That Wacky Redhead

[British Republic]

Well I have the whole story so far and all I can say is that it is one of the most interesting TLs on AH.

However there are some points to be made.

Firstly Ted Turner could not get the rights to the Pre-1950s library since in 1962 in OTL (and ITTL since it is before the POD), Paramount sold those films to MCA (who later took over Universal).

I know you have stated one of the reasons why you don't want do a sequel is because you would have to write the death of TWR, but I diagree, you could say that she retired and don't state her again.

Also I would strongly recommend making one since the butterfiles she did by staying in the production business are too big to leave untold.

Also if the Lucas's win the "Lucasfilm vs Paramount" case overall, Would G+W keep the studio?

My personal suggestion is that Columbia and 20th Century Fox are going to enter Chapter 11, since Universal is owned by MCA, MGM by Seagram, Warner by Warner Communications and United Artists by Canwest. So while they would take major losses unless the owners sell up on the cheap, they will survive thus.

Also the question of "Should Desilu make films", well I know TWR would be reluctant, however filmaking is still to big to ignore sooner or later, even if is to make films based on their tv shows. Besides TWR could get someone else run that division.

Lastly, what has happened to Gerry Anderson ITTL?

 

[NCW8]

Lastly, what has happened to Gerry Anderson ITTL?

Well ITTL, the planned follow up series to UFO (called UFO:1999) was made instead of Space:1999. However, I'd also like to know what Anderson is doing in the 1980s ITTL - hopefully something better than Terrahawks.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[The Walkman]

Probably. Led Zeppelin formed in 1968. Sabbath in 1969. The POD, as I recall, was in 1966-1967. So, the elements leading to their formation would likely be the same. The butterflies from the POD aren't likely to affect them.

I was thinking the same thing. The question is: do the bands remain together? Ozzy was pretty...volatile, to say the least.

Also, given the more watered-down pop scene ITTL, both bands will probably have even more trouble than they did IOTL breaking into the "mainstream": Sabbath had no Top 40 hits whatsoever, and Zeppelin had only six. Their best outing was 1969's "Whole Lotta Love", which got to #4 on the Billboard charts (their ONLY top 10 hit).

But then, on the other hand, Zeppelin could become more successful here due to many of their songs' ties to mythology, which seems to be bigger ITTL.

black sABBAth?

Don't even go there.

 

[British Republic]

Well ITTL, the planned follow up series to UFO (called UFO:1999) was made instead of Space:1999. However, I'd also like to know what Anderson is doing in the 1980s ITTL - hopefully something better than Terrahawks.

Cheers,
Nigel.

If ATV/ITC is still in business (thanks to their possible sale of Elstree studios), then Anderson could continue the partnership with them.

Maybe a show based on Terrahawks with better production values.

What about a second series of Captain Scarlet?

 

[JSmith]

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We love Lucy! Today, in loving memory, we celebrate the birthday of Lucille Ball. Lucy, as President of Desilu Studios, chose to go against the advice of her Board of Directors and finance Star Trek. She believed that, like I Love Lucy, it had the potential to rerun far into the future. Lucy was one smart redhead.





And Wacky

 

[Brainbin]

As has been noted, today marks what would have been the 103rd Birthday of That Wacky Redhead herself, so happy birthday to her.

Forget all this talk about ABBA/FABB/Ali BABA/whatever they're called. I'm just concerned about if Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath still exist ITTL.

Probably. Led Zeppelin formed in 1968. Sabbath in 1969. The POD, as I recall, was in 1966-1967. So, the elements leading to their formation would likely be the same. The butterflies from the POD aren't likely to affect them.

Welcome aboard, Mr. E! Thanks for de-lurking in service of the thread

As to your question, The Walkman, since Queen has formed as it did IOTL, I think I can extend that same courtesy to Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath.

black sABBAth?

You have a highly gifted intelligence, Professor

Well I have the whole story so far and all I can say is that it is one of the most interesting TLs on AH.

Thank you very much for the kind words, British Republic, and welcome aboard!

Firstly Ted Turner could not get the rights to the Pre-1950s library since in 1962 in OTL (and ITTL since it is before the POD), Paramount sold those films to MCA (who later took over Universal).

