That Wacky Redhead

[phx1138]

BTW, since I was tired last night & forgot to say it, nice work, as usual. Whoever said consistency was the hobgoblin of little minds didn't know you.

"jumping the shark" will not enter the pop culture lexicon ITTL.

Hmmm... We're going to need a new one.

Will there be a *Soap ITTL?

If I haven't said so already, let me now: I most sincerely & fervently hope so! If I had to name the 5 best sitcoms ever, it would top my list. (I never liked "Lucy"... Or "The Honeymooners".) FYI, also on that list OTL: "Yes Minister" (at #2), "Barney Miller", "M*A*S*H" (mostly for the last 6 seasons, after they dumped Burns), & "WKRP", with a 6th place & honorable mention to "Rhythm & Blues" (the "black 'WKRP'"). And I'm not a big fan of sitcoms, so liking any of them is pretty strange.

Bill Haley & His Comets provided a new recording for Happy Days IOTL, and he does indeed sound much older than he did in the Blackboard Jungle version. My reasoning, and I'm sure that it would occur to those geniuses at Desilu, is: why not just use the original recording? It's cheaper, and it sounds more authentic anyway.

Who'd have thought a producer being cheap would actually make it better? (Need I say, I hated the "Happy Days" theme? Or that "RATC" was perfect as a theme?)

Technically, all Bill Haley & His Comets recordings of "Rock Around the Clock" are covers, as they did not originate the song

I did not know about that. Thx.

Remember, Rock Around the Clock is set in 1955, and American Graffiti was set in 1962. A lot of the cars would be anachronistic.

Oh, no, I picked the 3-window & the Deuce precisely because they wouldn't be out of place. The Deuce might need some tweaking of the wheels & exhaust, IDK; it's been too long since I've seen it. The Kid was built to look like a '58 project, so probably only details there, too. Might need a mockup flatty for beauty shots, if any, 'cause IDK if the engine was period-correct. Or swap in a 392.

Oh, and in case I'm not clear: you do need the engine used to match the exhaust note (something Lucas would probably mention), so the "runner" would need the "beauty shot engine" to be the same one. Or you'd need to record something else. (The flatty would sound very different....)

That said, I have no doubt that Eddie Milkis, or Bob Justman, or maybe even Gary Morton (he does love to spend That Wacky Redhead's money) would contact the studio about buying some of the props. They do have a direct line to George Lucas, after all, through his wife Marcia, who works for Desilu as an editor.

The cool factor you'd give the show would be astronomical. Especially when you consider Ala Kart made movie appearances in the background of shots--because the producers had no damn clue... Lucas would know.

And someone with a good sense for quality control! Milkis, Miller, and Marshall all desperately need someone to rein them in, as OTL has repeatedly shown.

Oh, I don't mean to criticize Justman at all. If I were making a series after 1965 (earlier, if he was in the biz), I'd want him on my team. His crazy sense of humor alone would do that.

And herein lies the rub: why was Fonzie changed IOTL? Well, there's my talk about Winkler being too cuddly to play someone so dark over a sustained period, but that's just a small part of it. As I've mentioned, IOTL, the first season of Happy Days (which premiered in mid-season!) reached #16 overall for 1973-74, a very respectable position. Fred Silverman, then still working for CBS, saw it as enough of a threat that he scheduled Good Times against it the following season, which was enough to knock it out of the Top 30. Thus, the show became susceptible to retooling in the following (third) season, and many changes were made. That won't happen ITTL, for the very simple reason that there is no Good Times - Mike Evans wasn't cast as Lionel Jefferson, and therefore he can't bring the idea to Norman Lear. Therefore, it's full steam ahead for the original vision of Rock Around the Clock, which remains a little edgier, and the comedy more subtle and naturalistic, than IOTL. And the ratings will continue to rise...

This ties into the points that I was making directly above.

And you've explained why they did something I'd sensed, but didn't know. Again, thx. Not only enjoyable, but educational. (My school days weren't this good.)

You've also made me realize something: counter-scheduling can do more than impact ratings... Which still does make me wonder why networks with low-rated shows continue to put them up against the competition's big guns... Can the demos for day & timeslot be that good when you're getting killed on numbers? (Unless you're the WB or somebody & a Top 50 show is your biggest hit. {Yes, Buffy, I mean you.})

 

[Orville_third]

BTW, no Henry Winkler will also butterfly away a noted 80's-90's institiution, on which he played a small acting role (a lawyer in an episode)...MacGuyver.

