Please tell me that George Cole plays the butler in Behind the Green Baize Door . Apparently IOTL he was considered for the role of Hudson in Upstairs, Downstairs.
Cheers,
Nigel.
That Wacky Redhead
- Thread starter Brainbin
- Start date
Please tell me that George Cole plays the butler in Behind the Green Baize Door . Apparently IOTL he was considered for the role of Hudson in Upstairs, Downstairs.
Cheers,
Nigel.
I certainly hope so.
But it'd probably end up becoming Spaceship Ark or something
Indeed. And what would be a better title for it than "Enterprising Redhead" I wonder?...
Good update BB, keep 'em coming!
More good work, as usual.
I take it this limits the show to the squad & leaves off the wife? Nitpick, tho: wouldn't it be "Lieutenant Miller", since he's only running the squad, & not the whole precinct? (That bugged me, retrospectively, about the OTL show.)
or more exposure), gets it wrong--& always the same way.
)
FYI, the Canadian & American pronunciations, generally, are "older" than the native Briton ones: that is, they've changed less. (Not the slightest clue why...but apparently, the further from the home country, the less changed the language is.)
I'd also say there's some dialect shared with Prairie as far away as Arizona & New Mexico & (perhaps) as far west as the Rockies. Recall "McCloud": the New Yorkers never understood "There y'go.", but here, it was clear as day.
Does the Web mean all English-speakers will be able to be?
It's a great language, ain't it? It does make me wonder, tho: why does English do that, & other languages don't? Is that a cultural trait of native speakers?
And an unpaid staff position?Brainbin said:
Brainbin said:
I take it this limits the show to the squad & leaves off the wife? Nitpick, tho: wouldn't it be "Lieutenant Miller", since he's only running the squad, & not the whole precinct? (That bugged me, retrospectively, about the OTL show.)Does that get the credit for redefining cop shows? As I recall, it changed the way cop shows were done (or so it was said at the time) & helped make "Hill Street" possible.Brainbin said:
I thought that might be it. Thx.LordInsane said:
That may explain why Brits can't spot a phony American accent. Every Brit actor I've ever heard, except Hugh Laurie (who has an excellent ear, it seems,Thande said:
or more exposure), gets it wrong--& always the same way.Thande said:
I think it's also a matter of exposure, to an extent. If you've never heard it, how do you recognize it? I also think there's a personal ability involved. Some people are good at noticing. (Is it vain to say I'm one of them?Thande said:
)FYI, the Canadian & American pronunciations, generally, are "older" than the native Briton ones: that is, they've changed less. (Not the slightest clue why...but apparently, the further from the home country, the less changed the language is.)
I'd say "Prairie", 'cause it's not just "rural".The Blue-Eyed Infidel said:
I've heard that describe the distinction between Canadian & American, but I've never been able to distinguish it, myself.The Blue-Eyed Infidel said:
I'd agree. I noticed the Texan accents of some of the characters in "Dallas", & they'd have stood out here. (That was supposedly East Texas.) We also had visitors once from Fort Worth, & I never noticed any accent (tho I should say, I was pretty young then, but I've been fascinated with voices for years). Don't recall noticing any from the local newscasters from North Dakota (when we used to get them on cable), but that could've been a bit washed out....The Blue-Eyed Infidel said:
I'd also say there's some dialect shared with Prairie as far away as Arizona & New Mexico & (perhaps) as far west as the Rockies. Recall "McCloud": the New Yorkers never understood "There y'go.", but here, it was clear as day.
I'd think that's true. Language changes over time, so it's likely the "local" dialect changes more rapidly than the "distant", & isolated areas will tend to differ more thanks to less interchange. I wonder: does the Web mean we get a more standard English, or a more varied one? As a Canadian, I feel a bit "trilingual": reasonably fluent in American & British English, too.Thande said:
Does the Web mean all English-speakers will be able to be?naraht said:
It's a great language, ain't it? It does make me wonder, tho: why does English do that, & other languages don't? Is that a cultural trait of native speakers?Given the origin, I'd imagine not much: strong resemblance to "ST:V" or Exodus. Probably not "voyage home", tho (which was a major reason I disliked OTL "BG" so much).Thande said:
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Orville_third
Banned
Hmmmm...will Captain Miller encounter a time traveller with a long striped scarf, as he did OTL? (Or could the alternate Doctor #4 have a different prop?)
