The 12:08 service to...

[Geordie]

On another thought, a slower dieselisation process,as well as saving money, should keep steam going longer. Several of the BR Standard classes - the Britannia class, 9Fs and a host of smaller designs -could have gone into the 70s. In OTL, some of these designs were built several years after my Dad was born in 1952, and they were all gone a few months after he'd done his O Levels in 1968.

Compare this to the "Pacer" class 142. Designed by moulding a 16 ton wagon chassis and a Leyland National bus body, these horrendous pieces of low cost kit were built as a stop-gap, first rolling off the production lines in 1985. They must be withdrawn in 2019, as they cannot comply with disability legislation.

An even more extreme example. My father vaguely remembers the LNER G5 Class (originally NER Class O), one of which is currently being built from scratch. These locos ran most of the North Eastern's passenger branch line services from their introduction in 1894-1901. All of them survived to see BR, being withdrawn between 1950 and 1958!

Also, forgive the blatant plug, but if you fancy looking at my own foray into rail-alt-hist, plenty of it can be found in this chapter of my 'Red Britain' TL, which is written in-universe by a notable OTL figure.

Forgiven, my good man. That particular TL has been on an ever growing list of ones I want to get around to reading. After seeing that particular post, it has gone to the top.

 

[Geordie]

Well I grabbed the picture from Wikipedia, and it was tagged as being at Peterborough (North), and the picture fits in with what I know of the station at that point. But then it probably fits in with a dozen different stations....I don't know. Steam trains aren't really my strong point!

Found the link now as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Peterborough_Syston_line_2_geograph-2189554.jpg

Looks like it was at Peterborough heading for Leicester. We'll keep that quiet! Feedback on the traction is appreciated though, it's difficult trying to juggle all the engine types and the butterflies caused by larger scale early electrification

No problem. The Leicester bit explains all! If you need any help on pinning down types, just let me know. I'm better with LNER and LMS types than SR and GWR, but I should be at least able to tell you which of the four they came from!

EDIT: Apologies for double posting.

 

[Devvy]

Looking great so far AS I'm not all that familiar with OTL developments in this field (even if I am interested) I was wondering if more footnotes contrasting ATL to OTL could be made? Also: as for future trains/models/routes, just remember that the butterflies will keep models the came along even 5 years later a bit different from OTL.

Duly noted. FYI....

British Railways Progress Report on the 1956 Government Mandate for the BR Modernisation Plan, for the British Railways Board
January 1962

WCML: Electrification started at roughly the same time, but the earlier mentioned extra investment into electrification and R&D means that this is progressing quicker. OTL WCML electrification reached London in 1965 from Manchester & Liverpool but excluded the Birmingham loop and Northampton loop. Here the extra investment means that the full line from London to Manchester & Liverpool including those 2 loops is scheduled to be completed by 1964. Euston station was also being reconstructed in 1962 to "modernise" the station to reflect the modern electrification. And also committing the crime of demolishing Euston Arch

ECML: Although ECML electrification was proposed in the '55 Report, it never happened. Maggie Thatcher finally got it done from '85 to '88 from London to Leeds.

GCML: Probably the biggest butterfly so far, the GCML was not electrified or planned to be, and the line was fully closed by the Beeching Cuts in OTL.

LTS: Was electrified in '61 and '62 in OTL, whereas completed by 1961 here.

GEML: London to Southend done by 1960 in both TTL and OTL.

Compare this to the "Pacer" class 142. Designed by moulding a 16 ton wagon chassis and a Leyland National bus body, these horrendous pieces of low cost kit were built as a stop-gap, first rolling off the production lines in 1985. They must be withdrawn in 2019, as they cannot comply with disability legislation.

Duly noted about the engines. Steam ITTL would probably be extended a bit to not rush the diesels, and also to continue running while electrification is occurring along the lines.

Also the Pacer's were terrible. I spent a lot of time in Yorkshire as a kid in Harrogate, and the Leeds - Harrogate line was run by Pacers back then. Horrible squealing on those trains, especially as we rounded the corner onto Crimple Viaduct approaching Harrogate. Not particularly comfortable either!

 

[Swede]

On another thought, a slower dieselisation process,as well as saving money, should keep steam going longer.

Makes sense. Instead of a big push to get rid of steam in favour of diesel and some electric) this TL has a push to electrify. Logically they'd keep the newer stem engines around to use on lines that are a lower priority.