 

[e of pi]

BTW, no Henry Winkler will also butterfly away a noted 80's-90's institiution, on which he played a small acting role (a lawyer in an episode)...MacGuyver.

I suspect that the serious changes in studio staff and ongoing shows and network schedules will have more to do with potentially butterflying shows like A-Team or MacGyver than the precence or absence of a single cameo appearance. They can always find more cameos, but the actual series of events to create a show...

 

[NCW8]

Indeed, "jumping the shark" will not enter the pop culture lexicon ITTL. (The creator of the term appears to have been conceived just slightly after the POD, whose butterflies will take a while to spread; thus, he was born ITTL, but his entire upbringing will be different.) Fonzie, in the show's early years, was originally a darker, more enigmatic character as well, but I feel that Dolenz could "sell" that greaser attitude better than Winkler (who, again, is too likeable).

I missed the first couple of seasons of Happy Days, so only saw the lighter Fonzie.

Another subtle difference between the British and American television industries, I gather. That's one heck of an impressive pedigree for Comedy Playhouse

If you're interested, here's a list of the episodes. The show ran for fifteen seasons and resulted in fifteen series. Some of those series only lasted one season, but Last of the Summer Wine helps raise the average. Some were obviously better known at the time than they are now. Meet the Wife (starring Freddie Frinton and Thora Hird) was referred to in the lyrics of the Beatles song "Good Morning, Good Morning".

As an aside, you may have never heard of Freddie Frinton - he's not particularly well known in the UK either. However he is famous in Germany for a short programme called Dinner for One. This was recorded in 1963 by the German station NDR and since 1972 has been a staple part of New Years Eve viewing in Germany and several surrounding countries, plus Scandinavia. It was recorded in English (apart from a short introduction in German to explain the joke) and is broadcast without subtitles. If you pause to do the math (it has been shown by several stations - up to 19 - every year for forty years) it has a good claim to the record for the most repeated tv programme in the world.

Coming back on topic, I was wondering if you had butterflied The Liver Birds. IOTL, Pauline Collins left the show after the first season to join Upstairs, Downstairs. She was replaced by Nerys Hughs to give the classic line up for the series. Now ITTL, I expect that Behind the Green Baize Door, being a comedy, would still cast her as the maid Sarah. However, if someone else were chosen then she would stay on The Liver Birds.

Incidentally, for the Dr Who watchers out there, Pauline Collins was offered the chance to be a companion, but declined. She's also one of the few actors to have appeared in both new and classic Who.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Orville_third]

I suspect that the serious changes in studio staff and ongoing shows and network schedules will have more to do with potentially butterflying shows like A-Team or MacGyver than the precence or absence of a single cameo appearance. They can always find more cameos, but the actual series of events to create a show...

True- but he also played a bigger role which I didn't mention and I hoped someone would remember- Executive producer...

 

[NCW8]

I suspect that the serious changes in studio staff and ongoing shows and network schedules will have more to do with potentially butterflying shows like A-Team or MacGyver than the precence or absence of a single cameo appearance. They can always find more cameos, but the actual series of events to create a show...

Henry Winkler was also one of the Executive Producers of MacGyver. That might be harder to replace.

Edit: You beat me to it, Orville !

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[e_wraith]

<Goes to click next page, option isn't there...> Wait, what? Can it be I have caught up with this thread? Inconceivable! I've been reading it for over a month! I am not sure if this is a victory or just depressing that I now have to wait for updates like everyone else...

Anyway, instead of rehashing my specific thoughts on issues from ages ago, I will just say great commentary everyone, and thanks to Brainbin for a great read so far. Can't wait to read what happens next, even though now I actually have to!

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

<Goes to click next page, option isn't there...> Wait, what? Can it be I have caught up with this thread? Inconceivable! I've been reading it for over a month! I am not sure if this is a victory or just depressing that I now have to wait for updates like everyone else...

Anyway, instead of rehashing my specific thoughts on issues from ages ago, I will just say great commentary everyone, and thanks to Brainbin for a great read so far. Can't wait to read what happens next, even though now I actually have to!

Congrats, brainbin, a lurker decloaked just to complement your tl.

Ewraith welcome. Glad to see new faces... err voices... err typing fingers?

Anyway. Welcome.

 

[Pyro]

After watchng much of the 2012 continuation, I wonder what will happen with "Dallas" ITTL. Will somebody else shoot JR?

 

[Brainbin]

Thank you all again for your many replies!

