect of Theodemir's reforms which may seem to be the most extraordinary.
As I had previously stated Theodoric had actually reempowered the Roman Senate to an extent. During the last years of the Empire, as well as the reign of Odoacer, the Roman senate had fallen greatly in prestige and function. This began to change under Theodoric, who began to use the Senate as earlier Emperors had, namely as a group of advisors. This was likely done because the Senators understood the inner workings of Italy better than the Gothic king could, early in his reign, as well as a symbolic gesture to show his commitment to Roman traditions.
Theodemir has not diverged from his Father's policies, but are only extending them. Its important to remember that the first crisis of Theodemir's reign was a Roman uprising in favor of his nephew. As a result, he has developed a keen awareness, and perhaps even an exagerated one, about the importance of keeping the Romans of Italy happy.
Following his rising to the throne of the Visigoths, Theodemir was, rightfully, concerned with how the Italians would take the event. Officially recognizing, and granting minor increases to the power of the Senate, was a way to cement the Italian's loyalty to the crown. It also served the purpose of lessening the beaurocratic strain which Theodemir was going to suffer upon assuming the crown of the Visigoths.
The Roman Senate still remains largely an advisory council. However, it has been given some of the more mundane day to day duties of administrating Italy. It also has been given the power to nominate individuals for important government positions within Italy, although the King retains the right to reject any such nominees if he so chooses.
As long as the King is strong, the Senate will likely remain in its place. A weak King or, worse yet, a series of weak mings might see it attempt to expand its influence. That, however, is in the future, and far out of Theodemir's mind at the moment (He can handle it, of course, and he assumes his children are equally capable. Any grandchildren ... well, thats too far in the future to worry about at the moment)
 
Chapter 6: The Family Feud
Chapter 6: The Family Feud

Chapter 6: The Family Feud
“Vengeance is an all consuming fire, and like fire, it must be treated with respect and awe. A man, motivated by such a desire, is capable of great feats. A small state, fueled by some injustice done to it in the past, can vanquish a great empire, many times its own size. But beware! For vengeance can also make a man reckless, and many great kings have seen their kingdoms turn to ash; consumed by the flame in their hearts.” – Einer Skulson, in The Art of Politics and War [FN1]

April, 544
Soissons, Kingdom of Soissons [Soissons, France]
Theodebert was not impressed by the palace of Chlotair, the Frankish king of this benighted land. Raised in his father’s court at Ravenna, he had come to be used to a certain level of opulence, which would have been unheard of in all of the lands of the Franks. The building, calling it a palace was simply too much, was a squat villa which even the poorest Gothic Reiks [FN2] would have found distasteful.

Theodebert wondered if there was even enough room in the structure to house his royal guard of a hundred soldiers. This was a very real problem for the Gothic prince, and heir to the thrones of both the Ostrogothic and Visigothic thrones, besides the annoyance it caused him. Relations between Theodebert’s father, Theodemir, and the Frankish Merovings were not good. Theodemir’s killing of Clovis in combat as a young man had destroyed relations between the Goths and the Franks. The Frankish invasion of Aquitaine, and the killing of the Visigothic king, had only escalated the hostilities even further. Although Theodemir had defeated the three Frankish brothers, and forced an annual tribute upon them, relations were never good. And now Clothair had, apparently, refused to deliver his tribute.

In other words, there was no way in hell that Theodebert planned on being separated from his guard at any point during this mission. He had come to put pressure upon Clothair to deliver the tribute and, if possible, to end the feud by arranging the marriage of his brother Amalaric to Clothair’s daughter Brunhilde. Although he had no great love for the Franks, whose unprovoked invasion of Aquitaine before his birth had become legendary, he desperately wanted to maintain the peace between the two people; war between them would drain the Goths forces and weaken them, at a time when the East and West Goths were only just starting to integrate.

The Prince sighed, deeply, his nerves getting the better of him. He and his forces had arrived at the border several days earlier and been met by the Frankish patrol who had escorted them to the capitol. He and his men had been camped outside the villa since, awaiting an official invitation from Clothair. It had been announced that an official banquet would be organized for the evening, and Theodebert paced nervously, waiting for the messenger to return.

“I don’t like this,” Wulfila said, looking at his friend. The two men were roughly the same age, although, whereas Theodebert had the look of a prince and warrior about him, Wulfila was short of stature and rather plump. He wore his life as a scribe on his sleeve.

