That Wacky Redhead

[The Blue-Eyed Infidel]

Ted Turner? (Donald Trump doesn't run a cable company...)

He may be referring to Ted Rogers...

I think I'd add "Little Mosque" to that list. I have a feeling some of the suppression has to do with where the money is coming from & the belief a Canadian setting won't sell as well in the U.S. (Think "Prom Night"...) As said above, I don't think it matters, if it's good. (IDK if, say, North of 60" would have done well in the U.S., but that's because there'd be less ready identification for the setup; in Arizona, New Mexico, or Oklahoma, with more Reserves, maybe.)

I could never get into Little Mosque; the sneering contempt the creators had for the Prairies - at least, in the portions I watched - turned me off almost immediately.

IDK about reducing the U.S. content, but as a first cut, it would seem to increase CanCon from OTL's (IIRC) 25% to 40%. The question of the cable fees leading to a bidding war needs addressing IMO; a cap on the number of U.S. programs won't do that. A requirement that a given fraction of all monies paid by cable companies go to Canadian production? If it was, the overall quality is bound to go up, & the demand for U.S. shows might just go down. (It should also help export sales.)

Wikipedia (insert disclaimer here) says for TV, 60% overall / 50% primetime CanCon.

I'm seeing a contradiction & probably misunderstanding. 5% may be Brit or CanCon, but up to 35% may be one source: so, 35% could be Brit? Or only 5? Or 5 counting as CanCon, plus 30? Or plus 35?

I was thinking option 1/3 (i.e. allowing 5% of Brit/Aussie/Kiwi to count as CanCon, and up to 35% permitted overall, if the station / network chose); certainly not option 2, and probably not 4 (the justification is to reduce cultural dominance from any single source, after all).

Maybe not. France could be a source. (French-made films have been pretty common on Radio-Canada.) Perhaps Italy & Spain, too; more than a few films were dubbed for broadcast here.

But France is not part of the ITTL Commonwealth FTA, which is the justification for my proposals for reducing CanCon.

TB-EI

 

[Electric Monk]

Skydome fuck yeah!

(God I want my computer back so I can post properly. I'll also agree that, at least CBC-Montreal, an English language station, did tons of late night French films so any CanCon regulations will certainly be rather nice to French programming.)

(Also Brainbin at some point I'll finish replying to your email )

 

[phx1138]

Hm, I'm not sure how things were in the 70s, but I am fairly confident the Swedish dubbing situation was not overly different from that of the 90s. Which means you do need to worry about dubbed cop shows (since, a cop show presumably not being targeted at children, it will be subtitled, not dubbed), but a show that is very open about its origins is not at all a problem.

I didn't mean to limit to Sweden. Nor do I distinguish between dubbing & subtitling, in that context: it's a simple fix, as opposed to something like "Wheel of Fortune" you can't just subtitle/dub.

 

[NCW8]

I would like my readers Down Under to weigh in on the subject as well, as my knowledge of Australian programming is not as thorough as I would like beyond the cliche: frothy soaps; shows with young people on the beach in various states of undress; quirky kiddie shows; and, of course, Australianised versions of British and American "reality" programming

"What's that you said, Skippy ? You can't remember any quirky Australian kiddie shows ?"

It was quite popular in its day, yes. Covering precisely why is a somewhat complicated question. I think part of it was the novelty: most British people don't really know anything about Canada and people were attracted to the simplified idea that show put forward that Canada is "Diet America", the USA with all the nasty stuff taken out, all the jokes about Canadians being ultra-polite and good-natured and so on, and the contrast with the overly-gritty version of Chicago. I have heard it claimed (mostly by British people) that that show ripped off Terry Pratchett's "Guards! Guards!" which has the similar plot of squeaky-clean naive policeman transposed to the gritty city, but I find that questionable considering it's an old plot archetype.

Especially in his earlier books, Pratchett played with various Genres and their tropes as well as including references to books, films and tv series. As you say, Carrot's first appearance in "Guards! Guards!" was a play on the achetype of the Innocent arriving in the Big City. In later books, Carrot's character became more complex and Pratchett threw in some references to Benton Frazer. It's very easy to read that backwards and say that Frazer was based on Carrot.

The meter is indeed off, it's because on ISIHAC they have to improvise limericks on the spur of the moment, with the host providing the first line and then the four players each providing a line in turn. So they sometimes don't quite fit the meter, but it's a good source of humour.

The contestants would also try and come up with lines so that the obvious rhymes were words that are normally only heard on Radio 4 when James Naughtie introduces Jeremy Hunt.

I didn't mean to limit to Sweden. Nor do I distinguish between dubbing & subtitling, in that context: it's a simple fix, as opposed to something like "Wheel of Fortune" you can't just subtitle/dub.

