That Wacky Redhead

[NCW8]

Yes--it's never really about getting home, because they pretty much all assume the human race is extinct anyway. Grant Naylor pitched it as "Stepford and Son on acid IIIIIN SPAAAAAACE" (yes, those are the actual words they used). Like a lot of British comedy, much of the humour comes from clash of classes. But IIIIIN SPAAAAAACE.

<accent=Brummy>basically it's a love story across time, space, death, and reality</accent>

I've had a look at some of the remastered scenes on YouTube. As you say, they're not really an improvement. What is interesting is one of the things they didn't do. When Red Dwarf was first produced, they wanted the holograms to appear in black and white - someting like this. In the nineties there was actually a Red Dwarf comic that depicted Rimmer like this. Obviously this special effect was too expensive to do at the time. Either they've forgotten about this now or they still couldn't afford it.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[phx1138]

I don't know if it's the same book, but Douglas Hofstadter said something similar in the preface to the 20th anniversary edition of Gödel, Escher, Bach.

It's not (since I never heard of it, or him). I'm trying to think if it was Don Pendleton or David Gerrold.

 

[Brainbin]

Thank you all so much for 200,000 views! The popularity of this timeline is truly humbling to me But I'm not going to insult all of you by lying and saying that I never fantasized that it could be this big, because I dream big dreams. And as we should all know by now, Big Dreams Have Big Consequences!

Hey man, Dolemite's fight choreography put's Bruce Lee to shame.

You seem to have an affinity for truly wretched fight choreography, vultan, what with this and "Arena"

And since we're sharing our favourite Rudy Ray Moore vehicles, allow me to present mine: Disco Godfather! Put yo weight on it!

For anyone who fears this, if you haven't seen "S1mone", watch it! Even without the (notional) CGI star, it would be a cutting look at the Hollywood system.

I remember S1m0ne - between it and Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, there was a lot of rumbling about the end of the star system (until they were released, of course).

It was like he was channelling De, it really was. That was Oscar material. Tho I'll say, seeing Sylar as Spock was a bit neck-twisting. He, again, captured the character beautifully.

Maybe it's because Nimoy was still there (and apparently he'll be in the sequel, too - the irony abounds) that I wasn't really wowed by Quinto's performance.

An aside: I never got the sense from "TOS" Pike was that much older than Kirk. (Hard to tell from "The Menagerie", what with him being so mangled.)

Well, we can check with simple arithmetic. Jeffrey Hunter turned 38 during the filming of "The Cage", and looked it, if not older. That's eleven "years" before "The Menagerie", at which time Kirk was 33 (he's 34 one year later, in "The Deadly Years") and Shatner was 35. So it's a gap of about fifteen years. In Star Trek XI, Kirk is 25, so Pike logically should be about 40, to keep consistent (but Bruce Greenwood was 51, and looked it). But chronology is not that movie's strong suit, and we should probably leave it at that.

And cement his rep as the #1 badass in film a generation early?

You better believe it. He'll probably even inspire those wallets. You know the ones

Also easier for you not to have to change any?

No comment

I"ve never even heard of them, I don't think... Which may explain why he doesn't do them as much.

Oh, you've heard of them, trust me.

I just can't think of anything where she really sticks in my memory, either.

Not even her "Mr. Adventure" scene in Star Trek III? One of the many, many gems of the "Stealing the Enterprise" sequence (which saves that movie all by itself).

Any chance that she could land a role in Roots ? That series did have an affinity with Star Trek actors. Of course the book was only published in 1976, but it seems that Haley was inspired by a book by Harold Courlander which was published in 1967, so it's likely that he'll write something similar ITTL.

Excellent question! But you know I couldn't possibly tell you either way. So there's only one way to find out!

Yes--it's never really about getting home, because they pretty much all assume the human race is extinct anyway. Grant Naylor pitched it as "Stepford and Son on acid IIIIIN SPAAAAAACE" (yes, those are the actual words they used). Like a lot of British comedy, much of the humour comes from clash of classes. But IIIIIN SPAAAAAACE.

What I have seen looks pretty good, occasional clunky "message" show aside - and isn't it funny how even parody science-fiction always has to do allegory?

Interesting update tho I don't know enough about blaxploitation to comment.

Thanks for the compliment in any event, Professor

BTW nice move getting the word "percolate" in there

Thanks for noticing! I hereby award you the No-Prize for Punditry!

