The 18th Century 'Unholy' Alliance

I don't think I've seen anything discussed like this before. The search function is being silly so I apologize if it's been posed before. But anyways, the main question concerns what could be an "Unholy Alliance" in the 18th century, it's plausibility, and it's effects on the politics of Europe.

For the 18th century (or perhaps since 1688, more accurately), Britain and France were locked in a deadly struggle, knocking heads several times over the course of the century, not just in the old world, but over in the colonies as well. Britain was quite keen at forming continental alliances to botch French expansionism and to prevent a Bourbon hegemony on the continent. But this wasn't always so: prior to the Glorious Revolution, France and Britain hadn't been on awful terms. It probably didn't hurt that Charles II was eating out of Louis XIV's hand, accepting subsidies so that he didn't have to call parliament, and that they had a common foe in the Netherlands. The rivalry between the two nations is historic, yes (reaching back to the Hundred Years War, and even further back), but there were also cases of them being friendly (Elizabeth wanting to aid Henri IV).

So WI: instead of spending the 18th century duking it out, France and Britain become allies? Obviously the Glorious Revolution has to be prevented; it was William of Orange's francophobia, and Louis XIV's desire to have his cake and eat it too which were the biggest causes for the War of Spanish Succession. If 1688 is prevented, perhaps James II is less antagonistic in favoring Catholics and isn't so headstrong in creating religious tolerance, he can maintain the throne, albeit uneasily. No doubt Louis XIV would look at this favorably and would probably fund James as he did Charles II. When the Spanish King croaks in 1700, no doubt Louis XIV will still move to claim the inheritance for the Duc d'Anjou. However, there were several things which upset the English and the Dutch and drove them to aid the Austrian Habsburgs: The French occupying border forts in the Spanish Netherlands, and closing the Spanish Americas to English and Dutch trade.

If Louis XIV does not carry out these measures, the inheritance is no doubt secured (at least on paper) for his grandson. France will still have to fight the Habsburgs, and William of Orange (just Stadholder of the Netherlands in ATL) will probably jump to their aid -- I'm sure other German states will follow and maybe even some in Italy, but England will probably remain neutral, if Louis XIV throws them a bone or two to keep it that way.

That is just the basic idea. What effect would an Anglo-French relationship, evolving from that which existed since the English Restoration in 1660, have on the politics of Europe? What would be the required POD(s) to make it happen? Would the British simply have some form of splendid isolation, tactically approving of the French actions on the continent assuming they do not get too out of hand, or might an active alliance be a possibility too?

There are also plenty of butterflies, such as the Bourbons gaining the whole of the Spanish inheritance, no Utrecht, a wholly different War of the Spanish Succession.. not to mention conflicts down the road; will a proactive France seek further influence in Germany and Italy as they did IOTL? In the east, such as their adventures in the 1730s to support Stanislaw to regain the Polish throne?

These are just some rough ideas. I know that Endymion's French Hegemony TL features a powerful France and a friendly England tied to them, but I was considering another direction. With my mind currently stalled with my Miguel da Paz timeline, I am mulling over a possible TL, less text heavy involving this possible idea.
 
I think that even if you keep the Stuart-Bourbon alliance England and France would still have some kind of conflict regarding the expansion of colonial territories.

However, probably the best way to keep the alliance is to have a continued Stuart dynasty in England and avoid Spain falling into French orbit. If you want a single POD, I suggest to have Catherine of Braganza marrying Louis XIV instead of Charles II. IOTL she was proposed as a bride for the French king, but then France made peace with Spain in 1659 and Louis married Maria Theresa of Spain. If he marries Catherine then he wouldn't have children who could claim the Spanish Empire when Charles II os Spain dies, and the legal heir would be Maria Theresa or her child. If she marries a Habsburg (was there anyone available?) then Spain is kept within the family.

Without Catherine, Charles II of England would probably marry a French princess, maybe a cousin of Louis XIV or someone from the House of Savoy. With a legitimate son his brother James doesn't get the throne, and if his heir is able enough he might find someway to deal with the Parliament despite being privately Catholic.
 
After the war of the Spanish Succession, France, England, Austria & the Dutch republic formed a quadruple alliance against Spain. A POD could well be that the French Chief minister & advocate of the alliance Guillaume Dubois, did not die in 1723 but lived on. His influence then prevents the Bourbon Compact being signed & the alliance between England & France continues.
 
I think that even if you keep the Stuart-Bourbon alliance England and France would still have some kind of conflict regarding the expansion of colonial territories.

However, probably the best way to keep the alliance is to have a continued Stuart dynasty in England and avoid Spain falling into French orbit. If you want a single POD, I suggest to have Catherine of Braganza marrying Louis XIV instead of Charles II. IOTL she was proposed as a bride for the French king, but then France made peace with Spain in 1659 and Louis married Maria Theresa of Spain. If he marries Catherine then he wouldn't have children who could claim the Spanish Empire when Charles II os Spain dies, and the legal heir would be Maria Theresa or her child. If she marries a Habsburg (was there anyone available?) then Spain is kept within the family.