Thank you very much for catching this - unfortunately, libraries tend to change hands as often as most people change their underwear.

I know you have stated one of the reasons why you don't want do a sequel is because you would have to write the death of TWR, but I diagree, you could say that she retired and don't state her again.

Also I would strongly recommend making one since the butterfiles she did by staying in the production business are too big to leave untold.

Although I appreciate your desire to see more of the TWR universe, the first rule of entertainment is to always leave the audience wanting more. I'm not saying I'll never write a sequel, but I honestly feel it would be best to end where I began. And honestly, although in the OP I foolishly said that the POD would merely a jumping-off point, I feel that the narrative is much stronger with a throughline centred on TWR, and that it would be irrevocably diminished without her.

Also the question of "Should Desilu make films", well I know TWR would be reluctant, however filmaking is still to big to ignore sooner or later, even if is to make films based on their tv shows. Besides TWR could get someone else run that division.

Desilu tried on several occasions to break into moviemaking IOTL and was never successful. Insanity, as we all know, is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Getting into the movie business is expensive, and so is staying in the movie business. Desilu rose from the ashes of one of the major studios of the Golden Age, and as you mention, several others are in mortal peril. Desilu's new ventures have much lower barriers to entry and a greatly reduced inherent risk.

Lastly, what has happened to Gerry Anderson ITTL?

Well ITTL, the planned follow up series to UFO (called UFO:1999) was made instead of Space:1999. However, I'd also like to know what Anderson is doing in the 1980s ITTL - hopefully something better than Terrahawks.

If ATV/ITC is still in business (thanks to their possible sale of Elstree studios), then Anderson could continue the partnership with them.

Maybe a show based on Terrahawks with better production values.

What about a second series of Captain Scarlet?

I promise that the next time I return to British telly, I'll be discussing the career and works of Gerry Anderson.

I was thinking the same thing. The question is: do the bands remain together? Ozzy was pretty...volatile, to say the least.

Indeed, he could have just as easily died of a drug overdose as Robin Williams did ITTL. He's probably just as likely to "leave" Black Sabbath by that means as by any other. Someone that unstable isn't likely to be predisposed to a long-term commitment. And it's a shame, because I have a soft spot for Ozzy Osbourne, but c'est la vie.

Also, given the more watered-down pop scene ITTL, both bands will probably have even more trouble than they did IOTL breaking into the "mainstream": Sabbath had no Top 40 hits whatsoever, and Zeppelin had only six. Their best outing was 1969's "Whole Lotta Love", which got to #4 on the Billboard charts (their ONLY top 10 hit).

But then, on the other hand, Zeppelin could become more successful here due to many of their songs' ties to mythology, which seems to be bigger ITTL.

I suspect that Zep would be more proggy and less bluesy ITTL, which hopefully lead to less plagiarism on their part. (But I wouldn't hold my breath.)

We love Lucy! Today, in loving memory, we celebrate the birthday of Lucille Ball. Lucy, as President of Desilu Studios, chose to go against the advice of her Board of Directors and finance Star Trek. She believed that, like I Love Lucy, it had the potential to rerun far into the future. Lucy was one smart redhead.

And Wacky

Indeed she was

 

[The Professor]

You have a highly gifted intelligence, Professor

You flatter me . It's just a lower level of resistance to the common pun

Looking forward to the update already

 

[British Republic]

Thank you very much for the kind words, British Republic, and welcome aboard!

And let this timeline continue to go where no one has gone before!

Thank you very much for catching this - unfortunately, libraries tend to change hands as often as most people change their underwear.

The fate of the MGM/UA Library is going to change with no Turner buying and selling the company (while keeping the Pre-1986 MGM Films and Pre-1950 WB films) with United Artists in the hands of CanWest and Turner likely to buy Paramount.

Speaking of which, will Canwest become a major media corporation in America as it was in Canada, will it survive to this day ITTL or go bust as in OTL?

Although I appreciate your desire to see more of the TWR universe, the first rule of entertainment is to always leave the audience wanting more. I'm not saying I'll never write a sequel, but I honestly feel it would be best to end where I began. And honestly, although in the OP I foolishly said that the POD would merely a jumping-off point, I feel that the narrative is much stronger with a throughline centred on TWR, and that it would be irrevocably diminished without her.