I'm not sure when the next (and last!) update of the 1975-76 cycle will be ready, but it finally answers the question of who will be the next President of the United States!

 

[phx1138]

200,000 views!

(And more ) And only a touch behind schedule. Party!!!

I remember S1m0ne

I frankly expected it to be awful...but it was one of the funniest, & yet the most insightful, films I've seen in a very long time.

Maybe it's because Nimoy was still there (and apparently he'll be in the sequel, too - the irony abounds)

I won't compare him to Leonard, but I could see the young Spock in him, in a way I couldn't for the others.

Jeffrey Hunter turned 38 during the filming of "The Cage", and looked it, if not older. That's eleven "years" before "The Menagerie", at which time Kirk was 33 (he's 34 one year later, in "The Deadly Years") and Shatner was 35. So it's a gap of about fifteen years.

That's about right as I recall it. Whitfield has Kirk one of the youngest Captains in the Fleet, & his OTL backstory has him getting a fast promotion when his old CO is killed. (Can't recall the name or episode offhand...) So fair to say, IMO, he's "low in the zone" to begin with, plus he's made out a "comer". That said, "ST XII" blows up the canon anyhow...

You better believe it. He'll probably even inspire those wallets. You know the ones

No comment

And you know as well as I do that amounts to "guilty guilty guilty".

Oh, you've heard of them, trust me.

Then memory, fortunately, fails me.

Not even her "Mr. Adventure" scene in Star Trek III? One of the many, many gems of the "Stealing the Enterprise" sequence (which saves that movie all by itself).

TBH, no. A cute scene, well-played, but not exceptional. To repeat: I don't mean to denigrate, but simply not one who really shines for me.

No-Prize for Punditry!

Even Stan Lee wouldn't have stooped that low.

who will be the next President of the United States!

I nominate Samuel L. Jackson. (Why not? Except it'd mean Morgan Freeman doesn't get the job...)

 

[Lord Insane]

Maybe it's because Nimoy was still there (and apparently he'll be in the sequel, too - the irony abounds) that I wasn't really wowed by Quinto's performance.

That and Urban's performance is probably the problem - Quinto's performance may be good, but he's up against Urban's extremely good performance and the real Spock, so he comes up lacking in comparison.

 

[Thande]

<accent=Brummy>basically it's a love story across time, space, death, and reality</accent>

I've had a look at some of the remastered scenes on YouTube. As you say, they're not really an improvement. What is interesting is one of the things they didn't do. When Red Dwarf was first produced, they wanted the holograms to appear in black and white - someting like this. In the nineties there was actually a Red Dwarf comic that depicted Rimmer like this. Obviously this special effect was too expensive to do at the time. Either they've forgotten about this now or they still couldn't afford it.

Cheers,
Nigel.

They had all sorts of ideas about how to indicate Rimmer was a hologram, all of which as you say proved too expensive. I have to wonder if "Put a great big H on his forehead" started out as a sarcastic suggestion

Interestingly the short-lived American version of Red Dwarf at one point considered replacing the H with a red circle on his forehead, apparently because American TV execs in the nineties had not heard of racism against Indians

What I have seen looks pretty good, occasional clunky "message" show aside - and isn't it funny how even parody science-fiction always has to do allegory?

I can't remember Red Dwarf doing many 'message' shows, except perhaps in series 7 which was criticised for being "too much sci-fi and not enough comedy".

What's interesting is that some people claim Star Trek TNG stole plots from Red Dwarf, as there were two episodes' plots in Red Dwarf series 3 (1988) that suspiciously resembled plots from TNG episodes in season 5 (1992).

 

[NCW8]

Excellent question! But you know I couldn't possibly tell you either way. So there's only one way to find out!

Intriguing !

What I have seen looks pretty good, occasional clunky "message" show aside - and isn't it funny how even parody science-fiction always has to do allegory?

It's an SF show in its own right, as well as being a parody of one. That means it's got to have allegory, clunky message shows and fan-anger about remastering. AFAIR, it hasn't had the mandatory Wonderful Life episode, but the film was referenced in the novels.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[The Professor]

They had all sorts of ideas about how to indicate Rimmer was a hologram, all of which as you say proved too expensive. I have to wonder if "Put a great big H on his forehead" started out as a sarcastic suggestion

Interestingly the short-lived American version of Red Dwarf at one point considered replacing the H with a red circle on his forehead, apparently because American TV execs in the nineties had not heard of racism against Indians



I can't remember Red Dwarf doing many 'message' shows, except perhaps in series 7 which was criticised for being "too much sci-fi and not enough comedy".