A soldid update on TTLs Happy Days. A lot of rehash but some nice flourishes too.

Thank you, Glen. Yes, this update was primarily about presenting established information from a different perspective.

BTW, since I was tired last night & forgot to say it, nice work, as usual. Whoever said consistency was the hobgoblin of little minds didn't know you.

Thank you very much! Being a veteran TV enthusiast, I have always hated continuity problems, and do my best to avoid them.

If I haven't said so already, let me now: I most sincerely & fervently hope so! If I had to name the 5 best sitcoms ever, it would top my list.

Your request has been noted and logged.

(I never liked "Lucy"... Or "The Honeymooners".)

When it comes to sitcoms, that's rather like saying "I never liked air... or water"

"M*A*S*H" (mostly for the last 6 seasons, after they dumped Burns)

Latter-day M*A*S*H isn't really a sitcom; it's a dramedy in sitcom's clothing.

(Need I say, I hated the "Happy Days" theme? Or that "RATC" was perfect as a theme?)

I actually quite like "Happy Days". It was a game and surprisingly successful attempt to sound "period" (if a rather generic and second-rate specimen thereof). Besides, as already noted, the version of "Rock Around the Clock" featured in the show was sadly inferior, which made its replacement sound fresher, more lively.

The cool factor you'd give the show would be astronomical. Especially when you consider Ala Kart made movie appearances in the background of shots--because the producers had no damn clue... Lucas would know.

All right, fine, consider it done.

Oh, I don't mean to criticize Justman at all. If I were making a series after 1965 (earlier, if he was in the biz), I'd want him on my team. His crazy sense of humor alone would do that.

And he was loyal to a fault, which is truly admirable; even if the subject of his loyalty wasn't entirely deserving.

You've also made me realize something: counter-scheduling can do more than impact ratings... Which still does make me wonder why networks with low-rated shows continue to put them up against the competition's big guns... Can the demos for day & timeslot be that good when you're getting killed on numbers?

It depends on the era. Over time, demographics have become increasingly significant, as the importance of overall numbers continues to decline; today, total viewers are meaningless. To take a recent example: Harry's Law, the highest-rated show on NBC, was cancelled despite that, because its key 18-49 numbers were terrible. This trend started c. 1970, but it's accelerated rapidly: as recently as 2000 I would say that overall viewers still mattered at least as much as demographics (hence CBS, with their reputation as the "old people network" - they were trading on viewer totals, and even today, their audience skews older).

BTW, no Henry Winkler will also butterfly away a noted 80's-90's institiution, on which he played a small acting role (a lawyer in an episode)...MacGuyver.

Indeed so. Now I'll have to see if I can butterfly Matlock...

I suspect that the serious changes in studio staff and ongoing shows and network schedules will have more to do with potentially butterflying shows like A-Team or MacGyver than the precence or absence of a single cameo appearance. They can always find more cameos, but the actual series of events to create a show...

Hey, now, hold on just a minute! Who said anything about butterflying The A-Team?!

I missed the first couple of seasons of Happy Days, so only saw the lighter Fonzie.

There's also the matter of comparative exposure: 1 1/2 seasons for darker Fonzie vs. nine seasons for shark-jumping Fonzie

As an aside, you may have never heard of Freddie Frinton - he's not particularly well known in the UK either. However he is famous in Germany for a short programme called Dinner for One. This was recorded in 1963 by the German station NDR and since 1972 has been a staple part of New Years Eve viewing in Germany and several surrounding countries, plus Scandinavia. It was recorded in English (apart from a short introduction in German to explain the joke) and is broadcast without subtitles. If you pause to do the math (it has been shown by several stations - up to 19 - every year for forty years) it has a good claim to the record for the most repeated tv programme in the world.

I've heard about Dinner for One, actually - from (where else?) TV Tropes. The Germans Love David Hasselhoff pages are definitely some of the more intriguing reads on there. Speaking of which, since I do have at least one German reader, I would really like to ask: David Hasselhoff? Really?!

Coming back on topic, I was wondering if you had butterflied The Liver Birds. IOTL, Pauline Collins left the show after the first season to join Upstairs, Downstairs. She was replaced by Nerys Hughs to give the classic line up for the series. Now ITTL, I expect that Behind the Green Baize Door, being a comedy, would still cast her as the maid Sarah. However, if someone else were chosen then she would stay on The Liver Birds.

Having briefly investigated the situation IOTL, I can say that yes, Pauline Collins will remain on The Liver Birds ITTL.