An even more extreme example. My father vaguely remembers the LNER G5 Class (originally NER Class O), one of which is currently being built from scratch. These locos ran most of the North Eastern's passenger branch line services from their introduction in 1894-1901. All of them survived to see BR, being withdrawn between 1950 and 1958!

ahem... we've got trams still running in Stockholm that are soon to be 62 years old - and still in regular service! i.e. they ain't heritage trams, they're still on the "real" job. being replaced in a few years tho.

 

[Dunois]

Good start Devvy, its nice to see the GCML being electrified as well. This should almost by itself make the Channel Tunnel a LOT more used by freighters when it opens.

There needs to be a long term rolling programme of electrification put in place, since just electrifying the main corridors to the North is not enough. If BR is savvy on the commercial side of things, it would make sense to develop strong and integrated commuter networks for places like Birmingham and Manchester. A huge "metro like" network could be developped in both places, using what still exists or what was closed by Beeching. Might we see the Picc-Vic tunnel built in Manchester for example?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picc-Vic_tunnel

A similar tunnel might make sense in Birmingham as well considering the congestion of the New Street station should a real metro like system be developped.
Heck if the cash is there, you could even go down the route of having real underground systems similar to London being built in Manchester and Birmingham. This would be so much better than the useless toy trams built OTL!

Have you read the 1981 Electrification study and its report? It could be of use to you, especially its conclusions. If a similar report is made TTL I can honestly see almost all the network being fully electrified in TTL2011 save for perhaps some lines in Wales, Scotland or spurs like Castle Cary-Weymouth.

The Great Western will have to be electrified sooner or later, it will be expensive but worth it. It would be cool if you could have Beeching not close the Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway around my place, the line can be made profitable if run well. The HSTs or whatever similar is developped can be cascaded to cross country duties once the line is electrified.
Don't forget the Bristol-Birmingham line either, its gradients make it a prime candidate for electric power motive.

Commercially, some closues are inevitable, especially the "stumps" which are impossible to operate profitably. You could however have a system instead of OTL where the lines might be taken over by heritage railways on steroids. In addition to the touristy stuff, these guys would still try and operate the line(s) for commuters and small scale freight as well. Integrating fares with BR should be doable if there is a push for it.
The work practices such as wagon loading have to be abandonned as soon as possible, moving to containerisation is the only way to keep the freight segment of BR profitable. What they achieved during their last decade of existance offers a good example of what BR was able to do with the right attitude, ie turn profits!
The passenger segment needs clockface timetabling (when was this implemented in Britain by the way, does anyone knows?) and fast and efficient services to maintain its market shares. With the right attitudes, it is possible to kill off coaches and intertown buses. BR must see the railways as a mean to and end and not as a mean in itself unlike what it did OTL at first.

No electrified trains to Scotland until the seventies or so means that British Airways shutles will take off the ground at some point in the early seventies. Unlike in our history I however have a feeling that London-Manchester flights will never capture a majority of the market share relative to the trains.

Are the attitudes towards infrastructure different in your TL overall? If yes, this might mean that Cublington airport gets built alongside an extra thousand miles or so of motorway. All very good stuff!

 

[Swede]

WCML: Electrification started at roughly the same time, but the earlier mentioned extra investment into electrification and R&D means that this is progressing quicker. OTL WCML electrification reached London in 1965 from Manchester & Liverpool but excluded the Birmingham loop and Northampton loop. Here the extra investment means that the full line from London to Manchester & Liverpool including those 2 loops is scheduled to be completed by 1964. Euston station was also being reconstructed in 1962 to "modernise" the station to reflect the modern electrification. And also committing the crime of demolishing Euston Arch

ECML: Although ECML electrification was proposed in the '55 Report, it never happened. Maggie Thatcher finally got it done from '85 to '88 from London to Leeds.

GCML: Probably the biggest butterfly so far, the GCML was not electrified or planned to be, and the line was fully closed by the Beeching Cuts in OTL.

LTS: Was electrified in '61 and '62 in OTL, whereas completed by 1961 here.

GEML: London to Southend done by 1960 in both TTL and OTL.

Thank you Sounds like BR is going to avoid not just the deepest depths of cuts and lack of investment, but maybe also turn these depths into just a dip. Better rail won't just mean better connections for people living near the stations, it'll mean more people living near rail stations. This TL will change more than many might think.

 

[Devvy]

Cheers Dunois! Good to see you again...no updates for a while in the Franco-British Union

Yep - seen the Picc-Vic tunnel before, and here it stands a much better chance of survival. Indeed, BR did some work on it before it got cancelled so it did get going - just. As for Birmingham, I've got other ideas which we'll start to see in about 10 years of this timeline

As you say, whatever happens to Beeching here, line closures are inevitable. Especially in the north where there are a ton of lines that rely on freight and industry, and far too much duplication of lines.

