The Age of Elizabeth and Thomas

Well, this was a dream last night, so here goes...

Queen Elizabeth I and King Thomas I
Now, the only other detail in the dream seemed to be that the reign was a joint one and that it ended in the 1590s.

Could Elizabeth marry before ascending the throne? I don't see any particular reason why not, and IIRC Thomas Seymour and her were contemporaries, well I think he is a few years older.

If not Seymour, is there another Thomas around?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Gosh, my threads are so popular these days!

Oh well, let's have some thought

1) Thomas Seymour does not marry Katherine Parr. Well, the problem to this is that he wants to, but if he did connive to get Edward VI's permission whilst Seymour the eldest was away on campaign, then maybe the latter can be more vigilant to what his brother is up to.

Elizabeth thus his remains his step-niece which should give no one any real conniptions.

2) Thomas Seymour is more careful and doesn't end up indited for treason. Katherine dies, and he remains close to Elizabeth ( as a pseudo father figure but that never stopped Victorians marrying their wards ). Edward dies, and perhaps faced with Mary becoming king Thomas weds Elizabeth to secure their survival. Maybe he has some role in the Jane Grey attempt to become queen? Actually, maybe he would be powerful enough in this situation to enable her to stabilise on the throne?

Now, that would be interesting, the monarchy has a Queen Jane, on a very unstable throne but backed by Seymour?

Of course, that doesn't do great things for his chances of becoming king through Elizabeth. But perhaps he can choose exile? Quite where you would go into exile as a Protestant in this time, I am not sure - Germany maybe?

Thoughts???

Or any other eligible Thomas???

Beset Rearguards
Grey Wolf
 
Few thoughts

Given the relationship between Somerset and Thomas was poor it is hard to see a situation where Thomas can get consent to marry Elizabeth whether he marries Catherine Parr or not.
And without the marriage he is not as rich as his brother which in part enabled him to use money to ingratiate himself with he nephew the King and others on the regency council.

A couple of other Thomas' -
Thomas Howard later 4th Duke of Norfolk (b1536) - only a couple of years younger than Elizabeth and to many the perfect match for her.

Another might be his uncle Thomas Howard born about 1520 and younger son of the 3rd Duke of Norfolk.

Although nominally Catholic (they were not quite as rabid as we tend to imagine given the fourth Duke's end on the block) - but in 1553 the Third Duke was a major supporter of Mary over Jane Grey and might not the hand of the wealthy Elizabeth be a suitable reward for Mary's loyal Norfolk.
 
Thanks!

So, OTL Thomas Howard married in 1556 when he was 20. Elizabeth would have been 23, so that would not be a problem. I suppose he could be BETROTHED to her when he was 18, but it would seem perhaps a bit "off" to marry the heir to an 18 year old male (the other way round would be fine, lol).

It says he was "brought up a Protestant", so quite what this means I am not sure? Would it mean, he would be happy enough to return to this if his wife became Queen?

As an interesting aside, the Fitzalan heiress is going to marry someone else? Thomas is going to miss out on her wealth (Elizabeth doesn't bring him any) though perhaps as wife of the heir, Mary I would give him an extra title (Duke of Richmond?) with lands to go with it

Of course, whoever marries the Fitzalan heiress is going to get a major boost to their, and their line's wealth and be a major figure in the next reign

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Life is full of ADDENDAS
So, the Fitzalan heiress is not THAT much of an heiress in the 1550s since her father doesn't die til 1580. Whilst her brother is dead in 1556, and she and her sister are thus co-heiresses, those whom they marry won't get their hands on the Fitzalan wealth until the death of the Earl of Arundel in 1580. Still, a good marriage but not one to immediately raise up her ATL husband, except perhaps in expectation. After all her sister and co-heiress married one John Lumley, not exactly welll known these days

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Catherine Parr dies and Thomas Seymour persuades Edward VI to let him marry Elizabeth. in 1553, Thomas and Elizabeth succeed Edward VI.
 
Catherine Parr dies and Thomas Seymour persuades Edward VI to let him marry Elizabeth. in 1553, Thomas and Elizabeth succeed Edward VI.

Which would be civil war as Mary is the recognised successor under Henry VIII's will. It would of course be like the Jane Grey situation, but in a better position for Elizabeth than for Jane

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
A couple of other Thomas' -
Thomas Howard later 4th Duke of Norfolk (b1536) - only a couple of years younger than Elizabeth and to many the perfect match for her.

Another might be his uncle Thomas Howard born about 1520 and younger son of the 3rd Duke of Norfolk.
A bit closely related to Elizabeth, though: Her maternal grandmother was a sister of the 3rd duke.
 
Which would be civil war as Mary is the recognised successor under Henry VIII's will. It would of course be like the Jane Grey situation, but in a better position for Elizabeth than for Jane

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

This actually seems somewhat plausible to me.
 
Both Elizabeth and Mary were provided for financially in Henry VIII's will - they both had property.
Under the will they were guaranteed 10,000 on their marriage to a foreign prince in plate money jewels etc.
They were also guaranteed 3,000 each from the hour of his death to live upon.
The only restrictions related to their marriages needing the approval of the council.

Both women were suddenly wealthy and very marriageable.

Seymour's marriage to Catherine was in part due to her sizeable wealth and his easy and immediate access to it - marrying Elizabeth would have required the council's consent which at that point was extremely unlikely.

Assuming we follow our tl to Mary's accession then pushing Elizabeth into the Howard match is a possible solution (though Mary herself preferred the idea of getting Elizabeth out of the country and marriage to a hapsburg puppet).
The biggest issue is going to be getting Elizabeth to the altar.
Thomas Howard 4th Duke of Norfolk was educated by John Fox so is not likely to be that averse to his wife's protestant leanings - on her accession though the problems will start between them for supremacy.
Given her proven conservative leanings in religion (far closer to the anglo-catholicism of her father than either of her siblings) I think that will be a much smaller problem in the marriage.
 
Now, that would be interesting, the monarchy has a Queen Jane, on a very unstable throne but backed by Seymour?
I would love to see a timeline with a Queen Jane, as I rather admire her personal character. Of course, her becoming queen does seem to imply Elizabeth was passed over... but at the same time, since she inherited on the basis of Edward's will, perhaps she could later bequeath the crown to Elizabeth? Or, since she never wanted to become queen iOTL, perhaps she could abdicate in Elizabeth's favor? A Seymour who has married Elizabeth could encourage this abdication to get the throne away from Jane's uncle by marriage Northumberland.

But perhaps he can choose exile? Quite where you would go into exile as a Protestant in this time, I am not sure - Germany maybe?
Holland hasn't rebelled yet, so I'd recommend Geneva. There was a sizeable English expatriate Protestant community there, known for translating the "Geneva Bible." Admittedly, at least the parts I've heard of were rather extreme and somewhat anti-monarchical. Still, it's the best choice I can think of, and it could lead to very interesting consequences for Thomas and Elizabeth's reign.
 
Top