<Goes to click next page, option isn't there...> Wait, what? Can it be I have caught up with this thread? Inconceivable! I've been reading it for over a month! I am not sure if this is a victory or just depressing that I now have to wait for updates like everyone else...

Welcome aboard, e_wraith! Congratulations for trawling through all 71 pages. It humbles me that so many people have had so many nice things to say about this timeline

Anyway, instead of rehashing my specific thoughts on issues from ages ago, I will just say great commentary everyone, and thanks to Brainbin for a great read so far. Can't wait to read what happens next, even though now I actually have to!

Well, thank you so much for bestowing your very first post upon my thread! I hope that it won't be your last, in this thread or elsewhere.

And I don't think you'll have to wait too long; I hope to have the next update ready before the Olympics are over, because... well, I have my reasons.

(And for the record, you're more than welcome to share your thoughts about past developments. Since you've read the thread, you'll know that plenty of other readers have.)

Congrats, brainbin, a lurker decloaked just to complement your tl.

I'm extremely flattered. And all the rest of you lurkers who read my thread are welcome to do the same!

After watchng much of the 2012 continuation, I wonder what will happen with "Dallas" ITTL. Will somebody else shoot JR?

Tell you what I'll do: I'll write the post leading up to the cliffhanger, and then make you wait eight months for the answer

 

[e of pi]

Hey, now, hold on just a minute! Who said anything about butterflying The A-Team?!

Me. Seriously, I was just thinking of major pop-culture impacts of that period, which were created OTL at a time when people who'd just been starting in the industry in the late 60s might be starting to make their mark, and thus might have the events that lead to their creation altered such that the shows are almost unrecognizable, or simply butterfly them entirely. A-Team and MacGyver were just the ones that stuck out to me. Guess it's the engineer's appreciation of a good kludge. Characters? We don't need no steenkin characters. If every show on the air was Junkyard Wars, I might not complain too much.

 

[NCW8]

I've heard about Dinner for One, actually - from (where else?) TV Tropes. The Germans Love David Hasselhoff pages are definitely some of the more intriguing reads on there. Speaking of which, since I do have at least one German reader, I would really like to ask: David Hasselhoff? Really?!

I'd put it down to being associated with Kit. You know how the Germans love their cars

Having briefly investigated the situation IOTL, I can say that yes, Pauline Collins will remain on The Liver Birds ITTL.

Now that is interesting.

Tell you what I'll do: I'll write the post leading up to the cliffhanger, and then make you wait eight months for the answer :

As long as you get rid of the "... And then she woke up and it was all just a dream" season.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Falkenburg]

At the very least The A-Team will be significantly altered ITTL.
With the ameliorated *Verboten* the Characters' back stories would surely be different?
And the shady government pursuit/persecution would almost certainly strike (some? most?) viewers as a tad outre.

Intriguing as ever, Brainbin. Cheers!

Falkenburg

 

[Orville_third]

Will Mary Tamm's career change ITTL? She was an excellent Romanadvoratrelundar, and she had a recurring role in Coronation Street. (Of course, she may not get a Doctor Who role, especially if her RADA classmate Louise Jameson doesn't get a role...)

I miss her.

 

[e of pi]

At the very least The A-Team will be significantly altered ITTL.
With the ameliorated *Verboten* the Characters' back stories would surely be different?
And the shady government pursuit/persecution would almost certainly strike (some? most?) viewers as a tad outre.

Yeah, the more I was thinking about this, the more that it struck me that A-Team might not "click" as a concept here--and the people developing it OTL would have been entering the business right at the time of the PoD, so the same people may not have had the same experiences, and they may not meet in a way to create the concept. Even if they do, it may not "click" as well ITTL.* The issues with MacGyver's creative team having different careers has already been pointed out--WInkler's not a huge runaway success in this TL, so the idea might not pop up at all. Anyway, if the A-Team is butterflied, I officially claim the title of the Man Who Killed the A-Team. Orville_third can take credit for killing Mac.

 

[phx1138]

I have always hated continuity problems, and do my best to avoid them.

Haven't seen one yet. (Who's your script girl?)

Your request has been noted and logged.

TY.

When it comes to sitcoms, that's rather like saying "I never liked air... or water"

Read my user title again.

Latter-day M*A*S*H isn't really a sitcom; it's a dramedy in sitcom's clothing.

Doesn't make it less good IMO. (I liked "St Elsewhere" for that tone, too.) Too many sitcoms rely on character stupidity for humor, when they don't have to.