The GWML will be inevitably be electrified at some point here, and other "in-fill" routes, it's just a matter of time. Attitude towards infrastructure investment here are probably much better then OTL, as BR will be able to show the '55 Modernisation Report delivered a reportable benefit unlike OTL where it showed it can....urinate...money down the drain and deliver little.

Beeching's recommendations in OTL, as well as mass closures, was full electrification of the WCML and ECML (which to that point only reached northern England) up to Glasgow & Edinburgh. He also recommended moving to containers in OTL, he did have *some* good ideas!

 

[The Oncoming Storm]

Consider me subscribed, this looks very good so far! I'm glad to see more electrification and moves towards dieselisation happening in this TL so we won't have the farce of OTL's BR continuing to build steam engines until 1960. While you rightly say that some rationalisation and cuts were inevitable, had steam traction been phased out earlier then the economics of many lines could have improved to the extent that they survived Beeching.

 

[Devvy]

The Progress Report in '62 shows that steam was still going strong in 1962 (here). Steam can't be phased out by the time Beeching is around, electrification takes time to implement, and there's no point in just using untested diesels why electrification happens as it wastes money.

Also, the mass dieselisation that BR embarked upon following the '55 report in OTL led to large numbers of unreliable diesel locomotives as they were rolled out with insufficient testing, which led further to the apparent poor performance of the railways come Beeching. My progress so far is to slow down the dieselisation to a normal "develop-test-deploy" scheme, give the new loco's proper testing & bedding in to avoid this. Also steam will continue to be used for a while until the main lines that are being electrified are done and the hop to electric power can be done in one hop.

 

[Devvy]

Next update, still 1962.

Lewisham Crash - 5 years on
February 1962

5 years on from the Lewisham Rail Crash, have lessons been learnt in order to avoid this kind of catastrophe again? Firstly let us remind ourselves what happened. It is 4th December, 1957, and there is a thick fog in London. A 10-coach train from Charing Cross is bound for Hayes, and is stopped at a signal as the signaller was unsure as to it's destination. The train driver reported that visibility was down to about 20 yards.

A few minutes later, a train from Cannon Street bound for Ramsgate is heading along the line. Due to the thick fog, and that the steam locomotives that BR still uses are left-hand drive, whereas the signals are mounted on the right. This is usually compensated by having the fireman watch from the right hand side of the cab, but this was not done for reasons unknown here. The train crashed straight into the back of the Hayes-bound train at approximately 35mph.

From the Hayes train, the rear coaches were immediately destroyed. The first coach was pushed sideways from the force of the impact, and struck one of the supports of the flyover bridge which promptly buckled and collapsed over the front 3 coachs of the train. The misery was then compounded when a train that was meant to cross over the now collapsed bridge was unable to stop in time despite the driver noticing the problem, causing the front carriage to crash down on top of the disaster site.

108 people died in the crash, with a further 212 injured, the 3rd train from the bridge causes further fatalities to injured people from the 1st train. The main source of the blame rests with the driver of the Hayes bound train, Trew. However, amid ailing mental health caused by the accident, he was discharged. British Rail was partially blamed as well due to the slow progress in had made on installing rail safety systems. The collapsed bridge was rapidly replaced and operation were restored to almost normal operation within 3 months.

5 years on though and things have progressed. Faced with criticism for it's slow progress for installing the AWS safety system, BR has sped up it's implementation. It now covers the majority of BR's intercity and suburban lines. BR's already ongoing project to modernise itself is also improving safety; new diesel and electric trains have the driver sat in a cab at the front with clear and wide visibility over the whole of the line in front, with signals on both sides easily visible.

A plaque has been erected to the victims of the crash.

-----------------

Local London Newspaper, 1962
The new Victoria Line

Construction has started on the new Victoria Line for the London Underground. Designed as an express "tube" line with few intermediate stations, and a lot of interchanges it is initially designed to run from Victoria Station to Walthamstow (Hoe Street). Various proposals exist to extend the line from this short primary stage; either to take over the rest of the British Railways Chingford branch, to be extended to Woodford to provide interchange with the Central Line - and possibly take over the Central Line branch to Ongar. Southbound, more solid proposals exist that would see the line extended from Victoria to Brixton.

