That Wacky Redhead
- Thread starter Brainbin
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I agree with your thesis here, the 80's in the UK produced some radical telly along with its politics- def no Comedy Strip or Spitting Image without Mrs T, unfortunately. However the time was right for a change of comedy generation, so I could see the likes of French & Saunders, Lenry Henry, Smith & Jones breaking through, even if the more radical lot didn't.
BTW- isn't Mr Whitlam in Australia?
Time to belatedly answer some outstanding questions! Apologies for the delay, but 'tis the season to be busy!
They were cancelled, as IOTL, because they were on network television in the 1960s. (Also, the overseas quagmire ended in the spring of 1969 ITTL, so they would have lost half their material had they soldiered on - so perhaps they would have seen their time pass them by, as was also the case with M*A*S*H ITTL.)
It was essentially the same format, since (as near as I can tell) British breakfast television is based heavily on the American morning show, which predates the POD.
Thank you, Owen!
Yes, my rationale being that if even Mrs T had to cave on that point, Whitelaw certainly would. English closed-captioning is available, however (and Welsh for ITV-1 Wales).OwenM said:
No, because Carson is on shakier ground relative to NBC than IOTL, and he's won fewer concessions in past contract negotiations. Therefore, the timeslot after The Tonight Show is not under his control, and Tomorrow remains on the air, hosted by Tom Snyder in its original format (as Fred Silverman remains with ABC and did not defect to NBC). David Letterman remains an obscure figure ITTL.
20th Century Fox is under the ownership of the Coca-Cola Company, and bottles of Coca-Cola appear in all of their films whose premises would allow for their presence.
Wow, going all the way back to the 1960s, are we?
They were cancelled, as IOTL, because they were on network television in the 1960s. (Also, the overseas quagmire ended in the spring of 1969 ITTL, so they would have lost half their material had they soldiered on - so perhaps they would have seen their time pass them by, as was also the case with M*A*S*H ITTL.)An excellent point, and I'm inclined to agree. French & Saunders in many ways were successors to the Morecambe & Wise legacy, and the opportunity is ripe for a passing of the torch.
Indeed he is! Thank you so much for catching that, it has been corrected. Although, in my defence, "Whitelaw" and "Whitlam" are extremely similar (albeit not politically)Ogrebear said:
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I presume that Billy would be used as an example of Straw Critic. Take That, Critics!, and The Complainer Is Always Wrong. I can't understand how the BBC could be so bloody arrogant that they think that creating a character dedicated to rubbing the fandom's collective noses in how wrong they are about the show wouldn't blow up in their faces.
At least the Universal Globe can be more successfully turned into a casino decoration than the MGM lion could in OTL.
At least the Universal Globe can be more successfully turned into a casino decoration than the MGM lion could in OTL.
Victoria Wood as well - she had a similar Variety style humour to Morcambe and Wise. It's worth noting that she not only produced the drama/documentary Eric and Ernie, but also starred as Eric's mother.
Cheers,
Nigel.
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Oh great, now I'm expecting a renaming to 20th Century Coca-Cola Films? Is there a Fox network in this TL?
Given Coca-Cola owned Columbia Pictures OTL, I doubt that happens.
As I was once told in an entirely unrelated discussion, it's always a mistake to imagine the BBC as having opinions on anything; its too big and diffuse for that. From the sounds of it, by the time you reached people in the hierarchy who weren't part of the coterie of Promoted Fanboys Armed With Canon, you were also far enough from actual Doctor Who production that they wouldn't have entirely understood the problem if you explained it to them.(Picture long conversations that have to start with what a fandom is, and why a children's show about a time traveller in a phone box has one.)
Merry Christmas, everyone! I hope you're all enjoying the holidays, and spending time with your loved ones - they're the greatest gift of all.
And I hope you've been watching all the Christmas classics! Remember the Animated Adventures of Star Trek Christmas Special? Jimmy Probst said it all better than I ever could
And I hope you've been watching all the Christmas classics! Remember the Animated Adventures of Star Trek Christmas Special? Jimmy Probst said it all better than I ever could
All excellent tropes to describe Our Boy Billy
Very true! It's also much easier to craft the World's Largest Globe than the World's Largest LionHonestAbe1809 said:
Well, beat me on the bottom with a Woman's Weekly!
Mr.E has it - for all their faults, at least Coca-Cola didn't brazenly attempt to demolish the brand of an august Golden Age studio as a monument to their own ego, Sony
Daibhid has it precisely. As IOTL, the higher-ups at the BBC are largely insulated from the creative aspects of production, and what they would find objectionable do not correlate in the slightest with what most viewers would find objectionable, and therefore they do not object to it. In the end, of course, they'll object to the ratings, and that objection will be more than enough.