I think that it's more than just a dubbing problem. In the seventies, the UK would also import gameshow formats from the US rather than the gameshows themselves.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Brainbin]

First things first: Thank you all for 90,000 views! This timeline's popularity continues to astound me, but I'm willing to see it through! But first...

It was quite popular in its day, yes. Covering precisely why is a somewhat complicated question.

An excellent analysis, though I would also add that both Due South and Northern Exposure are very "quirky", vaguely surrealistic shows - genres that tend to mesh very well with British comedy, in my experience. Now, many Canadian shows tend to be deliberately quirky, but it often comes off as incredibly forced; Due South had just the right level of whimsy to pull it off (I think because it embraced its ludicrousness while at the same time utterly refusing to engage in tedious post-modernism).

The meter is indeed off, it's because on ISIHAC they have to improvise limericks on the spur of the moment, with the host providing the first line and then the four players each providing a line in turn. So they sometimes don't quite fit the meter, but it's a good source of humour. Some of them are quite zeitgeist-y.

I like the West German limerick. (Probably butterflied away ITTL, given Britain's different economic orientation, though I'm sure you can live with that )

Nobody is quite sure why they're named after the city in Ireland or their precise origins...they were popularised over here by Edward Lear (of "The Owl and the Pussycat", etc.) but his version usually had the last line being almost the same as the first rather than it being the punchline.

It was a video game, of all things, that introduced me to the joy of limericks (asexual ones, of course). Since we've discussed the macabre in this thread before, I will link to the video of kooky graveyard epitaphs, all being read aloud. Those of you who admire vintage PC games (as well you should) might get an additional kick out of this.

used to be a High School Science teacher , I would spend two week in each of my classes to debunk much of the Pheudoscience, rthat my kid believed in. I was shocked by the number of Kids who would believe in Ancient Astronauts, UFO and even that we never landed on the moon.

Reminds me of when that sensationalistic "expose" on the Moon Landings came out on TV about a decade ago. I was still in school at the time, and all of my fellow students who saw it had become convinced that the Moon Landings were a hoax. I can't say that I saw this marvel of investigative reporting myself, but I never once doubted that we made it to the Moon. (And not just for the valid scientific reasons. Why would the Soviets not dispute the Moon Landings, when they had everything to gain from doing so?)

Actually, let me revise and extend; in order to get things actually cross-fertilizing, instead of just having the UK as a second source of imported programs, perhaps the following might be better:

I'll have to find the perfect balance. And I'll have to see if I can find schedules for the Canadian networks in the 1970s (as Wikipedia is way behind on them as opposed to the American schedules, which are complete and go all the way back to the 1940s). I'm particularly interested in what the CBC schedule looked like before they went all-CanCon (which was far enough back that I was too young at the time to remember). This will be a key focus of the Commonwealth update.

Slightly more complicated, but guaranteed set-asides for each one would encourage reciprocity among the partners. Of course, this is going to make French-language programming more Can-Con heavy, as it is unlikely that the UK, Australia, or New Zealand will be producing any.

Granting special status to French-language programming (and not just those from France) is another fast and easy way to appease the Francophone populace without sacrificing English-language primacy. Productions from la Francophonie would probably be granted the same exemptions as those from the Commonwealth.

I'll come out as a fan of Due South (But only the earlier series with the 'proper' Ray).
I liked the dynamic between the characters. It was quirky good-natured fun, by and large. What wasn't to like?

Indeed. It's not a show I ever actively sought out (too young during its original run, and reruns are, sadly, pretty hard to come by even in this, its home and native land), but I would never turn it off if it ever did come on. If that is to Canada what Crocodile Dundee is to Australia, I think we did very well for ourselves

Diefenbaker certainly helped, although I could have done without Leslie Nielsen.

In my experience, there are only two roles in Leslie Nielsen's later career that are worth watching: Dr. Rumack, and Sgt. Frank Drebin, Det. Lt. Police Squad! I credit him all the success in the world for revitalizing his career, but he really needed to be reined in by strong writing and direction (like so many actors, before and since).

I'll also come out as being aware of Nantucket because of Billy Joel (Downeaster Alexa, anyone?).

How many people have learned about the Northeastern United States solely because of this man? ("Scenes From an Italian Restaurant", anyone?)

Now of course I have to come up with a Limerick for this TL. Hmm.

A No-Prize for Participation to each and every one of you that does!

Ted Turner? (Donald Trump doesn't run a cable company...)

I'm going to assume that you're playing dumb, since my other Canadian readers got it right away

I'd have no problem exporting a Canadian-made twist on "NYPD Blue" or "Quincy" with no changes. Nor with exporting "Beachcombers" (tho I wince at the quality & the repetitiveness...).

