The 50 children and 10 wives of King Henry VIII (1491-1577) --- I challenge you to beat either number!

[CaesarKhan]

Just something fun I wanted to do, give the man obsessed with having kids and wives his wish. I challenge you to beat either number! I specifically went with higher born wives, so there is much room for the various lower nobles he married in our world, too.

-------

1 - Margaret of Angouleme (1508-1509)

• Louise, 1508
• Henry, 1509

2 - Catherine of Aragon (1509-1518)

• Mary, 1510
• Edward, 1511
• John, 1513
• Jasper, 1514
• Elizabeth, 1516
• Catherine, 1518

3 - Eleanor of Austria (1519-1532)

• Charles, 1520
• Eleanor, 1521
• Margaret, 1523
• Alfred, 1525
• Edmund, 1526
• Joyce, 1528
• Arthur, 1530
• William, 1532

4 - Renée of France (1533-1536)

• Anne, 1533
• James, 1534
• Thomas, 1535
• Peter, 1536

5 - Anne of Cleves (1536-1537)

• Joan, 1536
• Cecily, 1536
• Andrew, 1537

6 - Christina of Denmark (1538-1542)

• Simon, 1539
• Bridget, 1540
• Matthew, 1542

7 - Mary of Lorraine (1542-1548)

• Matthias, 1543
• Bartholomew, 1544
• Maud, 1546
• Alice, 1547
• Renée, 1548

8 - Anna of Poland (1548-1558)

• Sigismund, 1549
• Hedwig, 1551
• Sophie, 1552
• Regina, 1554
• Bona, 1556
• Albert, 1557
• Alexander, 1558

9 - Mary, Queen of Scots (1558-1570)

• Robert, 1559
• Janet, 1561
• George, 1562
• Peregrine, 1564
• Dorothy, 1565
• Guinevere, 1567
• Owen, 1569
• Percival, 1570

10 - Elizabeth of Sweden (1571-1577)

• Joseph, 1572
• Eric, 1573
• Lucretia, 1575
• Edith, 1577

Final count: 50 legitimate children, totalling 27 boys and 23 girls.

Impact: Henry is seen in the same vein as Charlemagne or Ghengis Khan regarding descendants, with most English people being able to trace their descent from one Tudor or another.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Mary, Queen of Scots (1558-1570)

What in the name of dispensation hell would be needed for this? He's her grandmother's brother. Also, with a POD in 1508, what is to say she will even exist?

Elizabeth of Sweden (1571-1577)

Excluding the improbability of Henry somehow becoming a father in his mid-eighties, why in the name of bleeding hell would he marry a Swedish princess. Assuming she's Gustav Vasa's daughter, I'm fairly certain she's not Catholic [though @Kellan Sullivan or @Jan Olbracht would likely know better] and also Sweden was kind of going through chaos in the 1570s....

 

[Lalli]

True challenge is getting Henry VIII to live at age of 86. Not exactly easy task even nowadays for extremely obese and stressed man and yet being able to produce children.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Excluding the improbability of Henry somehow becoming a father in his mid-eighties, why in the name of bleeding hell would he marry a Swedish princess. Assuming she's Gustav Vasa's daughter, I'm fairly certain she's not Catholic [though @Kellan Sullivan or @Jan Olbracht would likely know better] and also Sweden was kind of going through chaos in the 1570s....

She was Lutheran, but was considered as bride for Henri III of France.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Just something fun I wanted to do, give the man obsessed with having kids and wives his wish. I challenge you to beat either number! I specifically went with higher born wives, so there is much room for the various lower nobles he married in our world, too.

-------

1 - Margaret of Angouleme (1508-1509)

• Louise, 1508
• Henry, 1509

2 - Catherine of Aragon (1509-1518)

• Mary, 1510
• Edward, 1511
• John, 1513
• Jasper, 1514
• Elizabeth, 1516
• Catherine, 1518

3 - Eleanor of Austria (1519-1532)

• Charles, 1520
• Eleanor, 1521
• Margaret, 1523
• Alfred, 1525
• Edmund, 1526
• Joyce, 1528
• Arthur, 1530
• William, 1532

4 - Renée of France (1533-1536)

• Anne, 1533
• James, 1534
• Thomas, 1535
• Peter, 1536

5 - Anne of Cleves (1536-1537)

• Joan, 1536
• Cecily, 1536
• Andrew, 1537

6 - Christina of Denmark (1538-1542)

• Simon, 1539
• Bridget, 1540
• Matthew, 1542

7 - Mary of Lorraine (1542-1548)

• Matthias, 1543
• Bartholomew, 1544
• Maud, 1546
• Alice, 1547
• Renée, 1548

8 - Anna of Poland (1548-1558)

• Sigismund, 1549
• Hedwig, 1551
• Sophie, 1552
• Regina, 1554
• Bona, 1556
• Albert, 1557
• Alexander, 1558

9 - Mary, Queen of Scots (1558-1570)

• Robert, 1559
• Janet, 1561
• George, 1562
• Peregrine, 1564
• Dorothy, 1565
• Guinevere, 1567
• Owen, 1569
• Percival, 1570

10 - Elizabeth of Sweden (1571-1577)

• Joseph, 1572
• Eric, 1573
• Lucretia, 1575
• Edith, 1577

Final count: 50 legitimate children, totalling 27 boys and 23 girls.

Impact: Henry is seen in the same vein as Charlemagne or Ghengis Khan regarding descendants, with most English people being able to trace their descent from one Tudor or another.