Theodebert nodded, “I don’t like it either, but we don’t have much of a choice. And Clothair wouldn’t be foolish enough to break the rules of hospitality and attack us in his own court, it would be an embarrassment. And, even if he did, he doesn’t have enough forces at hand to take defeat us without heavy losses.”

He looked over at the horizon and saw a figure approaching. “And here comes our invitation. I swear, diplomacy is a lot more difficult than war.” [FN3]

Later that Night

The central banquet chamber of Clothair’s compound was being lit by torches which cast shitting shadows around the room. The King sat at the head of his own table, surrounded by his own retainers. The man was 47 years old, but the weight of rule sat heavy upon him, and he looked even older, his long grey hair hung limply below his shoulder, contrasting with his balding crown.

Theodebert sat at the head of his own bench, directly across from the Frankish king. He raised the glass before him to his lips, with little of the joy such an action would usually bring him, and grimaced. He much preferred the wine of his own country, not this northern swill. “We come, as I said, to discuss the betrothal of my brother to your daughter.”

Clothair shook his head, cutting the Gothic prince off short, “Now isn’t the time to discuss business. We are still waiting on some of our guests who have yet to arrive. They may have a thing to say on the proceedings. I think you will have a great deal to say to our other royal visitors.”

Theodebert furrowed his brow, “I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware of any other guests staying with you. My visit was ill-timed.”

“Oh no,” Clothair replied, “the timing was very fortunate, in fact. In fact, you might say, that they have very much wanted to meet with you.”

As if on cue, the doors to the banquet hall opened, and a contingent of heavily armed men entered, blocking the doors. Theodebert rose to his feet and grabbed the blade he had hidden in his boot. His men rose and dashed for the weapon pile behind them. “Burgundians,” he managed to cry out, “but we’re allies!”

Clovis leapt to his feet, “You dare draw weapons on me, when I invited you into my home?”

“You invite assassins in to attack us? Traitors who said they are our allies, and then claim that I am breaking the peace,” Theodebert snarled. He had since tossed aside his knife and grabbed the sword given to him by one of his men.

“Oh,” Clovis began with a slight chuckle, “I think you will find that they are no longer your allies. The Burgundians have grown sick of the Gothic boot on their neck. I’ve offered them what your Father denied them. True independence.”

The Frankish soldiers and their Burgundian allies advanced on the isolated Goths. Before he fell, Theodebert could take some silence in the fact that he had been right earlier that day; if the Franks betrayed him and his men, they would not win an easy fight. [FN3]

The Fall of the Merovings
By: Anonymous
Trans. Harold Smith
1998, Freedom Press: Alberton, Republic of New England [Richmond, Virginia]

Introduction

“The Fall of the Merovings,” as the Merovungenleid is often known in the English language was first composed in the 13th century by an anonymous scop in the court of Otto the Bold, Earl of Saxony. The epic was written in the style popular in Saxony at the time, which merged the older ‘Saxon Line’ with the skaldic verse popular within the Norse courts. The work is comprised of stanzas, with each stanza containing three to five long lines, and ending with one short line. The long lines, as in the poetry of other Germanic peoples, were held together by three alliterative stresses, although following the traditions of the Saxon people, the lines were much looser than in other traditions and contained many more unstressed syllables than would be found in English or Gothic writings. The short line, borrowed directly from the Norse, contained only two stressed alliterations, and was used to bring the verse to conclusion.

Although written in the 13th century, “The Fall of the Merovings” was based upon an oral tradition which stretched back centuries. The tales of Theodemir the Great, or Deitmir of Bern as he was known in the Saxon lands, no doubt began to circulate shortly after that king’s death, gaining great traction throughout the Germanic lands, from Vandalia in the south to the northern reaches of Scandinavia. Over time, these stories mingled with the tales of the other great Germanic heroes and villains, such as the Volsungs, Attila the Hun, and Ermaneric. In fact, the tales of the Volsungs, the death of Attila, and the fall of the Nibelungs came to have a direct impact upon the Theodemir Cycle, as Theodemir’s father, Theodoric, was said to have fled into exile and taken service with Attilla, before the fall of the Huns.