As you well know, many CanCon shows were (and are) simply "responses" to similar American programming, so such a scenario is very likely. That said, the most successful Canadian exports tend to be more identifiably Canadian (both Corner Gas and Due South are the defining examples, along with The Beachcombers).

Maybe. I get the sense it's because of what they emphasize. "Due South" was an inversion, but it still played into the cliche...

I don't know. Self-deprecating humour is a valued Canadian (and, fittingly, Commonwealth) trait. It goes back to Stephen Leacock, if not further.

I think I'd add "Little Mosque" to that list.

I wouldn't. It's far more typical, smug, Central Canadian paternalism. (And I say this as a Central Canadian). Not to mention it's your standard "subversive", "edgy" show that tries to be "controversial" while also being trite and unfunny. Corner Gas and Red Green knew exactly what they were trying to be, and succeeded, on their own terms.

As said above, I don't think it matters, if it's good. (IDK if, say, North of 60" would have done well in the U.S., but that's because there'd be less ready identification for the setup; in Arizona, New Mexico, or Oklahoma, with more Reserves, maybe.)

Again, I was too young to appreciate North of 60 in its time, although I recall it being rather downbeat and weighty. I'm not sure that would sell elsewhere.

I also agree with Gordon Lightfoot: acts successful in the U.S. & up for Grammys don't deserve Junos.

I wholeheartedly disagree with that logic, which implies that Canadian talent is somehow in an inferior league (literally!) to American talent.

Hm, I'm not sure how things were in the 70s, but I am fairly confident the Swedish dubbing situation was not overly different from that of the 90s. Which means you do need to worry about dubbed cop shows (since, a cop show presumably not being targeted at children, it will be subtitled, not dubbed), but a show that is very open about its origins is not at all a problem.

Perhaps you can confirm something for me, LordInsane. Because in my experiences, Scandinavians (including Finns, for the purposes of this discussion) tend to be very Anglophilic (linguistically, if not culturally). And of all the countries in the Anglosphere, the one that most strongly resembles Scandinavia is, of course, Canada. If anything, I think Scandinavians might be more willing to embrace Canadian offerings (especially those that emphasize our similarities). Say, a show about an amateur or youth hockey team, and their trials and tribulations. I imagine that would go over very well there (along with some other ideas I have percolating).

He may be referring to Ted Rogers...

Indeed, I was referring to the late Darth Rogers. Every time something is renamed after him, this theme plays in my head.

I could never get into Little Mosque; the sneering contempt the creators had for the Prairies - at least, in the portions I watched - turned me off almost immediately.

Granted, I'm not from the West, but I might be able to get past that if the jokes weren't so lame and predictable. If you're going to push the envelope, you've got to follow through. But what we have at the end of the day is a show that's willing to "shock" and "offend" everyone without actually making any of them laugh.

Skydome fuck yeah!

I wouldn't use that precise language, but otherwise I completely agree

God I want my computer back so I can post properly.

Thanks for finding the time to post, all the same We're all pulling for you to finally get your hands on a computer. Or at least I am!

I'll also agree that, at least CBC-Montreal, an English language station, did tons of late night French films so any CanCon regulations will certainly be rather nice to French programming.

You've all convinced me. The CanCon policy ITTL is going to be incredibly convoluted, but that fits Canadian laws and regulations so much better anyway!

(Also Brainbin at some point I'll finish replying to your email )

Thanks for the reassurance I look forward to reading it. (I'm sorry about all my rambling, but you're just so good at responding point-by-point )

In later books, Carrot's character became more complex and Pratchett threw in some references to Benton Fraser. It's very easy to read that backwards and say that Fraser was based on Carrot.

Now isn't that interesting...

I think that it's more than just a dubbing problem. In the seventies, the UK would also import gameshow formats from the US rather than the gameshows themselves.

Including Family Fortunes, the British version of Family Feud (as they could not use the word "feud", IIRC, because it had negative historical connotations).

And now, for the infobox most pertinent to the development of this timeline:

 

[Thande]

Including Family Fortunes, the British version of Family Feud (as they could not use the word "feud", IIRC, because it had negative historical connotations).

Not so much "couldn't" use it, but it would have sent the wrong message, i.e. people would be tuning in expecting something more violent like two family teams taking part in Gladiators-type stunts or something.

I remember being quite surprised when I found out that Family Fortunes is a remake of an American gameshow, because usually when they do that it doesn't work out that well. They remade Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune over here, for example, but they were never more than a minor part of the fabric of gameshow culture rather than becoming national institutions as they are in the USA. I think the difference may be, as indicated by the title change, they paid more attention to fiddling with the format of Family Fortunes to make it fit British sensibilities better.