I understand where you are coming from, but leaving at 1986 leaves a lot of questions unanswered, also from my experence of reading this thread, it has gone well beyond "WI Lucille Ball refused G+W's offer for Desilu Productions", especially since it shows that America and the Commonwealth are a very different place compared to ITTL for example.

Desilu tried on several occasions to break into moviemaking IOTL and was never successful. Insanity, as we all know, is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Getting into the movie business is expensive, and so is staying in the movie business. Desilu rose from the ashes of one of the major studios of the Golden Age, and as you mention, several others are in mortal peril. Desilu's new ventures have much lower barriers to entry and a greatly reduced inherent risk.

However in the Early 80s (ITTL), things are very different, mainly because the major studios (Columbia and Fox especially) are looking very shaky financially. It would not be to hard financially to get into the business since they are facing bankruptcy and thus if they DO want to enter the film business (if only to make films based on their tv series), this is one of the few chances they have and it is unlikely to be repeated again.

I promise that the next time I return to British telly, I'll be discussing the career and works of Gerry Anderson.

How involved is TWR on that?

 

[Yvonmukluk]

Indeed, he could have just as easily died of a drug overdose as Robin Williams did ITTL. He's probably just as likely to "leave" Black Sabbath by that means as by any other. Someone that unstable isn't likely to be predisposed to a long-term commitment. And it's a shame, because I have a soft spot for Ozzy Osbourne, but c'est la vie.

Well, I'm pretty sure the dying by drug overdose at least isn't that likely, since he is in fact a mutant. Explains how he's lived so long in OTL...

 

[NCW8]

If ATV/ITC is still in business (thanks to their possible sale of Elstree studios), then Anderson could continue the partnership with them.

Having Lew Grade keep control of ATV and retain the ITV Midlands franchise would help. However, he didn't manage that IOTL even with the success of the Muppet Show, so it's going to be harder ITTL.

Maybe a show based on Terrahawks with better production values.

Better production values would help, however I'd say that the main problem with the show was that it didn't take itself seriously. Since it had a similar premise as Captain Scarlet and UFO, it came across as a second rate parody of those shows.

Cheers,
Nigel

 

[British Republic]

Brainbin, if you want any ideas for what Gerry Anderson could do after Terrahawks, I suggest he should do a remake of Thunderbirds.

In OTL in 1976 during the production of the 2nd Season of Space: 1999 proposed a series called Rescue 4, it was not really a Thunderbirds remake, rather it was a proposed live action series using the original concepts of Thunderbirds, story ideas and even storyboards where created and the idea was presented to the NBC Network at that time (I would have assumed ITC would have got involved), but the network backed off. Perhaps TWR might be involved in this process.

In the Mid-80s Gerry Anderson was planning a sort of remake called “T-Force”, it would have the same basic format and characters, but there would have been differences, such as the base being a massive submarine rather than a island, Thunderbird 2 being bigger and Lady Penelope having a Pink Porsche (rather than a Rolls-Royce). Since no one was willing to finance such a project it did not happen.

In 1993, Gerry Anderson revised and revived the idea and renamed it GFI (Gee Force Intergalactic), this would have the same basic idea, but apart from that it would have different characters (A Professor, 2 of his best students and some other people, as well as some robots named after historic world leaders), a different base (in a Asteroid), different vehicles (including a 250,000 tonne spacecraft), it was (unlike the original series) authorised by the government at the time.

They did actually begin production (it was to be cell-animated with some GCI) and the scripts where half done, however the animation done by the Moscow studio was not good enough for broadcast, so it had done be done in the UK, which meant that the budget could not cover it this the project was scrapped.
You have already established that UFO had a second series (with the title UFO: 1999), but you have not said if there was a 3rd series. Nerveless that means that The Protectors (a live action series he did in 1971-1972) does not happen.

You have also seems to have butterflied Space: 1999, which could mean that UFO lasts for another few series after the 2nd one am I correct?

