That Wacky Redhead

[Brainbin]

Welcome to page 31, everyone! And thank you all so much for over 40,000 views!

Meaning when they acquire it, not half a decade later - don't sell short that desire or the ability to market behind it. That Wacky Redhead has already pulled off more with less...

All right, all right. I have modified the post to indicate that Doctor Who reruns become viable after the first-run show becomes a hit. In other words, starting c. 1972. However, they will not reach Star Trek levels, nor will they become as big a priority to Desilu as Star Trek, nor will audiences watch them in anywhere near the same numbers. But I suppose that the Second Doctor will indeed see (very) limited VHF play in the early 1970s. Enough that people will have a passing familiarity with him, at least, in time for the tenth anniversary.

Whose board meeting? NBC? Desilu? Or how about the BBC? You've already established Desilu as willing to stand up to a network for the good of a series, and quite frankly I doubt that NBC will want to work out the headaches of such a three way negotiation - they'll just cancel running the series if it doesn't fit their needs. Desilu I suppose might interject more, given their the 'talent' side of the American stakeholders, but from what I understand of their deal it really is about post-production, not production. While they might have an interest in discussing things with the BBC, I don't know that they are going to be able or willing to 'manage' a series being created in an entirely different system a continent and ocean away.

NBC is providing about half the funding for Doctor Who. Money talks, after all. That gives them a lot of leverage. Also, Desilu is providing post-production services essentially free of charge, with only the American syndication rights being given up in exchange. The BBC, the producers of Doctor Who, and British audiences, are going to become accustomed to a more lavish program, and both American companies are in a position to change that pretty much at will. The BBC is certainly able to make new shows without them, but there's going to be a dramatic decline in quality if they do so, more severe than the one seen in Star Trek IOTL.

I'm not seeing that, myself. Why were they complaining about "having to buy" the horror books? Was that the distributor offering no option? Even today, the majors don't actually own them (AFAIK).

My point about retailers having power is a more recent phenomenon, to be fair. Blockbuster refused to stock NC-17 movies, large theatre chains refused to show them (after the Showgirls debacle, to be fair, but still). Most video game retailers refuse to sell AO-rated games, which, true, are hardly even made. But that's an awful lot of power in the hands of the end-level distributor.

+1 to the TL game: take a shot when somebody mentions "domino".

Reading that word on its own makes me want pizza for some reason...

So Canadan slang loses a valuable euphemism.

We also lose the "Salmon Arm Salute" and the pirouette. I think that even his most ardent supporters would have no problem identifying Trudeau as a jerk, and Canada will look very different without that jerk in charge

True. As the Canadian dollar drops, however, it makes shooting here more attractive. Moreso with Telefilm (whatever it was called...) money; there's a reason so many "tax dodge" films were shot here.

Assuming that the dollar drops as far as it did IOTL. But we'll find out more about how Canada is going to look in due time.

Thanks again to Electric Monk for keeping the list of updates current. You can find it on the post immediately prior to this one.

As for the next update, once again, RL looms very large. I have some very important deadlines to meet in the next week, and my writing here may suffer as a result. I might still be able to get it done for this weekend, but don't count on it. The good news is that I'll have the week after that off entirely, so I may be able to get three or maybe even four updates out during that time.

 

[Glen]

Welcome to page 31, everyone! And thank you all so much for over 40,000 views!

All right, all right. I have modified the post to indicate that Doctor Who reruns become viable after the first-run show becomes a hit. In other words, starting c. 1972. However, they will not reach Star Trek levels, nor will they become as big a priority to Desilu as Star Trek, nor will audiences watch them in anywhere near the same numbers. But I suppose that the Second Doctor will indeed see (very) limited VHF play in the early 1970s. Enough that people will have a passing familiarity with him, at least, in time for the tenth anniversary.

Which all seems quite appropriate. I'm going to stop harping on this.