As a part of the oral tradition, the tale of the Merovings, the great Frankish dynasty of Clovis, and their great fall from grace, evolved considerably in its telling. It is our great fortune, then, that we have an account of much of the story from Wulfila Strabo, who observed the events first hand, which allows us to separate fact from fiction. For instance, we know that the dramatic scene of the death of Theodebert was largely unchanged from the real event. In 544 Theodebert, Theodemir’s son, traveled to Soissons, the court of the Frankish king Clothair, to either arrange the marriage of that king’s daughter to Theodebert’s brother. Although we cannot be assured that:
“In bloody battle the bright one flared
He halted the hearts of a hundred men
The men of the Merovings he mowed down in fury
Until an arrow opened his heart
Then to Valhalla he ventured with a valiant host”
We do know that Theodemir fought bravely before being cut down in battle.

Other aspects of the tale do not hold up to the historical record. For instance, in the story, all three of Clovis’ sons took part in the war against Theodemir, and only Clothair’s son Chram survives the conflict. We know this to be patently false; although Clothair and Childebert made war on the Goths, Theudoric remained neutral throughout the war and, due to his unusual insight, retained his kingdom and his life. It is also unlikely that the cream of the Gothic Reiks were killed in the conflict, by the simple fact the Theodemir’s realm did not collapse upon the end of hostilities, although the loss of life must still have been magnificent.



“The Fall of the Merovings,” recounts one of the central moments of the Theodemir Cycle. Beginning with the departure of Theodebert from Ravenna, the treachery of Clothair, and the young prince’s ‘return’ to Ravenna, the story them moves out of the courts and onto the field of battle. The central theme of the work is the growing rage of Theodemir and his Frankish counterparts, which grows with each engagement, until finally reaching an apocalyptic crescendo during the Siege of Paris in which it seems that the entire world will be consumed by the fury of the Amalings and Merovings.

May, 544
Ravenna, Kingdom of the Ostogoths

“Theodemir, King,” one of the palace Comes began. The man was trembling, and his entire face had gone as white as a corpse. “Your son’s party has returned.”

Theodemir looked at the man, and he suddenly felt a deep dread building in his heart. “Theodebert,” he said simply. This couldn’t be happening. He had had reservations about his son’s trek the entire time. It was fool hardy, and stupid. It was obvious that Clothair was goading them to war, and it was easier to respond in kind. If the boy hadn’t been so persistent, hadn’t blinded him with words of peace. Finally, drawing himself up, and steeling himself, the king did the only thing he could do, “send them in,” he said in a flat tone.

The doors to the chamber opened, and six men came in, carrying a shield between them. They were all broken men, shattered physically, yes, but one could see a great weight rested on their hearts. Much heavier than the shield they were carrying with them. Theodemir stared at them, and it was only then that he noticed the man in the lead was Wulfila, loyal Wulfila. The scribe must have lost thirty pounds, and he had a tightly wound bandage where his right hand used to be.

“Wulfila,” Theodemir said, “What has happened? Where is Theodemir, where is my son?”

“Theodemir, King,” the scribe began, his voice breaking, “Clothair, King of Soissons wished that we, personally, deliver to you his tribute.” And with those words Wulfila fell to his knees, and broke into body shaking sobs. “I failed you, lord. I tried to protect him, but I failed.”

Theodemir stood up and, in a daze, walked towards the shield, which the men had placed upon the palace floor. Summoning his courage, he took the richly made tapestry which hung over the shield, and ripped it away. Looking down, he let out a gasp, as everyone else in the assembly joined in a spontaneous scream of horror.

He couldn’t show weakness. Not now. Not in front of everyone at court. He reached out and grabbed a table for support, and, through a monumental force of will, he kept back the tears which were beginning to well up in his eyes. His hand suddenly struck out and, finding a gold chalice full of wine, he grabbed it and threw the cup against the wall with all of his might. The red liquid soared through the air behind the cup, eventually falling to the floor and staining it the color of blood.

“Clothair,” he began, his voice building into a shriek of pure rage, “Clothair DIES!”

And with that, he cast his eyes down at the shield one last time. The broken swords and spears piled high atop it and, perched above the mound of broken iron was the head of his first born son. And nailed into the head was a note, written in Latin, which read “Here is your tribute.”

