Thatcher Survives-So Does British Rail

Which Tory Leader do you think could beat Blair?

  • Michael Portillo

    Votes: 45 41.3%
  • John Redwood

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Ken Clarke

    Votes: 28 25.7%
  • Michael Heseltine

    Votes: 17 15.6%
  • Malcolm Rifkind

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cecil Parkinson

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Margret Thatcher

    Votes: 42 38.5%
  • Gillian Shepherd

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    109
John Redwood?

Well that’s Labour winning until he’s ousted then...

I hope Blair can be persuaded to leave BR alone.

New Labour didn't do that much to the railways in our timeline, however it would be inevitable that they would try and tinker around with PPP iniatives in the early 2000s. Especially with the multi-billion pound worth Network South East which would be so lucative to open up to market investment.

Hope everyone is finding it good so far.
 
Might New Labour spin off InterCity, Network SE, and fright services as independent companies under 60-70% BR ownership?
 
IIRC Labour had proposed a plan to allow BR to borrow on the commercial market. Transport in the first Blair government was pretty much Prescott's baby, and again IIRC he was the one who publicly mentioned the proposal in @ as an alternative to privatisation.
 
IIRC Labour had proposed a plan to allow BR to borrow on the commercial market. Transport in the first Blair government was pretty much Prescott's baby, and again IIRC he was the one who publicly mentioned the proposal in @ as an alternative to privatisation.

Essentially this is what Margret Thatcher allows to happen in this timeline, in order to quell the privatisation debate and hang onto suburban votes in the Home Counties. That said, I'm sure not all of these reforms would be enacated very well or at all under Thatcher so there'll be some more room for commericalisation of British Rail.

That said, with a more centralised railway system, perhaps we'd see more central planning for high speed lines and Picc-Vicc style projects in the early 2000s.
 
I could see New Labour retaining the core of BR in public ownership, but selling off more peripheral bits, like onboard & station catering. I can still remember the chain of BR kiosks that sold hot & cold snacks on stations. :)

The (presumed) second Blair administration could perhaps do things like privatise freight, and train maintenance. Even perhaps open the network to 'open access' private operators like Grand Central of @.
 
Network SouthEast Forever


Monday the 10thJune 1996 was a special day-it marked the 10-year anniversary of Network SouthEast.

When privatisation was definitely off the agenda by 1991, NSE had already begun planning for this day ever since. It had envisioned, at London Bridge station, to lineup all the new vehicles that NSE would have built over the past six years-including the class 465-Kent Link Networker, class 471- Main Line Networker, class 381- Universal Networker sub family and with mockups commissioned of the class 371- Express Networker, class 341-Crossrail Networker, class 331 Heathrow Networker-that was exactly what happened. Being on a Monday, a select group of season ticket holders were allowed to join the event, where a large reception was held in the nearby Guys Hospital, overlooking one of the many centerpieces to Network SouthEast’s empire-London Bridge station. Soon to be remodeled for Thameslink. Network SouthEast was going to push the boat out-the station forecourt on the Central side was reserved for guests after the morning rush, and a red carpet (stewards joked it should have been a red, white and blue carpet”) had been thrown along the platforms to where the new Networkers sat, waiting for inspection. and served champagne and pastries for the guests and press. Unlike the previous Network Days which encouraged passenger attendance, NSE put a bigger focus on the media, showing the glitz and glamour of the 1980s which birthed NSE would still live into the 1990s.

Delegates from local railways came from all over the world, a reporter from the New York times would comment on return to America that “the Brits had done something amazing here. In less than 10 years they’ve almost completely modernized one of the most intensive commuter railroads in the world.” Christian Wolmar, the famed transport journalist was one of the attendes on Monday, who wrote a less than celebratory piece in the Independent:

"It's a shame that Britiain's railways have descended into tacky corpratisim and shameful extravagance. No doubt Thatcher is proud of the legacy she left for the public's railways."

Even NSE’s former managing director-Chris Green had turned up, where he announced he will be taken over chairmanship of British Rail from Sir Bob Reid in 1998 to a round of applause, but may have took it a bit too far when he passionately evoked Winston Churchill by declaring NSE was "the railway to last a thousand years". Later on that weekend, NSE ran special galas around its Network featuring class 50s, 47s, Wessex Electrics, 471s and 4VEPs.