What's interesting is that some people claim Star Trek TNG stole plots from Red Dwarf, as there were two episodes' plots in Red Dwarf series 3 (1988) that suspiciously resembled plots from TNG episodes in season 5 (1992).

Which ones? (since I lazily can't be bothered to search )

 

[Thande]

Which ones? (since I lazily can't be bothered to search )

TNG episode "Clues" is similar to Red Dwarf episode "Thanks for the Memory", as noted in the Red Dwarf programme guide:

Howarth and Lyons note that the American show "has the cast waking up to find that time has passed of which they have no memory. Despite the insistence of their mechanical crew member, they attempt to find out what has happened, but learn that they were better off not knowing. One of them even has a broken limb...

I got the seasons slightly wrong above, but the point is the Red Dwarf episode came a couple of years before the Trek one.

There was another example but I can't remember what it was, it's listed in the same book but I don't have it on me.

 

[The Professor]

Thank you all so much for 200,000 views! The popularity of this timeline is truly humbling to me But I'm not going to insult all of you by lying and saying that I never fantasized that it could be this big, because I dream big dreams. And as we should all know by now, Big Dreams Have Big Consequences!

Woo!

Thanks for the compliment in any event, Professor

No worries

Thanks for noticing! I hereby award you the No-Prize for Punditry!

Yay, I can now lord it over my coworkers

I'm not sure when the next (and last!) update of the 1975-76 cycle will be ready, but it finally answers the question of who will be the next President of the United States!

TNG episode "Clues" is similar to Red Dwarf episode "Thanks for the Memory", as noted in the Red Dwarf programme guide:



I got the seasons slightly wrong above, but the point is the Red Dwarf episode came a couple of years before the Trek one.

There was another example but I can't remember what it was, it's listed in the same book but I don't have it on me.

Ah. Yes, indeed. There's even a reference to the need to remove "clues"

 

[NCW8]

TNG episode "Clues" is similar to Red Dwarf episode "Thanks for the Memory", as noted in the Red Dwarf programme guide:

There was another example but I can't remember what it was, it's listed in the same book but I don't have it on me.

There are also some similarities between the Red Dwarf episode Gunmen of the Apocalypse and the TNG episode A Fistful of Datas, though in that case the TNG episode was broadcast first. The simularity was such that Patrick Stewart nearly called his lawyers, as described in this interview.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Cataquack Warrior]

There's a question I've meant to bring up, though it might be too late at this point:

How does Lucille's role change the emergence of Japanese anime in America?

Osamu Tezuka- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osamu_Tezuka- was one of the great pioneers in Japanese manga and anime, producing series such as Phoenix and Astro Boy that posed important questions about humanity, sorrow, and life.

Astro Boy- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astro_Boy_(1960s)- was made into an English anime as "Mighty Atom" by NBC and ran from 1963 to 1965. I'd be interested to see Desilu take a more active role in the series, but it may already be too late at this point.

There is another opportunity though: Phoenix- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_(manga)- A collection of stories that address fate, reincarnation, immortality, and life as a whole. There was a live action movie released in the U.S. in 1982, and a couple of animated movies and specials were also released in that decade.

I'm wondering if, as with the British alliance for Doctor Who, Desilu decides to take onboard some of Tezuka's works either as movies or TV series. I think Lucille, after taking a closer look, would be interested in the depth of human drama embedded in the stories. The challenge would be to tackle the traditional association of animation with children. I think that the solution might be to launch a pilot movie or special for Phoenix that has a mix between live action filming in "reality" and animation in an otherworld that the story steps into. I feel that such a mix between fantasy and reality would work well in a Phoenix-based story, assuming a new one was created for the production.

Another possible link is that Tezuka was invited by Kubrick to do the art for Space Odyssey: 2011, but declined due to the travel required.

I should also point out that Tezuka and Ball had similar lifespans, both passing away in 1989. It would be interesting to see them get together late in life and work together for a last fling. Given that Phoenix was Tezuka's life work, it would be an interesting thing to consider for a collaboration.