The line also utilises both new and old technologies. One simple but effective idea has been to build the stations at a higher level then the rest of the line - this results in trains going uphill and naturally slowing as they approach a station, and then going downhill as they leave providing a boost to acceleration and reducing the power needed. The line will also utilise cross platform interchange, so that southbound trains from 2 different lines use the two faces of one platform, with the northbound trains using the two faces of a different platform. Current London Underground lines are usually organised by line. This more efficient concept allows quick passenger transfers between lines as passengers are usually headed in one overall direction.

The line is expected to be finished by the end of the decade.

-----------------

Notes:
The OTL Lewisham train crash happened as described, except the third train that would of gone over the bridge saw the collapsed bridge and just managed to stop in time, avoiding further casualties (the train engine hung over the edge and was later towed back - it was a matter of sheer metres). Here in this TL, the train doesn't stop in time and crashes on top of the trains below causing further fatalities and injuries. It takes fire to turn iron into steel....

The Victoria line here starts in 1962, as in OTL, and the initial stage runs from Victoria to Walthamstow Central (then known as Hoe Street), again as in OTL.

 

[Geordie]

And also committing the crime of demolishing Euston Arch

Definitely a crime. I am however, informed that everything at Euston, other than the arch, was a complete mess...

Also the Pacer's were terrible. I spent a lot of time in Yorkshire as a kid in Harrogate, and the Leeds - Harrogate line was run by Pacers back then. Horrible squealing on those trains, especially as we rounded the corner onto Crimple Viaduct approaching Harrogate. Not particularly comfortable either!

I can imagine, having gone through the curves at the ends of the bridges over the Tyne many times before the Metro extension saved my ears. Bogies were invented over a hundred years before those damn monstrosities, so there's no excuse!

Ahem... we've got trams still running in Stockholm that are soon to be 62 years old - and still in regular service! i.e. they ain't heritage trams, they're still on the "real" job. being replaced in a few years tho.

Sweet. Means I'll defintiely try visiting Stockholm sooner rather than later.

ECML: Although ECML electrification was proposed in the '55 Report, it never happened. Maggie Thatcher finally got it done from '85 to '88 from London to Leeds.

Beeching's recommendations in OTL, as well as mass closures, was full electrification of the WCML and ECML (which to that point only reached northern England) up to Glasgow & Edinburgh. He also recommended moving to containers in OTL, he did have *some* good ideas!

Actually, the East Coast Mainline is London Kings Cross to Edinburgh (then on to Glasgow, Aberdeen, Inverness...) The Leeds line is essentially a spur from Doncaster. Admittedly, this spur is as important as the line North, but it ain't the mainline. It is, however, a good place to head for first when elctrifying.

Beeching envisaged all Scotland bound traffic going up the WCML, claiming that the route from Carstairs on the WCML would suffice for Edinburgh, and the rest of Scotland could easily go to Glasgow. This would then allow him to terminate the ECML at Newcastle. Apart from Newcastle's northern commuter and coal lines, there would be nothing between there and Edinburgh. Lunatic.

The OTL Lewisham train crash happened as described, except the third train that would of gone over the bridge saw the collapsed bridge and just managed to stop in time, avoiding further casualties (the train engine hung over the edge and was later towed back - it was a matter of sheer metres). Here in this TL, the train doesn't stop in time and crashes on top of the trains below causing further fatalities and injuries. It takes fire to turn iron into steel....

Grim reading, but that's what the flap of a butterfly's wing can do.
The only question I have is how only the first carriage added to the mess, unless that could hit the wreckage while dangling, and so prevent the subsequent carriages joining it?...

 

[Devvy]

Actually, the East Coast Mainline is London Kings Cross to Edinburgh (then on to Glasgow, Aberdeen, Inverness...) The Leeds line is essentially a spur from Doncaster. Admittedly, this spur is as important as the line North, but it ain't the mainline. It is, however, a good place to head for first when elctrifying.

That's what I meant (although I can see how the ambiguity in what I wrote) - Thatcher electrified the ECML as far as Doncaster and the spur to Leeds by 1988, and the full stretch to Edinburgh was done 2 years later by 1990.

 

[Basileus Giorgios]

Compare this to the "Pacer" class 142. Designed by moulding a 16 ton wagon chassis and a Leyland National bus body, these horrendous pieces of low cost kit were built as a stop-gap, first rolling off the production lines in 1985. They must be withdrawn in 2019, as they cannot comply with disability legislation.

Am I the only railway enthusiast in the UK who has a soft spot for Pacers?