And then the war came …

FN1: Skulson is this TL’s Machiavelli, for lack of a better term. His work on government and war, written at the behest of a Nodic king, goes on to become the most influential writing on those subjects since the Romans. Consider him more of a Sun Tzu, if Sun Tzu was focused more on the warfare of couriers kings, and less of armies and generals.

FN2: Reiks, as has been explained earlier is a Gothic term for nobility. As the term develops in the gothic state it will, generally, come to represent the same thing that Duke or Earl means in OTL.

FN3: Clothair wanted the weapons left close so the Goths would draw them first. He was hoping to spur an international incident of sorts, or at least make it seem as if he was the one wronged, in order to draw his brothers into the conflict on his side. The Burgundians, meanwhile, had been ‘guests’ at Soissons, ever since his spies told him that Theodebert was coming. The new king of Burgundy has wanted to declare his independence from the Goths, who see Burgundy more as a protectorate than an in dependent kingdom, and Clothair was only too happy to promise him this. Of course, whether or not Clothair plans on ever fulfilling his side of the bargain is another matter entirely; especially as Gothic armies are likely to strike Burgundy first.
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My apologize for the long wait betwee my last update and this one; real life has a nasty tendency of getting between me and my writing. I should, hopefully, have another post here in a day or two.
I figure there will be one more post about the Gothic-Frank conflict and then I'll need to turn my attention to the East and fill everyone in on events in Constantinople, which are going to have some very strong ramifications for the Goths in the West.
As usual, comments and questions are not only welcome, they are requested! I hope everyone has been enjoying this little tale of a surviving Gothic Italy.
 
Eh, my last updates were at 1:00 and 4:00.

Because it's a story update there's not a whole lot to say save that Machiavelli had some good ideas but is overrated and that I'm going for the Franks since I like to root for the underdog whoever they may be. It will be interesting to see how the situation shakes out after it's over.

Oh also, Theodemir King sounded like Theoden king. ;)
 
Eh, my last updates were at 1:00 and 4:00.

Because it's a story update there's not a whole lot to say save that Machiavelli had some good ideas but is overrated and that I'm going for the Franks since I like to root for the underdog whoever they may be. It will be interesting to see how the situation shakes out after it's over.

Oh also, Theodemir King sounded like Theoden king. ;)

Good point. It sucks being a nightowl sometimes. As for Machiavelli, I also perscribe to the theory that "The Prince" was written largely as satire. It was dedicated to the man who exiled Machiavelli from his home town, and who he passionately hated, and Machiavelli appares to ahve remained a pretty dedicated Republican throughout the remainder of his life.
And yes, Theodemir, King should sound a bit like Theoden. It was pretty common, in more traditional Germanic languages, to place the name before the title. Hence, why Tolkein used it for the Riders of Rhohan, who were his standins for the Ancient Germans in Middle Earth.
On a side note, Theoden, in Old English, was a title, not a name, and meant something along the lines of "Ruler of All." The Gothic cognate is Thiudans, and is a title which Theodoric was, likely, already using. If not, by the end of Theodemir's reign it certainly will. Which means that line above could have easily read "Theodemir, Theoden" :)
As for the Franks? Well, I've insinuated that some of the Merovings survive the war. More so do than in the mythic account of the story certainly. Although, I highly suspect that Frankish power is going to take a while to rebound from all of this. It becomes a bit of a truism in the ATL that Clovis got too greedy, attempted to expand too quickly, and that there was no way his kingdom could survive.
 
Chapter 7: This is Why We Fight
Chapter 7: This is Why We Fight

Chapter 7: This is Why We Fight
With fire and fury fearsome Theodemir
Slew the Salins the slayers of his son
The plains of Paris he purged of life
Watering the wheat with the weeping tears
Of the fearless Franks and the ill-fortuned Walings.

- Excerpt from “The Merovungenleid”

Outside of Ravenna, Kingdom of the Ostrogoths
May 545

Theodemir, King of the Ostrogoths, Visigoths and Italy, sat heavily upon his horse, slumping forward in his saddle. The last year had not been kind to the King; the death, no murder, of his eldest son had driven him into a rage and then a deep depression. Theodebert had been his pride and joy; the absence of the boy from his life continued to weigh heavy upon the King’s heart.