NBC is providing about half the funding for Doctor Who. Money talks, after all. That gives them a lot of leverage. Also, Desilu is providing post-production services essentially free of charge, with only the American syndication rights being given up in exchange. The BBC, the producers of Doctor Who, and British audiences, are going to become accustomed to a more lavish program, and both American companies are in a position to change that pretty much at will. The BBC is certainly able to make new shows without them, but there's going to be a dramatic decline in quality if they do so, more severe than the one seen in Star Trek IOTL.

Fair enough.

My point about retailers having power is a more recent phenomenon, to be fair. Blockbuster refused to stock NC-17 movies, large theatre chains refused to show them (after the Showgirls debacle, to be fair, but still). Most video game retailers refuse to sell AO-rated games, which, true, are hardly even made. But that's an awful lot of power in the hands of the end-level distributor.

Reading that word on its own makes me want pizza for some reason...

We also lose the "Salmon Arm Salute" and the pirouette. I think that even his most ardent supporters would have no problem identifying Trudeau as a jerk, and Canada will look very different without that jerk in charge

Assuming that the dollar drops as far as it did IOTL. But we'll find out more about how Canada is going to look in due time.

Thanks again to Electric Monk for keeping the list of updates current. You can find it on the post immediately prior to this one.

As for the next update, once again, RL looms very large. I have some very important deadlines to meet in the next week, and my writing here may suffer as a result. I might still be able to get it done for this weekend, but don't count on it. The good news is that I'll have the week after that off entirely, so I may be able to get three or maybe even four updates out during that time.

 

[phx1138]

My point about retailers having power is a more recent phenomenon, to be fair. Blockbuster refused to stock NC-17 movies, large theatre chains refused to show them (after the Showgirls debacle, to be fair, but still). Most video game retailers refuse to sell AO-rated games, which, true, are hardly even made. But that's an awful lot of power in the hands of the end-level distributor.

You've proven my point, I think: the retailers have always had the power to refuse to carry things. IDK about video, but the distributors even refused to handle at least one black comics character in the '50s. (The bundles came back unopened about half the time.)

Reading that word on its own makes me want pizza for some reason...

Pizza & beer!

We also lose the "Salmon Arm Salute" and the pirouette. I think that even his most ardent supporters would have no problem identifying Trudeau as a jerk, and Canada will look very different without that jerk in charge

Too young to say, I guess. I liked that he flipped off Uncle Sam, myself.

Assuming that the dollar drops as far as it did IOTL.

True enough. Like everyone, I'll wait & see. (Hurry up, already.)

 

[joea64]

Reading that word on its own makes me want pizza for some reason...

Mmmm. I think it was in the 1970's that the various pizza delivery chains and pizza restaurants really started to go national. I didn't run into Domino's personally until I was at East Carolina University in the early 1980's, but a major campus hangout was the local Mr. Gatti's (today known as Gatti's Pizza), which was quite big across the Southeast in the 1980's before a major retrenchment - today most of its restaurants are in Texas. I don't really remember names such as Pizza Hut, Little Caesar's or Papa John's becoming behemoths before the early 1980's; Pizza Hut was probably the most widespread. Of note, Godfather's Pizza, which you may recall in connection with a certain gentleman by the name of Herman Cain, was a major concern in the 1970's and early 1980's. Shakey's, which I've mentioned before, is probably the best-known national pizza-restaurant chain at this time (1971-72).

Fast food is indubitably a key part of American popular culture (and there's a TV connection; if nothing else, the commercials are ubiquitous), so maybe you can take a look at it in future updates. The thing is that, as of 1971-72, which is where I believe you are right now, the major fast-food chains, except probably McDonald's itself, aren't quite the overwhelming presence they'll become later, though they're unquestionably quite prominent. (Remember that when I was living on Okinawa in the mid-1970's, it was a HUGE event when McDonald's opened its first store on the island.) McDonald's, I think, didn't even introduce its Quarter Pounder, its best-known sandwich next to the Big Mac, until 1973 or 1974; I remember well that in the 1970's, I went through a phase for some years where I didn't like cheese and always insisted on ordering my Quarter Pounders without cheese (which occasionally caused some turmoil at the Mickey D's counters, since they're not set up to accommodate "special orders" like Burger King. )

 

[Kalvan]

Well, Pizza Hut was definitely a player by the late '60s at least. It sponsored several NHRA drag racing teams including "Big Daddy" Don Garlits.