Another important anime figure is Hayao Miyazaki- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki. In 1984, he directed the epic environmental anime movie Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_the_Wind_(film). During the 1980s, it was re-produced in the U.S. by New World Pictures, but was greatly edited and botched due to misconceptions on it being a childrens' film. I'd be interested to see Desilu take it under its wing. Since this film was the start for Miyazaki, who subsequently founded Studio Ghibli, this could lead to many changes.

Also, I'd be interested in seeing how the butterflies affect Macross- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Super_Dimension_Fortress_Macross.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Just to keep track, we're up to 1974?

 

[Pyro]

There's a question I've meant to bring up, though it might be too late at this point:

How does Lucille's role change the emergence of Japanese anime in America?

Osamu Tezuka- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osamu_Tezuka- was one of the great pioneers in Japanese manga and anime, producing series such as Phoenix and Astro Boy that posed important questions about humanity, sorrow, and life.

Astro Boy- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astro_Boy_(1960s)- was made into an English anime as "Mighty Atom" by NBC and ran from 1963 to 1965. I'd be interested to see Desilu take a more active role in the series, but it may already be too late at this point.

There is another opportunity though: Phoenix- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_(manga)- A collection of stories that address fate, reincarnation, immortality, and life as a whole. There was a live action movie released in the U.S. in 1982, and a couple of animated movies and specials were also released in that decade.

I'm wondering if, as with the British alliance for Doctor Who, Desilu decides to take onboard some of Tezuka's works either as movies or TV series. I think Lucille, after taking a closer look, would be interested in the depth of human drama embedded in the stories. The challenge would be to tackle the traditional association of animation with children. I think that the solution might be to launch a pilot movie or special for Phoenix that has a mix between live action filming in "reality" and animation in an otherworld that the story steps into. I feel that such a mix between fantasy and reality would work well in a Phoenix-based story, assuming a new one was created for the production.

Another possible link is that Tezuka was invited by Kubrick to do the art for Space Odyssey: 2011, but declined due to the travel required.

I should also point out that Tezuka and Ball had similar lifespans, both passing away in 1989. It would be interesting to see them get together late in life and work together for a last fling. Given that Phoenix was Tezuka's life work, it would be an interesting thing to consider for a collaboration.

Another important anime figure is Hayao Miyazaki- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki. In 1984, he directed the moving environmental anime movie Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_the_Wind_(film). During the 1980s, it was re-produced in the U.S. by New World Pictures, but was greatly edited due to misconceptions on it being a childrens' film. I'd be interested to see Desilu take it under its wing. Since this film was the start for Miyazaki, who subsequently founded Studio Ghibli, this could lead to many changes.

Also, I'd be interested in seeing how the butterflies affect Macross- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Super_Dimension_Fortress_Macross.

There is also Ninja Science Team Gatchaman (AKA Battle of the Planets) and Battleship Yamato (Star Blazers) to consider.

 

[NCW8]

Just to keep track, we're up to 1974?

1976. A recent post covered the Montreal Olympics.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[e of pi]

1976. A recent post covered the Montreal Olympics.

Cheers,
Nigel.

Yes. The next update will be covering the 1976 election, and I'm looking forward to it a lot.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

1976. A recent post covered the Montreal Olympics.

Yes. The next update will be covering the 1976 election, and I'm looking forward to it a lot.

Ah gotcha -- well I'l be sure to tune in for that.

 

[Brainbin]

(And more ) And only a touch behind schedule. Party!!!

Looking back at my previous milestones, I did gain 50,000 views in a little over a month - I really couldn't guess why, but I won't look a gift horse in the mouth!

That's about right as I recall it. Whitfield has Kirk one of the youngest Captains in the Fleet, & his OTL backstory has him getting a fast promotion when his old CO is killed. (Can't recall the name or episode offhand...)

He was serving as navigator (with the rank of Lieutenant) aboard the USS Farragut, when his Captain (Garrovick) was killed. However, the (unnamed) First Officer survived, and it was presumably he who was field-promoted to Captain. This was detailed in the episode "Obsession", in which Kirk explains all of this to the son of his former CO.

Then memory, fortunately, fails me.

One more hint, then: it was a trilogy of films.

Even Stan Lee wouldn't have stooped that low.

Face front, true believer!