Theodemir had always been single minded. It had been by sheer force of will that he had pushed through the reforms of his kingdoms, and had crushed the rebellions against him. His goal had always been the same; the preservation of the Gothic people, and securing for them a place of respect in history. But now that quest was being overshadowed by a stronger desire; vengeance for the death of his son, and the destruction of Clothair, and everything that he had built.

“The army is ready to march, Father.”

Theodemir looked over and nodded at his second son, Amalaric. The young man had insisted on coming on the campaign after Theodemir had revealed his intent to have his son stay in Ravenna and act as steward in his absence. It was the right choice; Amalaric was now the heir-apparent, and he needed to have the support of the military if he hoped to hold the kingdom together. And, besides, Theodebert had been his brother as well; and, unlike in most royal households, they had been close. But Theodemir was still worried about his decision to let Amalaric accompany the army. He knew his son was a skilled fighter, but battles were chaotic, and accidents were always a possibility. Having lost one son, he was terrified of losing another. And, even more than that, the king would himself possessed of an almost superstitious fear; his second son had been named Amalaric after the former king of the Visigoths, Theodemir’s cousin who had been like a little brother to him. That Amalaric had been taken from him by the Franks; cut down in battle after the three Meroving brothers had invades Aquitaine. Was history about to repeat itself?

“We have lost so much to those men,” the King muttered to himself.

“I would hardly call them men, Father,” Amalaric said, “more like rabid dogs. I’ll gut Clothair myself if I find him”

“Watch your temper,” Theodemir said, “the last thing you need to do is to charge blindly into battle and get yourself killed. Clothair will meet his doom, but I will not lose another son to that man. I won’t lose anyone else to the Merovings, ever again.”

“I won’t do anything stupid, Father.”

“You’d best not, because if you want to die so bad I’ll kill you myself, and save Clothair the trouble. We are Amali; we don’t act stupid.”

Amalaric bowed his head, and seemed to sulk. Well, just as well. He had always been more given to brooding than either his brother or father. Whereas Theodebert had been given to boldness, Amalaric had always been content to staying in the background. If life had taken a different turn, the younger son might have made quite the scholar some day; he had always been much more at home amongst his books than the martial arts. But God had laid down a different path, and there was no arguing with the Almighty, no matter how cruel his actions sometimes appeared. Not for the first time Theodemir reminded himself that God had seen his own son tortured and killed, after all.

Theodemir sighed, a common expression these days, and placed his hand on his son’s shoulder. “Don’t sulk like that, it’s not becoming of a prince. You wanted to be here after all. Now, stay by my side and you’ll do fine. When this is all over, we’re going to have Clothair’s head on a pike!”


The Glory of Emaneric’s Heirs: the Lectures of Dr. Valamir Fralet
Trans. Edwin Smith
Bern [OTL: Verona, Italy]: Skipmann and Sons Publishing, 1997



The death of Theodebert came as a great shock to Theodemir. The feud between the Amalings and Merovings had claimed many lives in both sides of the conflict: Clovis, King of the Franks, his son Clodomir, Alaric, King of the Visigoths, and his son Amalaric, to name only the most prominent. However, all of these deaths had occurred on the field of battle; the assassination of Theodebert was different, and it spurred the Gothic king into a rage. He vowed to destroy Clothair, and anyone else who stood by his side.

It is difficult to fully understand Clothair’s motivations in breaking with the style of the conflict; he left few sources behind, and most of what we know of him comes from Gothic sources, which continually painted him as a brute and a fool. The few references which come to us from later Frankish histories were recorded years after Clothair’s death, and so are equally unreliable.

However, it is possible to make a few educated guesses. First of all, the death of Clovis on the battle field was a tragedy for the Franks, but not an unexpected one considering the life that he had led. Society at the time expected that Clovis’s children would seek vengeance, which they attempted to do in 531, invading the Kingdom of the Visigoths. The crushing defeat of the Merovings, and the tribute imposed upon them by the peace treaty, only furthered the humiliation. But, perhaps just as important, was Aquitaine itself; the Franks desire for that province had led to Clovis’ invasion and death, and the conquering of that territory had been one of the stated aims of the 531 invasion as well.

In any case, Clothair must have known that his killing of Theodebert would lead to another war between the Franks and the Goths. He likely hoped that the threat of Theodemir would lead his brothers, Childebert and Theudoric to his defense. Coupled with his new allies, the Burgundians, Clothair must have felt that he had enough strength to vanquish the Goths on the field of battle. If so, he grossly miscalculated; although Childebert did openly ally with Clothair, Theudoric spurred his brothers’ talk of an alliance and remained neutral in the war.