 

[anon_user]

Finally caught back up! Hooray for TWR!
***
A few random questions/thoughts on butterflies:
1) Did Vietnam ending early save the draft (at least for a time) in the US? The US keeping the draft would have effects that would almost definitely not show up in the TL itself, but would be an interesting butterfly.
1b) The early end of Vietnam means less malaise in the US Army... and less funding issues. We might see some defense projects from this period pushed through to completion, or at least more money spent that way; the US military in general is probably less concerned with downsizing. Very little visible impact that would show up on TWR, unless this project succeeding somehow leads to more interest in helicopters and an earlier "Airwolf"-like show...
2) Looking ahead quite some time (and again, mostly offscreen, apart from "Nightline"), will the Iranian Revolution (and Hostage Crisis, and the 1980 siege of the Iranian Embassy in London (and its dramatic - televised(!) - ending by the SAS, which helped push 'commandos' into the spotlight)) still occur?
3) Will the Symbionese Liberation Army still form? Will it still kidnap Patty Hearst?
4) What's going on with the CIA? Are there major investigations on the lines of the Church Committee of OTL, or without Watergate, is minimal oversight still the rule? Not much impact on the TL proper, probably, but still interesting - and there might be conspiracy thrillers inspired by whatever investigations of the CIA do come about.
***
And a pop-culture related question:
What's the status of game shows at this point in TWR, and in the near future? Is Bob Barker going to make an appearance?

 

[Falkenburg]

Here's an intriguing little piece of pop cultural ephemera for you. Seeing as we seem to be on a fast food theme.

Moscow got a McDonalds ('90) before Belfast did ('91). The Belfast one being the first in Northern Ireland as a whole.

A fact of which we (in Belfast) were perversely proud.

Falkenburg

 

[Glen]

Here's an intriguing little piece of pop cultural ephemera for you. Seeing as we seem to be on a fast food theme.

Moscow got a McDonalds ('90) before Belfast did ('91). The Belfast one being the first in Northern Ireland as a whole.

A fact of which we (in Belfast) were perversely proud.

Falkenburg

Suddenly I understand you a whole lot better!

 

[phx1138]

We might see some defense projects from this period pushed through to completion...this project succeeding somehow leads to more interest in helicopters and an earlier "Airwolf"-like show...

I like how you think. Better than the OTL options, both of them, & keeping organic firepower in Army hands.

Looking ahead ...will the Iranian Revolution (and Hostage Crisis, and the 1980 siege of the Iranian Embassy in London...still occur?

I don't see a reason it wouldn't. Then again, how much of what happened was a product of who was PotUS? IDK.

In that vein, how does Humphrey respond to the oil crisis?

Will the Symbionese Liberation Army still form? Will it still kidnap Patty Hearst?

Both times, again, I don't see why not. (Providing you don't believe Hearst actually joined SLA willingly; there's some evidence suggesting she did.) If it doesn't, you may butterfly the Serpent Crown. You've already butterflied Secret Empire. (I've tended to think the #1 was supposed to be Nixon.)

What's going on with the CIA? Are there major investigations on the lines of the Church Committee of OTL, or without Watergate, is minimal oversight still the rule? Not much impact on the TL proper, probably, but still interesting - and there might be conspiracy thrillers inspired by whatever investigations of the CIA do come about.

Hmm...

 

[Brainbin]

Which all seems quite appropriate. I'm going to stop harping on this.