It may almost be the year 2000, but for Network SouthEast, the 1980s lives on.

1280px-NSE_Eridge-Edenbridge_celebrations_%281988%29_06.JPG


On the weekend of the of the 16th and 17th June 1996, celebrations were held across the entire Network for the 10th birthday of Network South East. Here is the scene at Eridge station in West Sussex on Saturday the 16th June 1996.

However, there was little, if any, representation from the new government at the time. Gillian Shepard, the former Transport Secretary had known of the event, and was to have attended should the Conservatives had won the 1996 snap General Election. However, with Tony Blair still celebrating, quite literally his victory behind the black door of Number 10, there was a loss in communication between the outgoing Shepard and the incoming John Prescott. It would serve a mark for New Labour’s general apathy for the railways; having inherited a part private-part publicly owned railway, there seemed nothing more that New Labour could do with them. They just seemed to improve themselves. Blair wasn’t at all interested, and Gordon Brown, the new Chancellor of the Exchequer could only care about funding the welfare state-and extracting any money he could from the booming railways to feed the hungry Treasury, of course.

Towards the autumn of 1996, the last Intercity 250 trainset rolled of the production line at Washwood Heath, ready for service for the Christmas rush. Intercity organised a farewell tour for the final locomotive hauled train to leave London Euston. The 19:00 London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly 87027 Wolf of Badenoch left Euston to much lament by the dozens of train enthusiasts lining the platform. It was bittersweet, as while the 87s would no longer charge over Shap and Beattock, they would make their last stand on the newly electrified Midland Main Line to Nottingham, which would begin operation in 1999. The class 90s, were dispersed across the network, replacing the most unreliable class 86s on freight haulage and taking over London to Norwich services out of Liverpool Street.

Intercity was also busy refurbishing much of its 125 fleet in order for the coaches to have the same standard as the new Intercity 250s. New seating and carpeting was fitted at BR's Doncaster works, while the individual LHCS for the Midland Mainline and Cross Country would largely escape refurbishment until the new millenium. The absence of 125s from the Great Western routes led to some interesting diagrams, and for the first time since the 1970s, class 47s hauled London to Cardiff and Bristol expresses.

As the dust began to settle from the election, Network SouthEast began to realise it could not continue with having a large organization that simply ran both regional, outer suburban and inner London metro services in tandem. With Crossrail, and being trusted with the Chelsea to Hackney Line, Managing Director of Network SouthEast-Chris Stokes, commissioned a report, the “1997 Inner London Rail Study”, a hark to the 1989 Central London Route Study by London Transport, of how to make best use of the suburban traffic in London. Meanwhile, over on Regional Railways, the greatest period of change for the regions was underway.

Thanks to Organisation for Quality, Regional Railways’ Subsectors were broken up, and authority and power transferred to the Passenger Transport Executives. This was due to be complete by 1998 and the sector was busy reordination command and control lines to the various Regional centres. New PTEs were constructed for lines that did not have a single centre of gravity, such as the East Midlands, Lincolnshire and East Anglian Regions as well as the West Country and Cornwall. Various more Intercity style RR routes were given and the PTE’s would be modelled on that on Network South East. Short and medium distance regional routes would all emanate from a hub city, such as Birmingham or Liverpool. However, longer distance Regional Routes such as Transpennine, West Wales to Birmingham, Birmingham to East Anglia or Cardiff to Manchester services would be given the new brand name AlphaLine This would have been operated by class 158 DMUs and would begin operation in the 1997 timetable.

AlphaLine Routes

Cardiff to Southampton

Penzance to West Wales

Cardiff to Manchester/Midlands

Transpennine

East Anglia to Midlands/North West routes

The new Reigonal PTEs would be handed over the keys from RR in 1998, when O4Q plans had settled down on Intercity and the 250 upgrade had been completed. Files and paperworks already started being shiped across Britain, from York to Manchester and from Preston to Birmingham, ready for the new decentralisation of Britain's regional rail network. GMPTE would look forward to class 315s and class 165s displaced by CrossRail from the South to replace their ageing slam door EMUs and the widely loathed Pacer units on non-electrified services.

As Regional Railways began an enormous rebranding exercise, repainting each one of its multiple units into their new PTE liveries, the final years of the 90s for British Rail would suddenly be rocked by a series of political clashes with the old and new ideological wings of Tony Blair's Labour government.
 