That and Urban's performance is probably the problem - Quinto's performance may be good, but he's up against Urban's extremely good performance and the real Spock, so he comes up lacking in comparison.

That may well be it. In fact, I actually found Quinto to be one of the least impressive, and surely it was because Nimoy was stealing his thunder.

If I had to rank all seven of them, it would be probably be in the order Urban (superlative), Yelchin (excellent), Pegg (funny and boisterous), Pine (charming and cocksure, if punkish), Saldana (overly sassy and standoffish), Cho (dull as dirt), Quinto (overshadowed by awesome). How they behave in the coming film should prove significant.

They had all sorts of ideas about how to indicate Rimmer was a hologram, all of which as you say proved too expensive. I have to wonder if "Put a great big H on his forehead" started out as a sarcastic suggestion

You know what, that honestly would not surprise me in the least.

Intriguing !

Thank you, I do try

It's an SF show in its own right, as well as being a parody of one. That means it's got to have allegory, clunky message shows and fan-anger about remastering.

It's something I've always noticed about science-fiction parodies - Galaxy Quest and Futurama are both very guilty of this as well.

Yay, I can now lord it over my coworkers

One of these days I've got to start running a tally of how many of these things I've handed out! Maybe for the first anniversary...

There's a question I've meant to bring up, though it might be too late at this point:

How does Lucille's role change the emergence of Japanese anime in America?

Welcome aboard, Cataquack Warrior! It's never too late to ask a question, because I can always incorporate the material into my revisions once I'm done writing and am preparing to post to Finished Timelines. But one piece of advice first: nobody ever calls her "Lucille". She's either "Lucille Ball" (or "Ball" or "Miss Ball") or "Lucy", never anything in between. ("Lucille" is the name of B.B. King's guitar). And, of course, That Wacky Redhead, though only for the purposes of this timeline

I'm wondering if, as with the British alliance for Doctor Who, Desilu decides to take onboard some of Tezuka's works either as movies or TV series. I think Lucille, after taking a closer look, would be interested in the depth of human drama embedded in the stories. The challenge would be to tackle the traditional association of animation with children. I think that the solution might be to launch a pilot movie or special for Phoenix that has a mix between live action filming in "reality" and animation in an otherworld that the story steps into. I feel that such a mix between fantasy and reality would work well in a Phoenix-based story, assuming a new one was created for the production.

I really don't think that Desilu would be interested in Japanese productions. I remind you that the BBC approached Desilu, not the other way round. Also, Americans weren't nearly as warm to Japan in the mid-20th-century, for obvious reasons. Japanese commerce and industry only gradually chipped away at this resolve; cars came first, because they spoke directly to the pocketbook; video games followed because the American industry had imploded, leaving them with no competition; and then, finally, anime (and later manga) only broke through after the Japanese economy began to decline. I'm not enough of an expert to say whether or not there's a direct connection there, but that's one heck of an interesting coincidence if it isn't. Prior to that, Japanese media that broke through (Speed Racer, Akira) was considered kiddie or super-niche.

Also, Japan is (both literally and figuratively) rather insular, so they're less likely to be affected by the changes ITTL. Not to mention that, however tightly integrated Japanese media may be with the Anglosphere at present, it is still produced and presented in a foreign language, and is therefore technically outside the scope of this timeline. But you're far from the first person to ask after it - obviously there's some demand for a divergent evolution of anime. That would be a fine subject for a timeline of its own.

Yes. The next update will be covering the 1976 election, and I'm looking forward to it a lot.

Thank you, e of pi - though I know that you have an ulterior motive in awaiting its arrival

Ah gotcha -- well I'l be sure to tune in for that.

I look forward to seeing you there, and I'm glad you're still reading!

The 1976 election is going to consume my weekend, no doubt - that deadline of the 20th is fast approaching! But I hope to have it done as early as the 17th, fingers crossed!

 

[unclepatrick]

The 1976 election was the first time, I paid attention to a election. I was Ten years old and My father thought Jimmy Carter was a idiot. How ever my father did take to the time to explain the process and the Electoral College.
He also explained the family rule on Voting. If you don't vote, than you have no right to complain about Politic when the politicians do something stupid.

 

[Lizzie_Harrison]

He also explained the family rule on Voting. If you don't vote, than you have no right to complain about Politic when the politicians do something stupid.

Age permitting, that is a brilliant rule for discussing politics.