Thank you

IDK about video, but the distributors even refused to handle at least one black comics character in the '50s. (The bundles came back unopened about half the time.)

Unfortunately, that sort of behaviour was par for the course in the 1950s.

Pizza & beer!

An unimpeachable combination.

True enough. Like everyone, I'll wait & see. (Hurry up, already.)

Patience is a virtue.

Mmmm. I think it was in the 1970's that the various pizza delivery chains and pizza restaurants really started to go national.

Thanks for the information about the various pizza chains. The thing about my perspective is that, being Canadian, only the most successful restaurant chains make their way up here. (And very few pizza chains, as it happens. Pizza Hut has definitely made the biggest market penetration; Domino's and Little Caesar's can be found too, but we have a lot of our own chains.) I understand that there are more American restaurants out west, for some reason (and EM, TB-EI, and other Western readers can speak to this better than I could, having never been there myself). And, of course, some restaurants have retrenched back to the United States, alas.

Fast food is indubitably a key part of American popular culture (and there's a TV connection; if nothing else, the commercials are ubiquitous), so maybe you can take a look at it in future updates.

Very true. Weren't the 1970s the height of the McDonaldland concept? With Mayor McCheese and the Fry Kids and the whole gang? By the time I was a kid, it had been whittled down to the "core" regulars of Ronald, Grimace, Birdie, and Hamburglar. Now it's only Ronald...

The thing is that, as of 1971-72, which is where I believe you are right now, the major fast-food chains, except probably McDonald's itself, aren't quite the overwhelming presence they'll become later, though they're unquestionably quite prominent.

Don't forget the two "grandfathered" fast food chains: Dairy Queen and A&W.

McDonald's, I think, didn't even introduce its Quarter Pounder, its best-known sandwich next to the Big Mac, until 1973 or 1974

Invented in 1971 by a franchisee in Fresno; national roll-out the following year. So right about now!

I remember well that in the 1970's, I went through a phase for some years where I didn't like cheese and always insisted on ordering my Quarter Pounders without cheese (which occasionally caused some turmoil at the Mickey D's counters, since they're not set up to accommodate "special orders" like Burger King. )

I really hope, for your sake as well as everyone else's, that those two places had better burgers back then. Sure, I loved them as much as everyone else when I was a kid, but they really are awful, aren't they?

Well, Pizza Hut was definitely a player by the late '60s at least. It sponsored several NHRA drag racing teams including "Big Daddy" Don Garlits.

Thanks for the input, Kalvan! You remind me that I neglected to cover racing in my sports update, though I'm not sure how "major" it was back then (I know that today, it's arguably one of the "Big Four" in the USA, even over hockey).

Finally caught back up! Hooray for TWR!

Thanks for coming back, anon_user

1) Did [verboten] ending early save the draft (at least for a time) in the US?

I think that Humphrey will quietly end the draft, at least de facto. There's certainly enough money in the budget to raise salaries and begin advertising campaigns to attract volunteers, as Nixon did IOTL.

1b) The early end of [verboten] means less malaise in the US Army... and less funding issues. We might see some defense projects from this period pushed through to completion, or at least more money spent that way; the US military in general is probably less concerned with downsizing. Very little visible impact that would show up on TWR, unless this project succeeding somehow leads to more interest in helicopters and an earlier "Airwolf"-like show...

I agree with your analysis, and that I probably won't be discussing it in any detail. Humphrey cannot possibly reduce peacetime funding with hawks like Jackson breathing down his neck. The doctrine of "peace through superior firepower" will endure, and of course there's the incentive to strengthen the military to avoid another overseas quagmire in the future.

2) Looking ahead quite some time (and again, mostly offscreen, apart from "Nightline"), will the Iranian Revolution (and Hostage Crisis, and the 1980 siege of the Iranian Embassy in London (and its dramatic - televised(!) - ending by the SAS, which helped push 'commandos' into the spotlight)) still occur?