 

[Devvy]

Am I the only railway enthusiast in the UK who has a soft spot for Pacers?

Pretty much

 

[Geordie]

That's what I meant (although I can see how the ambiguity in what I wrote) - Thatcher electrified the ECML as far as Doncaster and the spur to Leeds by 1988, and the full stretch to Edinburgh was done 2 years later by 1990.

I assumed you knew, but taken with the whole Beeching trying to shut the thing down foolishness, thought I'd get defensive. I mean, at present, my godparents live about 90 minutes away in Edinburgh. If I had to go all the way to Carlisle, then three quarters of the way to Glasgow to reach them, I wouldn't be impressed. Then again, I'm currently bunking down in deepest Hampshire, so that's further still...

Am I the only railway enthusiast in the UK who has a soft spot for Pacers?

Yes.

The 140 literally was a bus on an old coal wagon chassis, and the 141s and 142s show it. Least the 143s and 144s looked vaguely like trains. They were built as cheap as possible, and it showed.

I once had a nice ride on one. The problem is, this was Newcastle to Darlington, on the ECML. While this rickety thing bowling along at 75mph was rather worrying, it worked well and smoothly on nice, straight, continuously welded rail. Pity it was designed for use on riveted, curving branches. Ask the Cornish how much Pacers like curves.

 

[Devvy]

I assumed you knew, but taken with the whole Beeching trying to shut the thing down foolishness, thought I'd get defensive. I mean, at present, my godparents live about 90 minutes away in Edinburgh. If I had to go all the way to Carlisle, then three quarters of the way to Glasgow to reach them, I wouldn't be impressed. Then again, I'm currently bunking down in deepest Hampshire, so that's further still...

Haha, no worries

I live in Hampshire as well - so for personal reasons I'd rather like to keep the Alton line open right through to Winchester rather then being the stub it is at the moment!

 

[Geordie]

I live in Hampshire as well - so for personal reasons I'd rather like to keep the Alton line open right through to Winchester rather then being the stub it is at the moment!

I respectfully request that you let me have an excursion on the Watercress Line before you destroy it with your meddling in the Space-time Continuum!

That suggests you're slightly deeper than I am, but it's all pretty far south to a Geordie lad!

 

[Devvy]

Grim reading, but that's what the flap of a butterfly's wing can do.
The only question I have is how only the first carriage added to the mess, unless that could hit the wreckage while dangling, and so prevent the subsequent carriages joining it?...

Well apparently (OTL) "the first carriage of the train was tilted over the edge at an angle". Which leads me to imply from that, that is was an EMU, so no engine on the front.

ITTL, that first carriage has gone over the edge and crushed the carriages beneath it that it landed upon, but the second carriage isn't pulled over luckily. The couplings gave way as the back end of the first carriage was pulled off the edge at slow speed while the front of the second carriage was still on firm ground.

I respectfully request that you let me have an excursion on the Watercress Line before you destroy it with your meddling in the Space-time Continuum!

That suggests you're slightly deeper than I am, but it's all pretty far south to a Geordie lad!

Well I'm actually a Yorkshireman by birth (hence the time in Yorkshire as a kid) - which is still south to you I guess

 

[Geordie]

Well apparently (OTL) "the first carriage of the train was tilted over the edge at an angle". Which leads me to imply from that, that is was an EMU, so no engine on the front.

ITTL, that first carriage has gone over the edge and crushed the carriages beneath it that it landed upon, but the second carriage isn't pulled over luckily. The couplings gave way as the back end of the first carriage was pulled off the edge at slow speed while the front of the second carriage was still on firm ground.

I hadn't considered the speed properly. That should be enough to shear the couplings without dragging the rest of the train down.

Well I'm actually a Yorkshireman by birth (hence the time in Yorkshire as a kid) - which is still south to you I guess

As a very dear (and at the time, very drunk) Devonian friend once declared: "everything North of Bristol is the South!"

 

[Dunois]

Am I the only railway enthusiast in the UK who has a soft spot for Pacers?

The Pacers have a place in my opinion on small branch lines, since their low maintenance and operating costs make them ideal to try and improve the margins there. Even then with current technologies, things like Parry People Movers might be a better choice. My feeling is that one day we will see "battery operated" multiple units for these kind of lines. Charging up on current when running under the wires and using the batteries on the branch lines.

Nevertheless between say Bristol and Taunton as I have had the ahem "pleasure" of doing recnetly, they don't have a place and actually shift patronage away from the trains and towards the roads in my opinion.