Welcome aboard, OrsonWelles! Given that Jack Benny's glory years were well and truly behind him by the time of the POD in 1966, I suppose you're asking whether or not he was able to appear in The Sunshine Boys, the role that won his hand-picked replacement, George Burns, an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor? Or if I could make him live longer? He did die at only 39 IOTL, after all...
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That made me laugh. I'm curious to know how film criticism is in this world. What with science fiction even more accepted and all.
Oh, and another thing: can you tell us who the Presidents are post-1986?
Since I know you're Canadian, happy Boxing Day!
Oh, and another thing: can you tell us who the Presidents are post-1986?
Since I know you're Canadian, happy Boxing Day!
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I assume film criticism in general is mostly OTL. I know Siskel and Ebert (or Ebert and Siskel) were mentioned several times already, and Ebert was always a supporter of science fiction in film.
I don't think that SF is more accepted ITTL, but the mainstream acceptance has occurred earlier in the US (after Star Trek ) than IOTL ( after Star Wars ). In the UK, it's going to be about the same since SF gained mainstream acceptance before the POD ( after Quatermas ).
On a separate, random seasonal subject - inspired by watching the Muppets Christmas Carol. Assuming that this film is made ITTL, who would get cast as Scrooge. Without OTL's British connection, they're more likely to cast an American actor rather than Michael Caine, but who could do the best job of playing the role without being upstaged by Kermit and Co?
Cheers,
Nigel
1. Just because The Muppet Show wasn't filmed in England ITTL doesn't mean they wouldn't look for a British actor to play a traditional British character. (Of course I could just be saying that because I like Michael Cain in general, and in this movie in particular)
2. That having been said I can think of three American actors that I think would work well with the Muppets: Leonard Nimoy could play it straight and probably give the closest feel to OTL's film, or if you want to go the opposite direction (they can't be upstaged by the Muppets, because they basically are Muppets) coin-toss between Shatner and Adam West.
Such an ignominious end for Doctor Who in this reality, definitely makes it just a "visit, don't live there" timeline - already was thanks to the different Supreme Court ruling on home recording, actually. I think the last creative team for the show here will not be getting even devil's advocate defenses like John Nathan Turner does IOTL, and for good reason.
As for a revival, presuming no butterflies affect his career I could see Russel T. Davies doing something similar to OTL and just revealing the Doctor was resurrected to fight the Time War ala the Master IOTL. Still, no New Adventure/Eighth Doctor novels could have a major impact, those still have a big influence on the tone and themes of the show, but something like them could still happen and as someone else said audio's are probably a certainty.
Also I actually feel bad for this timeline's BBC exec who cancelled it. Yes it was short-sighted - he should have just retooled it, Verity Lambert would have probably come back since she tried to get the rights IOTL back in the 90's - but it seems pretty clear there was no personal ax-grinding on their part like there was for Michael Grade and his cronies.
As for a revival, presuming no butterflies affect his career I could see Russel T. Davies doing something similar to OTL and just revealing the Doctor was resurrected to fight the Time War ala the Master IOTL. Still, no New Adventure/Eighth Doctor novels could have a major impact, those still have a big influence on the tone and themes of the show, but something like them could still happen and as someone else said audio's are probably a certainty.
Also I actually feel bad for this timeline's BBC exec who cancelled it. Yes it was short-sighted - he should have just retooled it, Verity Lambert would have probably come back since she tried to get the rights IOTL back in the 90's - but it seems pretty clear there was no personal ax-grinding on their part like there was for Michael Grade and his cronies.
On the whole, I don't think that the producers would have taken the step of actually killing off the Doctor to finish the series - they would have kept him alive just in case. It's a bit like the end of Blake's Seven where, in spite of the Kill-em All ending, the possibility was left open that at least Avon and Vila survived.
Also, I have to say that having the Doctor reveal his real name is a bit anachronistic. The whole business of the importance of the Doctor's name was built up by Steve Moffat for the Fiftieth anniversary - it really wasn't a concern in the classic series. There was initially a mystery about who the Doctor was, but that was really answered when the Time Lords were introduced. However apart from some jokes about his aliases (whether "John Smith" or "Doktor Von Wer") the importance of his real name was about the same as that of Spock's full name in Star Trek.
Cheers,
Nigel.
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I agree with you about Caine's performance, but Hollywood is quite willing to cast American actors as traditional British characters. For example, George C Scott played Scrooge in the 1984 adaption of the story.
I did consider Shatner myself, but you're right - Nimoy would be a good choice.
Cheers,
Nigel.