I definitely have plans for Iran ITTL - but they won't come up for quite some time, and even hinting at them would spoil the surprise

3) Will the Symbionese Liberation Army still form? Will it still kidnap Patty Hearst?

Possibly, though some of the underlying causes of its formation will be somewhat mooted with the far more vocally integrationist and anti-racist Humphrey in charge. He'll help to create the impression that positive change is being made, even if that isn't necessarily true on the ground. As for Patty Hearst, I think her kidnapping (which took place in 1974 IOTL) and her youth at the time of the POD (age 12) create sufficient space for butterflies to prevent her capture (and possible brainwashing).

4) What's going on with the CIA? Are there major investigations on the lines of the Church Committee of OTL, or without Watergate, is minimal oversight still the rule? Not much impact on the TL proper, probably, but still interesting - and there might be conspiracy thrillers inspired by whatever investigations of the CIA do come about.

I have some ideas about the CIA flexing its muscles in the not-too-distant future. Again, that would spoil the surprise. But to answer your question, they're basically unfettered ITTL. I definitely like your pop culture idea, and you may see something like it in the future

What's the status of game shows at this point in TWR, and in the near future? Is Bob Barker going to make an appearance?

As you may know, daytime game shows were a tentpole of Fred Silverman's overhaul of CBS. So they will play a part in the next cycle of updates (1972-73). And we'll definitely be hearing about the host of The New Price is Right when we get there.

Moscow got a McDonalds ('90) before Belfast did ('91). The Belfast one being the first in Northern Ireland as a whole.

A fact of which we (in Belfast) were perversely proud.

I don't know, Falkenburg. Moscow got their McDonald's one year before the Fall of Communism. Belfast got theirs seven years before the end of the Troubles. In relative terms, I'm afraid those Russians have got you beat!

In that vein, how does Humphrey respond to the oil crisis?

That's far too loaded a question for me to answer with anything other than "No comment"

 

[joea64]

At this time in TTL/OTL (1971-72), auto racing is still somewhat of a niche sport in the U.S., though with active fandoms in Formula 1, NASCAR, drag racing, etc. NASCAR, which is the "Big Four" sport I think you were referring to, Brainbin, in your last post, is still very much a Southern regional sport (Richard Petty, the legendary "King", is in his heyday about now, I believe). NASCAR didn't, I think, go really national for at least another decade or so at least. And, to be honest, it hasn't been until the last few years that technological advances, namely, all those doodads and gadgets on the TV screen that show you tons of information, really made it possible for me to appreciate NASCAR racing. Until then, I felt a bit traitorous to my home region that when I looked at a race on TV, all I could really see was a bunch of souped-up cars zooming around a track.

 

[Falkenburg]

I don't know, Falkenburg. Moscow got their McDonald's one year before the Fall of Communism. Belfast got theirs seven years before the end of the Troubles. In relative terms, I'm afraid those Russians have got you beat!

Ah yes the socio-political ramifications of consumer preferences in Fast Food.
Illustrative to note that KFC, with their communal 'Bucket' offer were far more popular in NI than the individualistic 'Meal' offers of other operators.

Sadly KFC never brought out a 'Hyper-Bucket' that might have encouraged cross-community interaction.
This, as many notable researchers I've just made up have noted, led to communities turning inwards, subverting the ethos of collective nourishment at the heart of the Brand.
Both of the major communities choose to share only within the parameters of their respective identities.

Whereas one might have hoped to have seen a rallying around the common love of chicken and a broad-based consensus emerging from the foundation that it was indeed "Finger-licking Good", Northern Irelands' communities fixated on the central schism of KFC-ism.

The Majority community believed that the deliciousness arose from the "Herbs & Spices", while the Minority held firm to their belief that it was, in fact, "The Way It's Cooked".

Of course I could just be making this up.
And yet it's as good an explanation as any, as to why the pointless violence continued long past the point at which the fundamental issues could have been resolved.