Theodemir spent the remainder of 544 and the beginning of 545 marshalling his forces for the coming war. Although the core of his army was constituted by Goths from both East and West Gothland, he also relied heavily upon Romans from Italy and Hispania. Although it is impossible to know for certain the total size of the forces that Theodemir had brought together, Wulfila does give us an estimate of one army of 50,000 and a smaller force of 20,000. However, by Wulfila’s own admission, he was not well versed in military affairs, and so it is difficult to say for certain if his estimates were correct.

Theodemir’s strategy for the campaign itself was rather bold. Clothair’s forces had been moving into Burgundy for several months, where he was shoring up his defenses, anticipating the Gothic attack. Knowing this, Theodemir planned a feint; he would send his smaller army of 20,000 directly into Burgundy to engage Clothair and distract the Frankish king. Meanwhile, Theodemir’s main forces would move north, through the Alps, and seize Aventicum. It was a dangerous gambit, and one that would prove costly, but it was designed to take Clothair completely by surprise and keep him disorientated.


The Life of Theodemir the Great
Wulfila Strabo
Trans. Athelrad Edwardson
London: National University of England Publishing, 1964





The crossing of the Alps was treacherous, but all were motivated by an overwhelming desire to destroy Clothair’s forces. The death of Theodebert had been a great shock to the Goths and Romans, and all men were united in a desire to gain revenge for his treacherous slaying. Our love of Theodebert and Theodemir, both, held us together during the worst of the march. I, who am not even a soldier, but a scholar, marched side by side with those brave men, and bore my weight well. [FN1]

We were in luck. Upon coming to Aventicum, the citizens were so shocked by our presence, that they threw the gates open to us, and welcomed Theodemir as if he were their own king. We later found out that Gundomar King was very unpopular within the region as he had chosen to ally himself with the Franks against the Goths. Although Aventicum is a poor city, nowhere near as grand as it once was, we found ourselves treated well by the citizenry, and were soon refreshed and ready to march on Clothair, himself.

Clothair was shocked by the arrival of such a large army to his North; he must have known that the army that had been harrying him was not Theodemir’s main force, but did not know where we would attack him. Our appearance in Aventicum startled him, and he chose to pull out from the capital at Vienne, and marched to meet us.

Our two armies met near the city of Geneva. It was a great battle, and many men fell on both sides. But, in the end Theodemir was victorious; our smaller army arrived and caught Clothair’s flank, and his army retreated from the field; they had been beaten, but not defeated. The Franks, and the remainders of the Burgundians, retreated to Childebert’s Kingdom of Paris where they found reinforcements. Theodemir was left occupying Burgundy; as the Gundobar had fallen in battle, the kingdom was left without a king. [FN2]

Alas, if only Clothair had also fallen that day, so many lives would have been spared, for Theodemir was still enraged, and nothing by the death of his son’s killer would satisfy him any longer. If Clothair had died then, perhaps Theodemir would have been spared the single greatest weight upon his heart. But God does not work according to our desires but, rather, to the unfolding of his own plan. Clothair lived and the war continued.


[FN1] Wulfila is trying to not sound too arrogant here but he is certainly sproud of his ability to carry his own weight during the march.

[FN2] Wulfila is not a military man, and so his grasp of tactics is rather lacking, meaning that his depictions of battles are short and to the point, and a bit flat. The fact that this means that this author doesn’t have to go into many of the details of battles, which he knows little about either, is entirely coincidental I assure you!

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All right, at long last we get to the great war between the Franks and the Goths. I'll finish it up in another post (hopefully tonight!) and then we get to turn our eyes to the East to figure out what those Romans are up to!
 
I'm going to be updating this soon. I've gotten sidetracked with starting a new job and finishing my Thesis, but I promose to return to this TL in the near future!
 
Anyway, enough of this mumbo jumbo, good luck with the TL. I'll be interested to see how the Gothic King gets away with calling himself Caesar- is this the ceremonial title of Caesar given to him by Constantinople, or is he genuinely a Caesar in his own right? Interesting times ahead...

It's worth considering some of the titles Theodoric used [e.g. princeps] and the ones the Roman Senate used for him [e.g. Augustus].
 
