I know it's outside of the scope of this TL, but given that the story left off with George Takei forging a successful political career...

With the recent allegations about George Takei's behavior, one wonders how it would've played out in a world where he was a veteran United States Congressman, Senator, or had even achieved higher office...
 
I know it's outside of the scope of this TL, but given that the story left off with George Takei forging a successful political career...

With the recent allegations about George Takei's behavior, one wonders how it would've played out in a world where he was a veteran United States Congressman, Senator, or had even achieved higher office...

Might've come out earlier, politicians seem to have had less protection from such things than Hollywood.
 
Might've come out earlier, politicians seem to have had less protection from such things than Hollywood.

Of course, pre-2010s, such investigations and accusations likely wouldn't have come as part of a general movement to expose sexual predators (there's no way the current wave of Hollywood sexual misconduct scandals would've gotten the same sort of traction thirty years ago), but as a specific right-wing effort to take down a prominent gay politician.
 

You know what's interesting? Considering all that's happened and all the people we've lost since I started writing this TL, its original villain, George Schlatter, is still with us. And doing a terrific job of reinforcing what I still think is one of TTL's greatest moments. (If I do say so myself.) Hard to believe that was over six years ago now. A lot has changed since then. More than one storyline I wrote about as a deliberate counter-factual to what happened IOTL turned out to not be so counter-factual after all, which continues to bemuse me.

Thanks for helping to keep this thread alive, @Mr_Fanboy, and thanks to all of you who are still following along. I've not been very active in AH in the year-and-a-half since I completed TWR, which I lament but unfortunately real life has a tendency to get in the way of our free time. Every now and then I've thought about revisiting TWR, but I often feel it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.

That said, I am still around and I still follow this thread if anyone has any questions or comments they'd like to share. I can't guarantee I'll answer all of them, but just because the show has gone into syndication doesn't mean the original cast and crew shouldn't be released from having to address its continuing popularity in reruns!
 
That said, I am still around and I still follow this thread if anyone has any questions or comments they'd like to share. I can't guarantee I'll answer all of them, but just because the show has gone into syndication doesn't mean the original cast and crew shouldn't be released from having to address its continuing popularity in reruns!
Can you cover late 80s to present day? (After Lucille's retirement)
 
Can you cover late 80s to present day? (After Lucille's retirement)
He said a long time ago that he wouldn't be doing a sequel/continuation of this TL, but that he had an idea or two for a "spiritual successor" to it.
But as he just said himself, a lot has changed...so who knows?

But whether it's related to TWH or not, I think it's safe to say that his next TL will surely be....fascinating ;) (if "real life" ever gives him the time to write it that is).
 
Can you cover late 80s to present day? (After Lucille's retirement)

He said a long time ago that he wouldn't be doing a sequel/continuation of this TL, but that he had an idea or two for a "spiritual successor" to it.

This is true. And no, I will not cover the late-1980s to the present day. For one thing it took me 4.5 years to cover 20 - and we're now over 30 years out from 1986. At that pace it will take me seven years just to get to 2018 - by which time it will be 2025. So it'll take me another one-and-a-half years to reach 2025 and so on - so it'll be just about a decade from now before I'm fully caught up. And that's assuming I don't continue to slow my pace of updates, as was my pattern all along. As I'd rather not turn into George R.R. Martin, I must once again reiterate that TWR ends on September 20, 1986. A red-letter date in the history of this timeline.

That said, I might be willing to share a few of my ideas about the would-be spiritual successor to TWR. As you all know, the hinge of TWR is Lucille Ball staying at Desilu which allows her to stand up for Star Trek when Gene Roddenberry gets into a snit with George Schlatter who leaves Laugh-In and can't convince Richard Nixon to say "sock it to me?", which changes history. I've never had the same "EUREKA!" moment for the follow-up (or for any of my other TL ideas), which is probably the main reason why I haven't written it - I have yet to feel that same compulsion. Right now my TL idea (which has the working title You're Thinking Right) is more a collection of fun changes and effects without a proper casual link connecting any of them.

If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to share a few of the concepts I had in mind for You're Thinking Right as a kind of coda to the world of TWR.
 
This is true. And no, I will not cover the late-1980s to the present day. For one thing it took me 4.5 years to cover 20 - and we're now over 30 years out from 1986. At that pace it will take me seven years just to get to 2018 - by which time it will be 2025. So it'll take me another one-and-a-half years to reach 2025 and so on - so it'll be just about a decade from now before I'm fully caught up. And that's assuming I don't continue to slow my pace of updates, as was my pattern all along. As I'd rather not turn into George R.R. Martin, I must once again reiterate that TWR ends on September 20, 1986. A red-letter date in the history of this timeline.

That said, I might be willing to share a few of my ideas about the would-be spiritual successor to TWR. As you all know, the hinge of TWR is Lucille Ball staying at Desilu which allows her to stand up for Star Trek when Gene Roddenberry gets into a snit with George Schlatter who leaves Laugh-In and can't convince Richard Nixon to say "sock it to me?", which changes history. I've never had the same "EUREKA!" moment for the follow-up (or for any of my other TL ideas), which is probably the main reason why I haven't written it - I have yet to feel that same compulsion. Right now my TL idea (which has the working title You're Thinking Right) is more a collection of fun changes and effects without a proper casual link connecting any of them.