Falkenburg

 

[The Blue-Eyed Infidel]

Thanks for the information about the various pizza chains. The thing about my perspective is that, being Canadian, only the most successful restaurant chains make their way up here. (And very few pizza chains, as it happens. Pizza Hut has definitely made the biggest market penetration; Domino's and Little Caesar's can be found too, but we have a lot of our own chains.) I understand that there are more American restaurants out west, for some reason (and EM, TB-EI, and other Western readers can speak to this better than I could, having never been there myself). And, of course, some restaurants have retrenched back to the United States, alas.

My own impression is that American chains tend to get franchises in Western Canada at at greater rate that chains originating in Eastern Canada; still, both have to be fairly well established before making it out here.

TB-EI

 

[The Professor]

Another update nom nom.

Going well. And all teh comments keeping you on plausibility

 

[Brainbin]

NASCAR, which is the "Big Four" sport I think you were referring to, Brainbin, in your last post, is still very much a Southern regional sport (Richard Petty, the legendary "King", is in his heyday about now, I believe).

It was indeed the sport to which I was referring. I knew that it didn't become a big deal until fairly recently, though certainly NASCAR is not the only game in town - especially at this point in time.

Until then, I felt a bit traitorous to my home region that when I looked at a race on TV, all I could really see was a bunch of souped-up cars zooming around a track.

I don't see the appeal at all, myself - but then I never cared for any kind of closed-circuit racing, automotive or otherwise. And yes, that includes the horses, the dogs, and even speed-skating. It's just not my thing.

Ah yes the socio-political ramifications of consumer preferences in Fast Food.

That's a very interesting story, Falkenburg. Thank you for sharing. You're quite the master of blatantly obvious metaphors. You put even The Great Gatsby to shame!

My own impression is that American chains tend to get franchises in Western Canada at at greater rate that chains originating in Eastern Canada; still, both have to be fairly well established before making it out here.

That would not surprise me.

Another update nom nom.

You do seem to enjoy eating this thread, don't you, Professor?

Going well. And all teh comments keeping you on plausibility

Thank you

The next update will indeed be this coming weekend. I've spent some time discussing finer technical matters on a wide variety of subjects with a number of my readers (and you all know who you are), and starting with the next "More To Come" post, I'll be crediting them as special consultants. I want to thank them all, here and now, for their consideration and their patience throughout our correspondence.

 

[neamathla]

Thank you
Very true. Weren't the 1970s the height of the McDonaldland concept? With Mayor McCheese and the Fry Kids and the whole gang? By the time I was a kid, it had been whittled down to the "core" regulars of Ronald, Grimace, Birdie, and Hamburglar. Now it's only Ronald...

Sid and Marty Krofft's lawsuit and million dollar payoff were part of the reason.

 

[The Professor]

You do seem to enjoy eating this thread, don't you, Professor?

It's very tasty, thank you

 

[phx1138]

all I could really see was a bunch of souped-up cars zooming around a track.

I don't see the appeal at all, myself - but then I never cared for any kind of closed-circuit racing

In its defense (& not a particular NASCAR fan), I believe it depends on the understanding of the rule niceties, & observation of the subtleties. That's to say, if you don't understand basketball, it's just a bunch of guys running up & down with a ball; hockey, little more than guys skating around with sticks. Not terribly interesting. And so, it may also depend on the quality of the TV commentary (which, in my experience of U.S. broadcasters & NASCAR, is pretty awful).

 

[Brainbin]

The next update should be ready tomorrow. It may be rather late in the evening, but I'll do my very best. If all goes well this week, I hope to have four updates posted between now and March 13 (not counting the customary "More To Come" post). Part of the reason for this post's delay - in addition to my incredibly busy and stressful week IRL - has been a great deal of deliberation on its content behind the scenes. But I think a fine balance has finally been struck, and I hope that you'll all agree. So, until then!

 

[vultan]

Eagerly awaiting more from this!