I seem to recall hearing that we may be returning the favour because there is talk of an American remake of our recent gameshow Pointless, which takes the concept of Family Fortunes and flips it: they asked 100 people "name something that is X" in 100 seconds and you have to guess an answer which is correct, but the least number of the 100 people named--and if you get a 'pointless' answer which none of them said, £250 is added to the jackpot. That programme already feels half American anyway because they use an incongruous number of questions themed around US geography--probably because it's easy to find data on.

 

[NCW8]

Not so much "couldn't" use it, but it would have sent the wrong message, i.e. people would be tuning in expecting something more violent like two family teams taking part in Gladiators-type stunts or something.

I remember being quite surprised when I found out that Family Fortunes is a remake of an American gameshow, because usually when they do that it doesn't work out that well. They remade Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune over here, for example, but they were never more than a minor part of the fabric of gameshow culture rather than becoming national institutions as they are in the USA. I think the difference may be, as indicated by the title change, they paid more attention to fiddling with the format of Family Fortunes to make it fit British sensibilities better.

A fair number of seventies gameshows in the UK used imported formats. Celebrity Squares and Sale of the Century came from the US, Mr & Mrs came from Canada and Blankety Blank came from Australia. Even The Golden Shot was based on a German tv show.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Thande]

A fair number of seventies gameshows in the UK used imported formats. Celebrity Squares and Sale of the Century came from the US, Mr & Mrs came from Canada and Blankety Blank came from Australia. Even The Golden Shot was based on a German tv show.

Cheers,
Nigel.

I know, it's just you don't associate them with runaway success the way Family Fortunes was.

Deal or No Deal originally came from the Netherlands to use another example.

 

[NCW8]

I know, it's just you don't associate them with runaway success the way Family Fortunes was.

Deal or No Deal originally came from the Netherlands to use another example.

It's hard to think of a seventies British gameshow that wasn't based on an imported format. The most popular gameshow of the decade was The Generation Game and that was based on the Dutch show Een van de Acht. What would we do without the Dutch !

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[The Blue-Eyed Infidel]

A fair number of seventies gameshows in the UK used imported formats. Celebrity Squares and Sale of the Century came from the US, Mr & Mrs came from Canada and Blankety Blank came from Australia. Even The Golden Shot was based on a German tv show.

Cheers,
Nigel.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Blankety Blank was an Australian remake of Match Game.

TB-EI

 

[Falkenburg]

I claim my No-Prize! Not technically a Limerick but I couldn't fit it in one verse.
This does require a little generosity/flexibility when ennunciating syllables

A Canadian, name of Brainbin,
Took OTL and gave it a spin.
From the smallest of starts,
He won Readers and hearts.
So much in it. Oh, where to begin?

To list its charms in separate proportions,
Would tie up this rhyme in contortions.
Now you've no-one to blame,
If you play The Drinking Game.
The alcohol may well cause some distortions

He baited his hook and we bit.
Now we keep coming back for the hit.
Trek ran for five seasons,
for impeccable reasons
(Though Shatner still was a bit of a twit*).

A Quagmire abroad was truncated
While Nixon was sadly deflated
Though it isn't all roses,
Such is life, one supposes.
Just be glad 'Ulster' was somewhat abated.

We've had surprises and plenty of laughs
We've seen Trek and The Doctor cross paths.
The Fonz bit the dust,
Twas a shame but a must.
(I can't recall if there've been any gaffes).

Muppets and Tropes and the Moon
(And me, rhyming away like a loon)
So much left unsung,
Yet I've barely begun!
(Fear ye not, this'll be over soon)

It is late and I should go to bed
But I'm writing this Limerick instead.
The gleam in my eyes,
Is that lovely No-Prize
All because of That Wacky Redhead!

*Feel free to substitute a stronger word. I went for the 'U' rating.

Thnking about Due South led me to recall 'The Kids In The Hall'. They came together long after the POD.
Will they still form ITTL? I truly hope they do. The world needs a Headcrusher!

Falkenburg

 

[phx1138]

90,000 views!

Congrats. Century party?

Darth Rogers

LOL. I have a bad feeling...

CanCon policy ITTL is going to be incredibly convoluted, but that fits Canadian laws and regulations so much better anyway!

LOL. Simplicity, thy name is unknown in Ottawa.

And now, for the infobox most pertinent to the development of this timeline

Running time 50min? From Whitfield, I thought it was 54. (Of course, his accuracy has been challenged...)

"expose" on the Moon Landings came out

And the myth persists... "Fact or Faked" appears to think it was fake, too. Yes, it could have been. (Can you say "Capricorn One"?) This one annoys the hell out of me. Then again, it did debut on Fox, the Alien Kidnappings Network. (Do you suspect Fox viewers thought "X-Files" was a documentary?) I'll say no more, for fear of hijacking the thread...