If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to share a few of the concepts I had in mind for You're Thinking Right as a kind of coda to the world of TWR.
Yes please! :biggrin:
 
Such enthusiasm! :D Thank you all for taking such an interest.

Being a pop-cultural timeline like TWR, I did find in planning a lot of early changes hinged on what was happening at the nascent FOX network, which began broadcast operations (in earnest) in the fall of 1986 (although its primetime schedule did not commence until April 5, 1987). So let's start there:

Stupid Like a FOX

The Dog Pound

The Late Show (not to be confused with several other programs by that name) was the first-ever original series broadcast by the FOX network, although its abject failure has led FOX to retroactively award that milestone to their first primetime series, Married... with Children, which began broadcasting six months later. It was launched as a vehicle for Joan Rivers, who had been the permanent guest host for Johnny Carson. Through most of the 1980s, he was engaged in protracted contract negotiations with NBC - for whom he was one of their few proven draws until their primetime network schedule began taking off mid-decade. There were some rumblings that he might retire in 1987 - his twenty-fifth anniversary on The Tonight Show - and NBC circulated a memo listing ten possible replacements for him. Rivers, despite being the permanent guest host, was surprisingly not among them. When she found this out, she was livid. She had turned down numerous opportunities to star in her own late-night show out of loyalty to Carson. Thus, when the new fourth network approached her hoping that she might headline their own attempt to do late-night, she jumped at the chance, debuting on October 9, 1986.

This might be a historical footnote but for an interesting wrinkle. Rivers herself crashed and burned on The Late Show, not lasting a year in the job (she was fired in May). She'd burned her bridges with Carson, who took her decision to defect without consulting him very personally and imposed a lifetime ban from her ever appearing again on The Tonight Show, which was even honoured by his successors Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien - Jimmy Fallon, however, lifted the ban, and she appeared twice on his incarnation of the show before her death in 2014. The problem FOX faced was that they needed a new host. There was some talk of NYC-area "shock jock" Howard Stern getting the gig, but these fell apart. There was a short-lived rotation of guest hosts but producers quickly settled on a young African-American comedian named Arsenio Hall. He signed a 13-week deal while FOX worked on a replacement for The Late Show. Problem was, it turned out Arsenio was a hit. And by the time plans for the replacement show hit a snag and the network realized they had a winner in Arsenio, he had already found other work (co-starring on his friend Eddie Murphy's film Coming to America). FOX soldiered on with The Late Show until they finally threw up their hands and cancelled it in 1988.

But Arsenio Hall returned to late-night with a syndicated talk show in 1989. And this man, with his impressive youth demographics and mastery of the cultural zeitgeist, did what no other hopeful before him could: he dethroned Johnny Carson. It didn't help that NBC didn't really need him any more - their primetime network schedule during the late-1980s and early-1990s was one of the most successful in television history. So Carson decided to retire in 1992, after 30 years instead of 25. His ratings recovered in his farewell year but by then it was too late, and Carson's last show aired on May 22, 1992. Although Late Night host David Letterman was his preferred successor, the network (ironically) chose his new permanent guest host, Jay Leno, which is a whole other story, but for the fact that the Leno-Letterman wars which would dominate the mid-1990s (Leno eventually emerged victorious) turned the former top dog, Arsenio Hall, into an also-ran. His decision to appeal more strongly to his black audience (not unjustifiable given the tense social climate of the early-1990s) would prove costly, particularly his interview with Louis Farrakhan in 1994; his show was cancelled later that year. (As has been the case for so many other '90s shows, a revival was attempted recently, but it was short-lived).

This is where the WI comes in. Arsenio Hall being named as the permanent host of The Late Show in 1987 would make FOX a major player in late night (notably, apart from the short-lived - and even more disastrous - Chevy Chase Show in 1993, FOX has never again attempted to re-enter the arena) and in all likelihood gives the nascent FOX network a huge hit a couple years ahead of schedule. (Married... with Children and The Simpsons both put FOX in the map in the 1989-90 season IOTL.) This could lead to Carson retiring earlier (he renegotiated his contract on an annual or biennial basis) and perhaps lead to Leno, who had been his guest host since 1987, being passed over for the "hipper" Letterman. (This being before NYC was cleaned up, he would still probably have to move to Burbank - of course when CBS poached him IOTL he had the clout to insist on staying in the Big Apple.) Who replaces Letterman on Late Night is another question. IOTL, the recently departed SNL repertory player Dana Carvey was the hot favourite but declined out of admiration for Letterman, leading them to take a chance on an unknown former SNL and Simpsons writer named Conan O'Brien. O'Brien wouldn't be a factor ITTL even if it were 1993, for reasons which will soon be made apparent. Carvey, likewise, is still in the midst of his SNL run in 1989-90 and his best years there are still ahead of him.