I actually quite like "Happy Days". It was a game and surprisingly successful attempt to sound "period" (if a rather generic and second-rate specimen thereof).

The "period feel" was the best part IMO. Except for Fonz, I never found a character on it I really liked, & they bled out everything that made him interesting.

Besides, as already noted, the version of "Rock Around the Clock" featured in the show was sadly inferior, which made its replacement sound fresher, more lively.

With that, I disagree. I found "Happy Days" theme generic. (It did capture the '50s feel, tho.)

All right, fine, consider it done.

TYVM. Between Dolenz's Mash & this, you've now made "Rock Around the Clock" a much better show than "Happy Days". (And probably offered opportunities for customizers to showcase their work they'd never have gotten OTL.) It would probably be the only TV show to be written up in Hot Rod or Car Craft, or Street Rodder. (Which is)

Harry's Law, the highest-rated show on NBC, was cancelled despite that, because its key 18-49 numbers were terrible.

CBS, with their reputation as the "old people network" - they were trading on viewer totals, and even today, their audience skews older.

One day, I'm going to figure out why advertisers don't want to target a demo over 50 that has plenty of disposable income...

Indeed so. Now I'll have to see if I can butterfly Matlock...

Amen. (That said, the pilot made him much more interesting...more reluctant & irascible.)

I would really like to ask: David Hasselhoff? Really?!

Do you realize, he's eligible for entry into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? (Hell will officially have frozen over...)

 

[The Professor]

Do you realize, he's eligible for entry into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? (Hell will officially have frozen over...)

What??!!! Seriously? The Hoff?

 

[The Blue-Eyed Infidel]

One day, I'm going to figure out why advertisers don't want to target a demo over 50 that has plenty of disposable income...

I'm not in the industry (or even anywhere close) but my understanding is that advertisers have concluded that older viewers have locked in their preferences, so advertising targeted at them is less effective.

Not sure it's entirely correct, but I can see why they might think that.

TB-EI

 

[e_wraith]

Well, thank you so much for bestowing your very first post upon my thread! I hope that it won't be your last, in this thread or elsewhere.

Damn, didn't even occur to me that I was ruining my lurker credentials by posting. I have such a long tradition of lurking, too, message boards, usenet... All ruined by this timeline of yours!

And I don't think you'll have to wait too long; I hope to have the next update ready before the Olympics are over, because... well, I have my reasons.

Olympics fever! Actually, I truly have no idea if how the Olympics were viewed and covered in this time period. I guess tape delays were less of an issue with no Internet, at least.

(And for the record, you're more than welcome to share your thoughts about past developments. Since you've read the thread, you'll know that plenty of other readers have.)

I wouldn't even know where to start. Bravo for extending UFO, though it was before my time I caught much of it on Universal HD a few years ago, and it deserved at least another season. (Oh, I guess before that there were the X-Com computer games, inspired by UFO. ITTL they would never have been called X-Com at all, I guess, but UFO: Enemy Unknown in both the US and UK.) And you killed M*A*S*H, which presumably saves us from several thousand hours of Alan Alda moralizing... Nice. Though you also saved Jane Fonda's career... So definitely not a utopia. I'd be very interested to know how the space shuttle program came out, I know you mentioned smaller shuttles... As I recall you gave the HL-20 or one of the other lifting body test articles as an example. I guess that means no Max Faget straight wing shuttle, fully reusable or not. Still, probably better off than what we got, as amazing a piece of technology it was. No Nixon causes big science in the Vannevar Bush tradition to lose an ally, but perhaps the early end to the war and the lack of Watergate create an atmosphere where everything "government" is not immediately thought of as evil. I would also say there's still a chance for the A-Team, all you need is a botched up military situation, say like rescuing hostages in Iran, that goes terribly, terribly wrong and the government trying to hide it in some manner by blaming innocent commandos and their pilot. There's always opportunities for such things, but who knows, perhaps the Shah has greater longevity ITTL.

Okay, too much more I could say, but enough for now. (Canada keeping a carrier is a very interesting thing, too, since it is something that might very well have impacted my personal career much later on. Even though I am not Canadian.)

Anyway, keep up the good work, I look forward to the next update!

 

[unclepatrick]

BTW, no Henry Winkler will also butterfly away a noted 80's-90's institiution, on which he played a small acting role (a lawyer in an episode)...MacGuyver.

Yes but instead we got the Doc Savage TV show.