Glen
Moderator
I don't think he was, strictly speaking, The Doctor, tho he may have been meant as a wink at it. ("The Arthur Dietrich?") And was it tin futures?
I know but wouldstill like to see that bit.
Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful commentary, both in response to my latest update and on the thread in general! I apologize for my delay in getting back to all 34 of these lovely posts, but I did want to make sure that everyone had spoken their piece. And now, without further delay, my responses:
)
(Now ask an American to name everyone on our money )
Yes, Adama's Ark is the (working!) title for what IOTL became Battlestar Galactica, a name chosen only because the success of Star Wars (in addition to the lasting appeal of Star Trek) convinced executives that it had to have the word "star" somewhere in the title. The core story - Exodus retold in deep space, with added Mormon trappings - will remain unchanged, but there are a number of variables to take into account (some of which you've already touched upon) that we'll explore when I make my inevitable update on the subject. The title is only the first, and the most obvious, of these.
I'm not sure when my next update will be ready, but I hope to have it written sooner, rather than later. Thank you all for your patience and understanding
And now I've added it to the main Wiki page (which, someday, I will also populate with information more relevant to the facts and figures of TTLYou are far too kind.
)The elder of these two is indeed Darth Rogers. The younger is more like Luke, if he had joined his father and ruled the... Canadian telecommunications sector.
How fortunate, then, that we have an opportunity to make a difference at the precise point in which Scandinavian culture is undergoing a paradigm shift!
Understood. We'll have to see if the Commonwealth Trade Agreement might have some cultural effects that could work to increase Canadian (or Australasian!) influence.LordInsane said:
Whose Line itself is a terrific example of this cultural difference, because it's quite remarkable how two shows with an identical premise, similar presentation and episode structure, most of the same games, and many of the same principals, could be so different from one another. And for the official record, to spur the inevitable debate on the subject: I prefer the American version, simply because it's a lot funnier to me, in terms of laughs per minute.
The Weakest Link was one of many imitators of Millionaire to reach American shores in the early 2000s, and on that score it was actually quite successful: Robinson definitely became a major selling point, and anticipated the Mean Brit craze launched by Simon Cowell a couple of years later; "You are the Weakest Link. Goodbye" became a legitimate pop culture catch phrase; and the show managed to last for a couple of seasons, not that bad considering that it was completely overwhelmed by the subsequent reality game show fad (which, in turn, sadly burgeoned into a whole genre of television). It wasn't a total write-off, IMHO.Thande said:
You almost certainly saw the American syndicated version, hosted by Meredith Vieira since 2002. The Canadian Edition (consisting of only two specials), was hosted by Pamela Wallin, and aired only once, in September of 2000 (by which time the parent series was already undergoing a steep decline in the USA).Thande said:
I don't mind them in the least! I very much appreciate them, in fact; because popular culture is built on themThande said:
Washington, Lincoln, Hamilton, Jackson, Grant, and Franklin. And I didn't even have to look them upConceptually, I liked it, but the execution was awful. It also struck me a lot of the questions were very U.S. culture-specific. (Bad enough when "Jeopardy!" asks about who's on U.S. money, like nobody in Canada watches...
(Now ask an American to name everyone on our money )It's the same reasoning that brought us Canadian Idol, Canada's Next Top Model, Canada's Got Talent, So You Think You Can Dance Canada, Top Chef Canada...phx1138 said:That really had me wondering what they were thinking.
The CBC made the switch when they were riding high with their original programming (such as Road to Avonlea, and the early years of This Hour Has 22 Minutes), and shortly before federal budget cutbacks made them realize - too late - that the good times could not last. And now there's no turning back...phx1138 said:I will bow to your superior knowledge.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves; we have a few other projects to get through firstphx1138 said:If you can work a miracle & keep it on the air, you will have my undying admiration. (Not that you don't now.
If he could read my mind, well, what a tale my thoughts would tellphx1138 said:I invite you to take that up with Mr Lightfoot, not with me.
Thank you, Nigel
Very true - and it's also worth noting that smaller nations who neighbour larger, more influential countries with the same language and/or cultural heritage tend to be far more defensive about their distinctiveness. There are plenty of examples within the Anglosphere, but also beyond it - look at Austria, for instance.