No way with four sons is Eleonore of Austria getting considered as a third wife for Henry. More likely Eleonore's youngest sister goes to marry the Prince of Wales, and Henry's daughter (potentially) marries Joao III (the fresh blood will do wonders for the Aviz genepool)

What in the name of dispensation hell would be needed for this? He's her grandmother's brother. Also, with a POD in 1508, what is to say she will even exist?

technically there would be a precedent (Fernando II of Aragon marrying Germaine de Foix, who was granddaughter of his half-sister, Leonor of Navarre), but that it's about as common as aunts marrying their nephews suggests that it was not common

 

[ordinarylittleme]

technically there would be a precedent (Fernando II of Aragon marrying Germaine de Foix, who was granddaughter of his half-sister, Leonor of Navarre), but that it's about as common as aunts marrying their nephews suggests that it was not common

I mean. Joanna of Naples married her nephew. So did Benedita of Portugal... But it really wasn't common. And also pointless in this case. Henry has sons closer to Mary's age.

 

[Fabius Maximus]

Do these all have to be legitimate children? An unusually high libido + access to all the women willing to bed the king (and, if these fail, the finest prostitutes money can buy) could get you the required number, although obviously most of them would be bastards.

 

[Lalli]

Do these all have to be legitimate children? An unusually high libido + access to all the women willing to bed the king (and, if these fail, the finest prostitutes money can buy) could get you the required number, although obviously most of them would be bastards.

That would be amusing if all his 50 children would are legitimate. It makes succession really intresting if something goes severely wrong.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

That would be amusing if all his 50 children would are legitimate. It makes succession really intresting if something goes severely wrong.

The Devil's Brood: Tudor Edition?

 

[mrmandias]

The biggest implausibility here (besides the whole awesome concept itself) is the wives continue to be quite high-ranking as time goes on.

Henry is going to have to dissolve the monasteries just to make sure his kids have even a little bit of an inheritance

 

[TrevorFromStarWars]

I actually like this

 

[ordinarylittleme]

The biggest implausibility here (besides the whole awesome concept itself) is the wives continue to be quite high-ranking as time goes on

That's not so ASB in a world where he stayed a good catch (as he never divorced or killed any wife here) - I'd question some of the choices like Renee of France (claimant to Brittany, no way is Francis allowing THAT marriage) though.

 

[CaesarKhan]

True challenge is getting Henry VIII to live at age of 86. Not exactly easy task even nowadays for extremely obese and stressed man and yet being able to produce children.

It would almost certainly require no jousting accident and continued activity throughout his life, its true. I chose 85 as the longest I could see him surviving, as that is the oldest a male ruler of England has made it in our world (Cromwell). If you didnt count him, it would still be 81 which isn't too far away. Unlikely for sure, but far from impossible.

And besides, the oldest man to father a child was 101! That boggles the mind, and there are countless who were elderly and still pulled it off

 

[BoleynBuff]

Renee of France (claimant to Brittany, no way is Francis allowing THAT marriage) though.

It could happen, if the Italian Wars of 1521-26 went to shit for France (Francis dies at Pavia, leaving the king all of 7 years old, Charles V and Charles of Bourbon snatch massive chunks of territory, etc).

 

[CaesarKhan]

That's not so ASB in a world where he stayed a good catch (as he never divorced or killed any wife here) - I'd question some of the choices like Renee of France (claimant to Brittany, no way is Francis allowing THAT marriage) though.

That would be true, though she renounced her claims and was given a duchy as compensation. After that, she was seriously considered as a bride for Henry - there is actually historical precedent.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

It would almost certainly require no jousting accident and continued activity throughout his life

Well - he likely won't joust so much (he only did so IOTL to prove his virile masculinity, with sons he will not feel such a need)

After that, she was seriously considered as a bride for Henry - there is actually historical precedent.

When? Her renouncing her right to Brittany was ONLY tied to her wedding in Ferrara. [I will confess that @isabella will likely know better]

It could happen, if the Italian Wars of 1521-26 went to shit for France (Francis dies at Pavia, leaving the king all of 7 years old, Charles V and Charles of Bourbon snatch massive chunks of territory, etc).

Perhaps. I'd think, in this case, Renee would be forced to stay unwed for a while in case the Breton succession goes to hell, but...

 

[CaesarKhan]

When? Her renouncing her right to Brittany was ONLY tied to her wedding in Ferrara. [I will confess that @isabella will likely know better]

Admittedly this isn't my area of expertise so I may be missing parts of the situation, I'd be happy to learn more. I was under the impression that she gave up contentious claims that could cause her a lot of trouble for the security of a duchy, but I may well be wrong on that

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Admittedly this isn't my area of expertise so I may be missing parts of the situation, I'd be happy to learn more. I was under the impression that she gave up contentious claims that could cause her a lot of trouble for the security of a duchy, but I may well be wrong on that

When Claude died, her heir was her young son who succeeded as the new ruler, Brittany was technically still independent so Renee was heir to Brittany. Francis feared Brittany falling out of French hands. Hence he forced Renee to give up her place in the succession.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

That would be amusing if all his 50 children would are legitimate. It makes succession really intresting if something goes severely wrong.

Half of that number would still be impressive, and doable look at that guy's family:

John George, Elector of Brandenburg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Half of that number would still be impressive, and doable look at that guy's family:

John George, Elector of Brandenburg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I mean, there are contemporary men with more kids