Wikipedia is way behind on them as opposed to the American schedules

There's a depressing lack of anything in re Canadian entertainment, & a real American bias, sad to say. (Every single episode of "Seinfeld" has a page.)

what the CBC schedule looked like before they went all-CanCon (which was far enough back that I was too young at the time to remember).

Me, too. As I understand it, tho, CBC has always been "all-CanCon": a lot of "high culture" stuff in the '50s (opera, no less), but never U.S. programming. That was CTV. And CBC was, by law, the only game in town for a long time...

If that is to Canada what Crocodile Dundee is to Australia, I think we did very well for ourselves

Count me among those, like the Ozzies who think Mick is a caricature, who would sooner "Due South" had never happened.

Police Squad!

This really was excellent. It surprised me how much I liked it, actually, considering how stupid it could be. It managed to hit just the right note for me, except you had to watch every single second or miss a gag (which has been blamed for its cancellation...). With PVR, it would be a smash, I'd guess.

I'm going to assume that you're playing dumb, since my other Canadian readers got it right away

That was like asking a comics fan what Peter Parker's secret identity was.

As you well know, many CanCon shows were (and are) simply "responses" to similar American programming, so such a scenario is very likely.

Looking back at it, a halfway decent export could produce a U.S. response; it seems "Cold Case" (U.S.) was actually a "response" to the (earlier) Canadian product. If better Canadian exports led, in turn, to good American "replies"...

I don't know. Self-deprecating humour is a valued Canadian (and, fittingly, Commonwealth) trait. It goes back to Stephen Leacock, if not further.

I don't disagree with that. I suppose it's the approach. I got the "I Am Canadian" gag, I just didn't find it at all funny. The "Canadian Sacrelige Moments", OTOH, I liked...especially the proposed "beaver kicking Uncle Sam's ass".

I wouldn't. It's far more typical, smug, Central Canadian paternalism. (And I say this as a Central Canadian). Not to mention it's your standard "subversive", "edgy" show that tries to be "controversial" while also being trite and unfunny. Corner Gas and Red Green knew exactly what they were trying to be, and succeeded, on their own terms.

Haven't seen it, nor had any desire to. "Red Green" struck me as too Charlie Farquharson, & he stopped being funny years ago. (I preferred Ricardo Greun.)

Again, I was too young to appreciate North of 60 in its time, although I recall it being rather downbeat and weighty. I'm not sure that would sell elsewhere.

The later shows tried very, very hard to be "socially significant". Season 1, at least, had the "fish out of water" of a Vancouver RCMP Constable on the Res, which I liked a lot. Robert Bockstael (as Constable Lost) was likeable. Tom Jackson, too. (Love that voice.) And Tina Keeper was surprisingly hot then.

implies that Canadian talent is somehow in an inferior league (literally!) to American talent

That's not the position he's taking at all. He's saying, if you're successful in the States, & can get a Grammy, you don't need the promotion a Juno gives you, with which I agree. (IDK if he'd give a Juno to an American artist who worked mainly in Canada for a given year, or did an album in Canada with domestic talent & production people... I might.)

I don't by any means say the talent is inferior, just the typical domestic output. Keifer Sutherland, Graham Yost (screenplay for "Speed"), Leslie Nielsen, to name just 3, give up nothing to the best in Hollywood. By contrast, "Forever Knight" against "Angel". Or "Night Heat", which couldn't make up its mind if it wanted to be "Streets of San Francisco" or "Lou Grant". I maintain, it's perfectly possible for Canadian shows to be just as good. They aren't. They're dull. They're insipid. Even for a really interesting subject, the pacing is glacial, for no apparent reason. Only a Canadian production company could do a documentary on the World Trade Center attacks & make it boring, and one did. I've seen it.

IMO, CanCon has something to do with it: producers know they're protected, so they can, & do, aim lower. Why couldn't "Speed" have been made in Canada, by Canadians? Why couldn't "24" have been made in Canada, by Canadians? It wouldn't have been exactly the same show, no, but it need not have been a worse show. The production talent exists (& the number of U.S. shows shot here proves it). The acting talent is available (& Keifer alone proves that). The writing talent is available (& Yost is evidence of it). So why are the really good shows only made in Hollywood?

The last Canadian-made show I can recall liking was "Sidestreet", & I was so young then, I wouldn't have known good from bad. The last Canadian-made, Canadian-subject film I liked was "The Grey Fox"--& that was about an American bandit, with an American star. (Leave off "Agency", which was one of the tax dodge movies of the '80s. All the main cast was American.)

Scandinavians (including Finns, for the purposes of this discussion) tend to be very Anglophilic (linguistically, if not culturally).