More importantly for Arsenio, the oversight of FOX network executives will rein him in to an extent; Farrakhan would never be a guest of The Late Show with Arsenio Hall. But Arsenio would probably become a major figure in the entertainment industry through 1988. If he can overtake Carson despite FOX's patchier infrastructure (FOX was mostly UHF channels whereas Carson airs on 210 VHF stations coast-to-coast), it will be a major blow to Carson and probably see him bowing out by 1990 or even 1989.

You're Thinking Right

Any Simpsons fan worth their salt knows the story of their genesis: Matt Groening, who was meeting with James L. Brooks to discuss adapting his popular Life in Hell comic strip into animated shorts for the new variety show The Tracey Ullman Show, realized as he was in the waiting room that this would mean signing away all his rights to the comic, so he hastily sketched replacement characters based on his own family. (Groening has a remarkable business savvy - he made a mint on the merchandising for the Simpsons characters and - as anyone who has seen official artwork knows - requires that his name always appear on it.) But I'm willing to say that's a burst of inspiration which could easily be butterflied. So for whatever reason, plans fall through and Groening leaves without having sold anything. The Tracey Ullman Show goes to air with only one recurring cartoon short, Dr N!Godatu, which doesn't even last through the end of the first season. Without The Simpsons launching during the show's fourth season, Ullman's two key sidekicks, Julie Kavner and Dan Castellaneta, are able to devote all of their energies to the continuing success of The Tracey Ullman Show. So my guess is that soldiers on for a good few more years, say until 1994 (eight seasons) - which is when In Living Color was cancelled IOTL.

Although this brings us to In Living Color. In the early-1990s, FOX was "the black network" - home to not only In Living Color but also Martin and Living Single among others. But would In Living Color have aired on a network that already had a popular variety show (with an all-white cast, I might add)? IOTL, The Tracey Ullman Show was cancelled in 1990 (after its first and only season without Simpsons shorts), and In Living Color premiered that same year. It's hard to imagine it finding a home on one of the other three networks. It would be all wrong for the geriatric CBS, and NBC doesn't need to take a risk when they're riding so high. ABC, maybe? Or cable - 1990 is late enough for a berth on cable. Maybe HBO, even. I'm willing to entertain suggestions.

As for Tracey Ullman, she fulfills her dream of becoming the next Carol Burnett, winning a handful of Emmys and possibly getting a sitcom deal after the variety show ends. Or starting a movie career. Or a popular stage run on Broadway. Julie Kavner continues working as a character actress. Dan Castellaneta gets a scene-stealing supporting role on a popular late-1990s sitcom and wins an Emmy for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series. And The Simpsons never comes to be. And the impact of that one butterfly on the rest of the 1990s would be incalculably massive.

(The name of this section - and of the TL - comes from the theme song of The Tracey Ullman Show, "You're Thinking Right", composed and performed by George Clinton of Parliament-Funkadelic. I've always liked that title for a no-Simpsons TL).

---

That's enough for today. I did have several other topics of discussion, but it's so dense, every single topic has so many things going on, and it's like poetry, it's sort of - they rhyme. Every stanza kind of rhymes with the last one. Hopefully it'll work. It's stylistically designed to be that way and I can't undo that, but I can diminish the effects of it. It's gonna be great. Yes, I had to get in a few more digs at George Lucas. No, I'm not sorry.

(And I think this is sufficient to generate some discussion before I continue.)
 
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Now that is interesting...if The Simpsons gets butterflied away, there might not be anyone willing to take the risk on animated programming not strictly aimed at children...
That could slow down the importation of more mature anime programs....or it could become the hallmark of anime ITTL: "Cartoons" are for children, but "Anime" is for a more mature audience.
 
I wonder if Howard Stern taking over Late Night is plausible, the later slot might alleviate content concerns and he was a regular Letterman guest.

Regarding In Living Color, HBO would depend on if Kids in the Hall is on there for the same reasons brought up with Fox still having Ullman, though it could fill their slot between seasons. Another option is MTV, or it could be a launch show for Ha! or the Comedy Channel, presuming those happen.

No Simpsons really is huge, and unless Liquid TV happens in spite of that also means no Beavis & Butthead, so none of Mike Judge's follow-ups or Daria.

I hope future discussion includes (hopefully more positive) developments for a Doctor Who revival.
 
I wonder if Howard Stern taking over Late Night is plausible, the later slot might alleviate content concerns and he was a regular Letterman guest..

For a time. Not too many years ago, Stern admitted that he and Letterman should have, could have and probably would have been really close if Stern had not been so insecure back then. They were hitting celebrity at the same time, were outsiders and subversive and all that, but he was too insecure and turned that into hostility.
 
For a time. Not too many years ago, Stern admitted that he and Letterman should have, could have and probably would have been really close if Stern had not been so insecure back then. They were hitting celebrity at the same time, were outsiders and subversive and all that, but he was too insecure and turned that into hostility.

Yeah, I do remember their relationship as it was growing frosty in the mid-90s when I was listening to him.
 
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