Welcome aboard, naraht! That's an interesting comparison, though I'm not sure I entirely agreeRemember, the Canadian accent is Inverse Brooklynese. Brooklynese starts everything with "Aay" and the Canadians end everything with it.
Thank you, Thande
Yes, Adama's Ark is the (working!) title for what IOTL became Battlestar Galactica, a name chosen only because the success of Star Wars (in addition to the lasting appeal of Star Trek) convinced executives that it had to have the word "star" somewhere in the title. The core story - Exodus retold in deep space, with added Mormon trappings - will remain unchanged, but there are a number of variables to take into account (some of which you've already touched upon) that we'll explore when I make my inevitable update on the subject. The title is only the first, and the most obvious, of these.Thank you! I'm quite surprised that it didn't occur to anyone IOTL; but with That Wacky Redhead having sold her studio, there wasn't nearly as strong a sense of continuity there. The advantage of a 25th anniversary show, as opposed to the 50th of OTL, is that three of the four principals are still alive and willing to reminisce.
Very well, I'll cast Cole - whom I personally know from his turn as Major-General Stanley - in that role. His rather gruesome death will also be butterflied away ITTL.
I have no idea. I'm open to suggestions, people!Indeed. And what would be a better title for it than "Enterprising Redhead" I wonder?...
Thank you, ProfessorThe Professor said:
Thank you, phx!More good work, as usual.
You'll note that all three of his fellow top-level executives, including his wife, don't seem to think much of him (which is in keeping with OTL).phx1138 said:And an unpaid staff position?
As IOTL, not at first; but eventually they'll strike the right balance.phx1138 said:
Miller was in charge of the whole precinct. Apparently, he was just really good at running it from his office in the squad room.phx1138 said:
Well, Police Story did win quite a number of Emmys IOTL, dwarfed only by (surprise, surprise) Hill Street Blues itself in that regard.phx1138 said:
Yes, I decided that a more successful Star Trek wouldn't quite be enough for Larson's brainchild to be given a chance, especially considering what he would be asking for it. But in combination with the success of Moonraker, it would be just enough for one network to give it a chance, especially when NBC has a wide-open berth for it (given the end of Doctor Who - and The Bill Cosby Show, which follows it) on Monday nights at 8:00, their home for science-fiction programming since 1968.Ah, I see the proto-BSG has reached fruition! Awesome!
It has. Sherman Hemsley retains the role of George Jefferson, as Lear created it explicitly for him (though he could not assume it immediately, as he was committed to Purlie at the time; hence the creation of his brother Henry, who suddenly disappeared once George finally came into the picture). Most of the other roles are differently cast, alas.vultan said:
Thank you, vultanvultan said:Good stuff, Brainbin, and can't wait for more!
Absolutely not; in the USA ITTL, The Doctor is the Third Doctor as opposed to the Fourth, so any reference would be to him instead.
Having Moonraker be the Star Wars of TTL, and the best Bond film since the 1960s, appeals to my sense of irony
I'm not sure when my next update will be ready, but I hope to have it written sooner, rather than later. Thank you all for your patience and understanding
Thande
Donor
I agree it's a very good example of cultural dissonance. They briefly showed the American version over here and it flopped hard, with everyone (including me at the time) complaining that the Americans had ruined yet another of our concepts with their adaptation. It wasn't until years later I came back to it via the internet and found out how funny the US version was: it's because of that same cultural dissonance, most Britons can't get past the fact that the audience scream and yell as soon as anyone gets up off their chairs, it makes them sound like demented lunatics to our ear and casts a bit of a shadow over the whole proceedings. But if you can get past that, then you realise how brilliant the humour can be. Where it benefits over the British version is, strangely, the more limited cast--it means that they gain more experience working together and eventually everyone develops the same rapport that Colin and Ryan already had from their longstanding double act. And from that, you can have things like Party Quirks and Let's Make A Date where the quirk is much, much more complex than it was in the UK version, and yet still have a good chance of the players being able to identify it, just because they know each other so much better.