That appears to be supported by what I've read, too. Finns seem especially Brit-friendly.

of all the countries in the Anglosphere, the one that most strongly resembles Scandinavia is, of course, Canada. If anything, I think Scandinavians might be more willing to embrace Canadian offerings (especially those that emphasize our similarities). Say, a show about an amateur or youth hockey team, and their trials and tribulations. I imagine that would go over very well there (along with some other ideas I have percolating).

I definitely think so. (Was "Lance et Compte" ever exported there?) OTOH, another Canadian show about hockey? Do we do nothing else? (See "dull" above...)

 

[NCW8]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Blankety Blank was an Australian remake of Match Game.

That's true, but it's still an import.

It occured to me that Mastermind might be a candidate for a non-imported British Gameshow, but the difficulty of the questions and the size of the prize probably keeps it out of the gameshow category.

Here's a couple of examples of what the show is like.

And the myth persists... "Fact or Faked" appears to think it was fake, too. Yes, it could have been. (Can you say "Capricorn One"?) This one annoys the hell out of me. Then again, it did debut on Fox, the Alien Kidnappings Network. (Do you suspect Fox viewers thought "X-Files" was a documentary?) I'll say no more, for fear of hijacking the thread...

Here's another view on the faking of the moon landings.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[phx1138]

Here's another view on the faking of the moon landings.

Why do I get the distinct feeling, somewhere in the bureaucracy of the U.S. government in 1962, that exact conversation took place? ("You're quite sure, Humphrey?" "Yes, Minister.")

Great bit, BTW. Thx.

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

Here's another view on the faking of the moon landings.

And there is a simple reason why the moon landings cannot fakes. If they were the Soviet Union would have used that against the USA.

 

[Brainbin]

Today, That Wacky Redhead attracted enough intrigued clicks from all of you that it has muscled its way to Page One with regards to total views! Thank you all for your continued interest and enthusiasm in this timeline, which has been solely responsible for this achievement. It's a testament to the phenomenal growth of this site in the last several months that it takes more than half again the number of views to get to page one now than it did when I first started writing - not quite seven months ago. (Yes, I've been tracking TWR for a very long time ) For the official record, the "magic number" was approximately 90,800 views (I was asleep at the time, alas).

Not so much "couldn't" use it, but it would have sent the wrong message, i.e. people would be tuning in expecting something more violent like two family teams taking part in Gladiators-type stunts or something.

Thanks for clearing that up, Thande. For some reason I always thought it had to do with clan warfare or the like...

I remember being quite surprised when I found out that Family Fortunes is a remake of an American gameshow, because usually when they do that it doesn't work out that well. They remade Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune over here, for example, but they were never more than a minor part of the fabric of gameshow culture rather than becoming national institutions as they are in the USA. I think the difference may be, as indicated by the title change, they paid more attention to fiddling with the format of Family Fortunes to make it fit British sensibilities better.

It really is fascinating, the subtle cultural differences between the United States and the United Kingdom; and it really does cement the fact that the US and Canada are far, far more similar than we are different, because Wheel and Jeopardy! are also very popular up here, as well; I certainly watched them religiously as a child, and ultimately they've even wound up on the CBC, of all places; two of only three American shows that the network regularly airs (the other being The Simpsons).

I seem to recall hearing that we may be returning the favour because there is talk of an American remake of our recent gameshow Pointless, which takes the concept of Family Fortunes and flips it: they asked 100 people "name something that is X" in 100 seconds and you have to guess an answer which is correct, but the least number of the 100 people named--and if you get a 'pointless' answer which none of them said, £250 is added to the jackpot. That programme already feels half American anyway because they use an incongruous number of questions themed around US geography--probably because it's easy to find data on.

You forget Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? from over a decade ago (another show I watched all the time when it was on, even the several days a week it appeared in primetime back in 1999-2000), a show that I understand was brought over more-or-less wholesale (since it had largely the same production crew, apart from subbing in Regis Philbin for Tarrant). And then there was the moderately successful The Weakest Link, again brought over largely as it was in the UK (this time including the British host, Anne Robinson).

Fun fact: Canada attempted to create a local version of Millionaire during the height of the hype; the pilot special was filmed on the New York set, with journalist (now Senator) Pamela Wallin hosting (loudly trumpeted as the first woman to host any version of Millionaire). Wallin was actually quite lousy in the role, and for various legal reasons (including the fact that ABC owned the rights to a Canadian version of Millionaire, for whatever reason), there was never a follow-up. CTV, the network that simulcast Millionaire, also got their hands on American Idol a couple of years later, and very aggressively sought to make a Canadian version, which lasted for six seasons (before it was put on "hiatus" due to "the current economic climate" in 2008). It, too, was wholly inferior to the American version.

I claim my No-Prize! Not technically a Limerick but I couldn't fit it in one verse.