Without Catherine, Charles II of England would probably marry a French princess, maybe a cousin of Louis XIV or someone from the House of Savoy. With a legitimate son his brother James doesn't get the throne, and if his heir is able enough he might find someway to deal with the Parliament despite being privately Catholic.

There was some talk of Charles II marrying La Grand Mademoiselle, the daughter of Gaston d'Orléans, which would be a good match, with Louis XIV marrying Catherine of Braganza. This would create an alliance between France, Portugal, and England that would be useful in containing Spain. Portugal was a premier fairly Pro-French until the Bourbons abandoned them during the War of the Spanish Succession.

I agree there will probably be colonial conflict between the two, and probably some public distaste for the alliance, much how the French populace bemoaned the Austrian alliance that Louis XV signed in the 1750s and seeing Prussia as their true ally in Germany. I imagine French and English alike not having much love for the alliance between Stuart and Bourbon. A 1659 POD works very good for this though, thanks. :)

After the war of the Spanish Succession, France, England, Austria & the Dutch republic formed a quadruple alliance against Spain. A POD could well be that the French Chief minister & advocate of the alliance Guillaume Dubois, did not die in 1723 but lived on. His influence then prevents the Bourbon Compact being signed & the alliance between England & France continues.

Good idea, but too late for what I want. I imagine with the Bourbons enthroned in Spain, an alliance between them and France becomes likely at some point; the Bourbon compact is simply too good to pass up, the whole point of enthroning Philip V in Spain was to create a friendly border to the South. Plus, the Quadruple alliance was during the Regency of Louis XV, and Philippe d'Orléans and Philip V weren't exactly on best terms.
 
There was some talk of Charles II marrying La Grand Mademoiselle, the daughter of Gaston d'Orléans, which would be a good match, with Louis XIV marrying Catherine of Braganza. This would create an alliance between France, Portugal, and England that would be useful in containing Spain. Portugal was a premier fairly Pro-French until the Bourbons abandoned them during the War of the Spanish Succession.

I agree there will probably be colonial conflict between the two, and probably some public distaste for the alliance, much how the French populace bemoaned the Austrian alliance that Louis XV signed in the 1750s and seeing Prussia as their true ally in Germany. I imagine French and English alike not having much love for the alliance between Stuart and Bourbon. A 1659 POD works very good for this though, thanks. :)



Good idea, but too late for what I want. I imagine with the Bourbons enthroned in Spain, an alliance between them and France becomes likely at some point; the Bourbon compact is simply too good to pass up, the whole point of enthroning Philip V in Spain was to create a friendly border to the South. Plus, the Quadruple alliance was during the Regency of Louis XV, and Philippe d'Orléans and Philip V weren't exactly on best terms.

With regard to the Bourbon compact, it's signed in 1733, 10 years after the death of both Dubois and the former regent; If Dubois influences the king for another five or so years & the alliance between England & France continues, then it's possible the the compact is never signed, Louis instead going for England as a partner.
 
With regard to the Bourbon compact, it's signed in 1733, 10 years after the death of both Dubois and the former regent; If Dubois influences the king for another five or so years & the alliance between England & France continues, then it's possible the the compact is never signed, Louis instead going for England as a partner.

I'm aware, but I'm saying that it is likely at some point. If a Bourbon is crowned King of Spain, it seems likely, especially in the dynastic and national politics of the 18th century, that France and Spain will ally. Aside from the brief period in the 1720s when France went to war with Spain along with all it's former enemies from the War of the Spanish Succession (The Netherlands, England, and Austria, relations between France and Spain were rather cordial. Louis XV arranged for his son to marry a Spanish Infanta to heal the wounds that stemmed from the Duke of Bourbon sending away the Spanish Princess that would've been Louis XV's wife.

Dubois faced great difficulty signing in the Triple Alliance at any rate, and I don't really believe had any great influence over Louis XV; although he was Prime Minister for a short period, him living longer I don't really seeing having any greater effect. Cardinal Fleury was far more influential on the young Louis XV. I can see Fleury and Dubois working together, to support peace in Europe. It will depend on how things go -- if Dubois survives longer, Louis XV may not marry the Polish Marie Leszczyńska, but if marries the Spanish Infanta Mariana Victoria, I believe it would only encourage the Family compact.

It makes a good idea for a POD, but not exactly what I'm working for. I'm imagining an 18th century where Britain and France play arbiters together in Europe. I believe I have settled on the 1659 POD for this... with Louis XIV marrying the Portuguese Catherine of Braganza, and Charles II, La Grand Mademoiselle... but considering the most recent topic on that marriage and how unlikely it is by 1659, I am thinking one of the younger daughters of Gaston d'Orléans instead: Marguerite Louise seems most likely.
 
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