I still like the British version a lot of course, but it's a different kind of humour. A decent comparison is to I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue vs. Just A Minute, two of our premier radio comedies. Just A Minute changes its lineup every episode, though there are many recurring players, while Clue formerly kept the same lineup every episode, then after one of the regulars sadly died just switch out that one seat, resulting in the same sort of dynamic as in US Whose Line. The hosting styles of the hosts also reflect the two incarnations of Whose Line, but this time the other way around: Just A Minute has the overly bright and cheerful Nicholas Parsons who the players constantly rib about his background and make outrageous insinuations about, like Drew Carey on US Whose Line, while Clue had Humphrey Lyttelton till his death and now has Jack Dee, both of whom have the schtick of acting miserable and reluctant about the whole affair and being contemptuous of the players, like Clive Anderson on UK Whose Line.
I suppose the upshot is not to be too judgemental about these things: I think our media is too quick to assume American adaptations always ruin everything. One slightly strange example of this is, when they briefly imported US Whose Line as mentioned above, I remember the TV guide claimed disparagingly that they had Americanised it by having separate teams with team captains who actually competed for points that meant something, because Americans have devil-take-the-hindmost competition as their 'hat' so much that they can't grasp the concept of the points not mattering. Of course, anyone who's actually watched US Whose Line knows that all of that is bollocks and in fact Drew Carey makes a signature line out of saying that the points don't matter. So I think sometimes we rush to judgement about these things and perhaps lose out on some gems that way.
That's great ! In the UK, he's probably best known as Arthur Daley. I can see him being something of a straight-man in Behind the Green Baize Door, acting as a foil for the two maids.
I have no idea. I'm open to suggestions, people!
The Redhead and the Redshirts ? But I think that Enterprising Redhead is better.
For a long period (in the seventies and eigthies), Just a Minute did have a pretty fixed line up of Clement Freud, Peter Jones, Derek Nimmo and Kenneth Williams. Admittedly, it didn't start with that line-up and there have always been variations - Nicholas Parsons has appeared on the panel on a couple of occasions with some-one else taking over as chariman.
Also, the panel of ISIHAC had a different line-up for the first couple of seasons, being made up of the cast of I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again. The regular panel formed in 1974 when Willie Rushton replaced Bill Odie.
I think that the difference is more one of personal style between the two hosts. Nicholas Parsons has a genuine enthusiasm for the show (he's been on every episode for 45 years now), while (as you say) Humph acted as though he was forced to be there: "My, oh My ! Do we have a show for you tonight ! ... I'm sorry, I misread that - Why, Oh Why do we have a show for you tonight ?". The panel of Just a Minute act more competitively than ISIHAC - the arguments about the rules is part of the comedy of the show and they actually keep track of the scores. To quote Humph again: "It's just occurred to me that Samantha hasn't given us the score... since 1981". In ISIHAC, the only round where the panel really argues about the rules is "Mornington Crescent", where such arguments are the point of the game.
There's something of a one-way rivalry between the shows as well, with ISIHAC having a game called "Just a Minim", where the panalists have to sing a song without Repetition, Deviation, Hesitation or Repetition - with the songs such as "She'll be Coming Round the Mountain" where the lyrics are repetitive anyway.
Cheers,
Nigel.
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And that makes the Emperor...?Brainbin said:
Hell, I can't even do that.Brainbin said:Washington, Lincoln, Hamilton, Jackson, Grant, and Franklin. And I didn't even have to look them up
(Let's see... The Queen, The Queen... Bluenose...)You suppose CanCon has something to do with it...?Brainbin said:
I wouldn't be the least surprised.Sad... We compromised the idea of a national broadcaster, & we've got way too many people who'd kill off CBC entire.Brainbin said:
Just a vote in favor, when you're ready.Brainbin said:Let's not get ahead of ourselves; we have a few other projects to get through first
Fortunately nobody here can. This is a G-rated thread.Brainbin said:If he could read my mind, well, what a tale my thoughts would tell
Brainbin said:
Nothing like a happy marriage.Suits.Brainbin said:
I never got that sense... And given the typical NYPD precinct captain's office wasn't in the squad...Brainbin said:
Ah, well.No, not a surprise, nor that it won awards.Brainbin said:
I'm curious to see just how changed it is. Especially to know if I'd have like TTL's version better.Brainbin said:
Mine, too.Brainbin said:Having Moonraker be the Star Wars of TTL, and the best Bond film since the 1960s, appeals to my sense of irony
Glen
Moderator
In my defense, I was preoccupied when I was trying to dredge that up from memory, so please forgive my faux pas.