Bravo! That was simply magnificent. Thank you so much, I'm really quite touched I hereby award you the No-Prize for Creative Achievement in Poetry and declare you the Poet Laureate of That Wacky Redhead! If you would like to give your opus a title, I'll add it to the Wiki entry; it deserves nothing less.

Thinking about Due South led me to recall 'The Kids In The Hall'. They came together long after the POD.
Will they still form ITTL? I truly hope they do. The world needs a Headcrusher!

That's very difficult to say. The oldest of the Kids was seven years old at the POD. The youngest was only three. And the butterflies are free to fly!

Congrats. Century party?

Absolutely! Especially since that'll be the last milestone this thread will see involving a one followed by a lot of zeroes. (Hey, we can't all be A Shift In Priorities )

LOL. Simplicity, thy name is unknown in Ottawa.

Or anywhere with a bureaucracy, really; we just seem to revel in it, for some reason (another proud legacy of our British Imperial heritage).

Running time 50min? From Whitfield, I thought it was 54. (Of course, his accuracy has been challenged...)

Five-sixths programming, one-sixths advertising was the standard from the time that shows switched from direct sponsorship, throughout the Classical Era of Television, to the imposition of the modern, more familiar ratio of (approximately) three-quarters programming, one-quarter advertising.

Me, too. As I understand it, tho, CBC has always been "all-CanCon": a lot of "high culture" stuff in the '50s (opera, no less), but never U.S. programming. That was CTV.

You are incorrect, sir! I direct you to this list. This is why the CBC was the most-watched network in Canada until the early 1990s - because, at the time, they were airing shows that people actually wanted to watch! (Hockey Night in Canada notwithstanding ) I won't dispute that they had much more CanCon than the other two networks.

Count me among those, like the Ozzies who think Mick is a caricature, who would sooner "Due South" had never happened.

Oh, phx, you are so predictably contrarian

This really was excellent. It surprised me how much I liked it, actually, considering how stupid it could be. It managed to hit just the right note for me, except you had to watch every single second or miss a gag (which has been blamed for its cancellation...). With PVR, it would be a smash, I'd guess.

Well, Police Squad! aired in 1982 IOTL, which falls within my range... Perhaps I might have occasion to discuss it, or some alternate ZAZ production

Looking back at it, a halfway decent export could produce a U.S. response; it seems "Cold Case" (U.S.) was actually a "response" to the (earlier) Canadian product. If better Canadian exports led, in turn, to good American "replies"...

Indeed, I too was thinking of Cold Squad as the exception that proves the rule.

That's not the position he's taking at all. He's saying, if you're successful in the States, & can get a Grammy, you don't need the promotion a Juno gives you, with which I agree.

Pardon me for assuming that the Juno was intended to award excellence, not promote people. Should we eliminate every British film that is nominated for Oscars from BAFTA consideration as well? What about Commonwealth authors who are shortlisted for the Nobel Prize? Should they then become ineligible to receive the Booker?

I maintain, it's perfectly possible for Canadian shows to be just as good. They aren't. They're dull. They're insipid. Even for a really interesting subject, the pacing is glacial, for no apparent reason.

Here is where I agree with you, wholeheartedly. It's funny, but the most reliably good Canadian shows tend to be the ones for younger audiences (and I say this with personal experience, having grown up with some of their more recent offerings). Perhaps because the younger cohort of actors haven't had the opportunity to leave for Hollywood yet

The acting talent is available (& Keifer alone proves that). The writing talent is available (& Yost is evidence of it).

And the directing talent, of course.

That appears to be supported by what I've read, too. Finns seem especially Brit-friendly.

Indeed, Finns seem to rival Swedes for their Anglophilia. Impressive, considering that the Finnish language is completely unrelated to English.

OTOH, another Canadian show about hockey? Do we do nothing else? (See "dull" above...)

I needed a fast and easy comparison point, and besides, they're as crazy about it over there as we are over here!

And there is a simple reason why the moon landings cannot fakes. If they were the Soviet Union would have used that against the USA.

Very well said. That's my primary reasoning as well. I don't think that even Pravda spun the Moon Landings as fake. That's all the proof you need!

Thus concludes the last post I plan on making before the next update! If all goes well, it should be ready today - if not, then tomorrow for sure. I've found that writing updates is a lot like sculpting, metaphorically speaking - you have to get all your material together, and then "shape" the update into its final form. The beginning of this next update is going to be a little... different in comparison to most previous ones, so I look forward to your reactions. Until then!

 

[Falkenburg]

If you would like to give your opus a title, I'll add it to the Wiki entry; it deserves nothing less.

You are far too kind. As to a Title. Erm, how about "That Wacky Limerick"?