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Oh very interesting developments.

Since NSE is generally profitable, I hope the politicians are not expecting the same from the regions...
 
Oh very interesting developments.

Since NSE is generally profitable, I hope the politicians are not expecting the same from the regions...

From talking to someone who worked in BR management towards privatisation, it seemed that making RR profitable was going to be a massive conundrum. Whilst IC and NSE would essentially be let to do their own thing, RR would still be completely publically owned.
 
The 19:00 London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly 87027 Wolf of Badenoch left Euston to much lament by the dozens of train enthusiasts lining the platform.
Awwwww, it doesn't get to do it's most notable thing in OTL :'( ( =P )
Thanks to Organisation for Quality, Regional Railways’ Subsectors were broken up, and authority and power transferred to the Passenger Transport Executives. This was due to be complete by 1998 and the sector was busy reordination command and control lines to the various Regional centres. New PTEs were constructed for lines that did not have a single centre of gravity, such as the East Midlands, Lincolnshire and East Anglian Regions as well as the West Country and Cornwall. Various more Intercity style RR routes were given and the PTE’s would be modelled on that on Network South East. Short and medium distance regional routes would all emanate from a hub city, such as Birmingham or Liverpool. However, longer distance Regional Routes such as Transpennine, West Wales to Birmingham, Birmingham to East Anglia or Cardiff to Manchester services would be given the new brand name AlphaLine This would have been operated by class 158 DMUs and would begin operation in the 1997 timetable.
If we do get the 2009 credit crunch, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Network NorthWest appear.
As Regional Railways began an enormous rebranding exercise, repainting each one of its multiple units into their new PTE liveries, the final years of the 90s for British Rail would suddenly be rocked by a series of political clashes with the old and new ideological wings of Tony Blair's Labour government.
This is going to get messy & costly (in more ways than one...).
 
Awwwww, it doesn't get to do it's most notable thing in OTL :'( ( =P )

If we do get the 2009 credit crunch, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Network NorthWest appear.

This is going to get messy & costly (in more ways than one...).

I'm unaware of the adventures of that particular loco, do share ;)

Believe me I have already planned the timeline up to 2010, and yes things do begin to change drastically after the credit crunch.

The idea however is that Network NorthWest does sort of make a reappearence in this timeline, but it would be branded differently. I will talk more about the branding of RR in the next post, but the existing PTE branding would mostly stay the same. Only new brands, such as the East Midlands, South West and Wales would be created. Existing PTE's would otherwise just be refreshed.
 

Devvy

Donor
NNW went completely wrong from what I've read when the introduction of a new timetable was an utter disaster.

Agree; my understanding is that it seems to have been a mix of crap rolling stock (in the North? Who knew!) breaking down, poor staff training, and the new timetable trying to introduce longer cross-city routes from stitching together shorter routes which just introduced more and more delays.
 
I'm unaware of the adventures of that particular loco, do share ;)
On the 20th of June 1999, it demolished 142 008 at Winsford. It spent about a year and a half being repaired and returned to service but was eventually scrapped in 2010 at Kingsbury. The pacer was completely destroyed but the rear unit (another 142) survived and is still with Northern.
 
On the 20th of June 1999, it demolished 142 008 at Winsford. It spent about a year and a half being repaired and returned to service but was eventually scrapped in 2010 at Kingsbury. The pacer was completely destroyed but the rear unit (another 142) survived and is still with Northern.

Interesting!

Reading about the crash on Wikipedia, my thoughts are-

1. Following the Intercity 250 upgrade, signalling would be upgraded to stop the Pacer from passing the signal at danger and butterflies the crash away

2. Intercity 250 has no affect on the crash, and a 125 mph class 93 would not be able to stop in time. The crash is much worse and bad publicity for Intercity and their new super train.

3. As 2, but the entire sequence of events following up from Margret Thatcher surviving her 1990 leadership election causes a butterfly effect that changes the driver of the Pacer to one who would notice the signal.

How comes the red signal did not activate the Pacers brakes?
 
I mean with a name like “Wolf of Badenoch” I wouldn’t expect anything less!

I wonder if the MP Kemi Badenoch would be impressed to know a class 87 baring her name demolished a Pacer...
 
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