In order to accomplish this goal, the Gothic king was concerned not only with the physical settlement of his people but also with their transition into settled life, and the possible corrupting influence of Roman culture upon the Goths.

The Goths had been settled agriculturalists all along. Although in the later 4th century, many became refugees, and some of those refugees moved into the cities, while others joined the army.

The Federate armies, such as Alaric's or Theodoric's, may have had more families move with them than older Roman armies, but logistics kept ancient armies from exceeding 80,000 to 100,000 people.

The big question, to my mind, is whether Gothic refugees have established significant farming communities in depopulated areas of the western Balkans, as they seem to have done in the eastern. If Gothic culture is going to survive, it's going to depend as much on larger Gothic communities as on any limited army-turned-aristocracy.
 
It did not take long. Theuderic’s army arrived a month later, in June, and engaged Theodemir. The battle was brutal, and it is said that thousands died on both sides. However, the defenses of Arles held, and Theodemir was victorious. It was here that Theodemir made a grave error; being still full of youthful vigor, he chose to pursue Theuderic’s army and destroy it utterly. He harried his rival as the two made their way north, but was caught by surprise, at Javols, when Clothaire arrived to give his brother aid. [FN4]

The campaign season in Gaul would begin in July. See Ammianus, book 17, chapter 8.
 
Well, its completely possible that the region has different names in different languages. Gothia would be the name in the Romance tongues, as -ia derives from Latin. I felt that Gothland was the most likely name for the region in the Gothic tongue itself. It has precedence, as the Goth's original homeland is still refered to as Gotland to this day. I suppose Gothreike could also be an alternative.

*Gutland (?) could mean the land, Gutþiuda did mean the people.
 
The campaign season in Gaul would begin in July. See Ammianus, book 17, chapter 8.

Thanks for the information. I've always been much more interested in the cultural side of history as opposed to the military, and so my military sections are a bit more ... fuzzy.
 
A surviving Gothic Empire, is such a great idea for a story. I love the way you are trying to bind it all together with Theodemir, uniting the kingdoms of Goths, and keeping the Romans pleased with his reforms.
 
I really like the project to translate Greek works into Gothic. Might this lead to many important historical and philosophical works, tragically lost IOTL, surviving in this TL?
 
Is there any chance that this thread is revived? I hope so.
Also concentrating the goths might very well allow for a survival of Gothic.
 
Is there any chance that this thread is revived? I hope so.
Also concentrating the goths might very well allow for a survival of Gothic.

I've been pretty focused on my Tl "The Prodigal Son Return" on the 20th Century board. But, truth be told, this is the TL which keeps coming back to my mind when I'm bored. I can't promise that I will focus on it totally, but, if people are interested, I would love to pick it back up. I think I've overcome my writers block, such as it were.
 

Zioneer

Banned
I've been pretty focused on my Tl "The Prodigal Son Return" on the 20th Century board. But, truth be told, this is the TL which keeps coming back to my mind when I'm bored. I can't promise that I will focus on it totally, but, if people are interested, I would love to pick it back up. I think I've overcome my writers block, such as it were.

I would love to keep reading this TL; as I re-read it, I contiually can't get over how good it is.
 
I would love to keep reading this TL; as I re-read it, I contiually can't get over how good it is.

I'll tell you what; I'm planning on writing a new update for "Prodigal Sons" tomorrow or so. when I'm done, I'll turn back to this one. I still have a very good idea of where it is going to go, and I think finishing up the life of Theodimir the Great would give me a lot more freedom in the writing (one of the hardest parts of a TL is the beginning, because you have the least room in manuever. I think thats what intimidated me about this one.)

if people are interested (and they seem to be) I'd love to return to this. Its fun to do a TL where the Goths take over, and don't neccesarily become Romanized in a generation.
 

ingemann

Banned
The Goths had been settled agriculturalists all along. Although in the later 4th century, many became refugees, and some of those refugees moved into the cities, while others joined the army.

The Visigoths were, the Ostrogoth had adopted the lifestyle of the Scytians/Sarmatian/Alans they replaced in Ukraine, as such while they was still agriculturalists, they had moved more into herding. It was also a important reason for that the Ostrogoth was settled in the Pannovian which had a environment similar to Ukraine.
 
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