Some day I may trawl through all the Threads I've posted my 'poems' in and compile them.
I am the very model of a modern William McGonagle.
Rhymes for all occassions, OTL or Allohistorical.

Take that, Poetry Lovers!

Falkenburg

 

[stevep]

He may be referring to Ted Rogers...

Guys

As a Brit call me culturally blinkered but I automatically thought of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Rogers_(comedian)

but guessing you're all referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Samuel_Rogers or possibly his son http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Rogers_III. That seems a hell of a dynasty there.

Steve

 

[Lord Insane]

Perhaps you can confirm something for me, LordInsane. Because in my experiences, Scandinavians (including Finns, for the purposes of this discussion) tend to be very Anglophilic (linguistically, if not culturally). And of all the countries in the Anglosphere, the one that most strongly resembles Scandinavia is, of course, Canada. If anything, I think Scandinavians might be more willing to embrace Canadian offerings (especially those that emphasize our similarities). Say, a show about an amateur or youth hockey team, and their trials and tribulations. I imagine that would go over very well there (along with some other ideas I have percolating).

Far from impossible, although the linguistic Anglophilia would not have been quite so widespread in the 70s as it is today (English had not been an obligatory part of primary education for quite as many decades then). The available channels seems to have been fairly insular at the time, as well, although that appears to have begun to change during the decade (Swedish state television showed several episodes of Space 1999, for instance).
As to cultural Anglophilia, it (in my experience) tends to be directed towards the United Kingdom specifically more than the Anglosphere in general.

 

[Thande]

It really is fascinating, the subtle cultural differences between the United States and the United Kingdom; and it really does cement the fact that the US and Canada are far, far more similar than we are different, because Wheel and Jeopardy! are also very popular up here, as well; I certainly watched them religiously as a child, and ultimately they've even wound up on the CBC, of all places; two of only three American shows that the network regularly airs (the other being The Simpsons).

The cultural dissonance there is indeed interesting, I didn't really appreciate it myself until I saw things like the US version of Whose Line Is It Anyway referencing Jeopardy catchphrases and getting a huge laugh just from the reference, as though it was as memetic a reference as Star Trek or something, and went to Disney World and saw that they themed one of their multimedia experiences around it. Until then I didn't realise how much bigger a thing Jeopardy (and Wheel of Fortune) is in the US (and Canada).

You forget Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? from over a decade ago (another show I watched all the time when it was on, even the several days a week it appeared in primetime back in 1999-2000), a show that I understand was brought over more-or-less wholesale (since it had largely the same production crew, apart from subbing in Regis Philbin for Tarrant). And then there was the moderately successful The Weakest Link, again brought over largely as it was in the UK (this time including the British host, Anne Robinson).

Millionaire is an interesting one because it was produced by Celador, the production company of my favourite comedian, Jasper Carrott. I'm a bit cross that it was so successful because it made him £10 million and that meant he retired from frontline comedy...

I'm not sure how it was from your perspective, but the consensus over here is that Weakest Link flopped in the States because Americans didn't like Anne Robinson's confrontational style of hosting. Of course most Britons don't like it either, but there is the sadist-show aspect of watching the contestants fail and so on... Weakest Link recently came to an end, much to the disappointment of Private Eye, which runs a 'Dumb Britain' column of amusingly stupid answers to gameshow questions, and Weakest Link used to give them at least 50% of their best material due to how people blurt out idiotic answers without thinking when under the pressure of Anne Robinson's hosting style.

Fun fact: Canada attempted to create a local version of Millionaire during the height of the hype; the pilot special was filmed on the New York set, with journalist (now Senator) Pamela Wallin hosting (loudly trumpeted as the first woman to host any version of Millionaire). Wallin was actually quite lousy in the role, and for various legal reasons (including the fact that ABC owned the rights to a Canadian version of Millionaire, for whatever reason), there was never a follow-up.

I seem to remember seeing a Canadian version of Millionaire hosted by a woman at some point, unless it was an American import after they replaced Philbin as the host (I saw it in Alberta). Either way, the woman clearly didn't get the concept of the show, giving away the answers much too easily instead of building the tension and making the contestant uneasy.

CTV, the network that simulcast Millionaire, also got their hands on American Idol a couple of years later, and very aggressively sought to make a Canadian version, which lasted for six seasons (before it was put on "hiatus" due to "the current economic climate" in 2008). It, too, was wholly inferior to the American version.

Unfortunately I am well aware of Canadian Idol as I was once confronted by two of its finalists in the Toronto Eaton Centre at the peak of its popularity...which I think is saying a lot because the Canadian shoppers sort of looked up to see them going past with bodyguards, shrugged their shoulders and went back to what they were doing

BTW, hope you don't mind these digressions, I trust that they are ultimately helping you with your project by giving you ideas about different media paths in other countries and so on.