Also with the changes of what is filmed at ATV’s Elstree Studios, does it mean that ATV/ITC sell the studios (as it has been speculated)? Because that will mean that ATV Midlands does not become Central Independent Television, which in turn means that ITC is still in business as long as Grade is around, combine that with a more successful UFO series, it would mean that the Anderson-Grade partnership (dating from the production of Supercar in 1960) will last beyond the mid-70s and maybe into the 80s.

Thus it would mean a different Post-UFO career for Anderson and thus the “T-Force” proposal might get made, beyond that, who knows?

Going back a bit however we come to the beginning of the POD in question (Late 1966), Thunderbirds was nearing the end of its run after Grade (cocked up) any sale to one of the US Networks (ABC, CBS and NBC all placed bids on the rights), thus without the money from that sale, Thunderbirds was not viable financially (it was a very expensive show to make by British TV standards, that is why there was a lot of American influence in the plot and characters).

Since it is too late to establish any involvement by TWR over this matter (as well as the fact you have not established what Anderson did between Thunderbirds and UFO), I am going to assume that Captain Scarlet is the next series to be made by his company.

Now what I want to ask is this, would it be possible by any non-ASB POD for there to be further episodes of Captain Scarlet, the reason I am asking this is partly because the series ended without any conclusion between the struggle between the Humans on Earth and the Mysterons on Mars, secondly not many episodes where made compared to the other Supermarionation series and lastly since I consider the series to the final transition by Anderson from puppet based shows to live action ones.

This would mean that the following happens:

1: Joe 90 is butterflied and The Secret Agent happens as OTL

2: The Secret Agent is butterflied and Joe 90 is made later than in OTL

3: Both Joe 90 and The Secret Agent are butterflied (this is the most likely option)

Since I prefer number 3, this is how Anderson’s filmography looks like since the start of the TWR POD:

Thunderbirds (1965-1966)

Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons (1967-1968)

UFO (1969-?)

Also, maybe you can have TWR co-producing some of Andersons series and maybe even form a partnership with Anderson (and maybe Grade as well).

Lastly, if ATV Midlands does become Central Independent Television, maybe you can have TWR buy ITC Entertainment (and thus the ATV/ITC archive) and at the very least, allow her company to expand into the UK market as well as the American one.

PS: Do you have any proposals on what you plan to include when you return to British TV? I could help you on that front.

I could also help you in relation to how the major studios deal with “the trial of the century” and (if you plan a sequel), how the legacy of TWR plays out.

 

[British Republic]

Having Lew Grade keep control of ATV and retain the ITV Midlands franchise would help. However, he didn't manage that IOTL even with the success of the Muppet Show, so it's going to be harder ITTL.

However the reason the IBA forced Grade to give up the Midlands franchise was over the fact the programs for the region where produced at Elstree, nothing more. Selling off those studios and moving it to the Midlands would have been better.

Better production values would help, however I'd say that the main problem with the show was that it didn't take itself seriously. Since it had a similar premise as Captain Scarlet and UFO, it came across as a second rate parody of those shows.

I understand...

 

[NCW8]

There were a lot of changes to British tv in the early Eighties OTL, and it's likely that similar changes would occur ITTL. Some shake up of the ITV franchises is likely to occur around this time as some of the companies (e.g. Southern TV) had become rather complacent. An introduction of breakfast TV would probably see ITN winning the franchise ITTL, which is unfortunately more boring than OTL's TV-AM.

Edit: ATV getting rid of Elstree was due to it being preassured to becone a more midlands based organisation. Those pressures are likely to occur ITTL as well.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Dan1988]

@British Republic - just remember that Brainbin isn't writing a utopia.

 

[British Republic]

@British Republic - just remember that Brainbin isn't writing a utopia.

I know he has said that (I have read all of it to date), I was suggesting what he can do to improve Gerry Andersons record on television.

If he does go along with my ideas, it would not be a utopia for Joe 90 fans.

Also, what would stop George Harrison from funding Life of Brian as in OTL?

 

[British Republic]

There were a lot of changes to British tv in the early Eighties OTL, and it's likely that similar changes would occur ITTL. Some shake up of the ITV franchises is likely to occur around this time as some of the companies (e.g. Southern TV) had become rather complacent. An introduction of breakfast TV would probably see ITN winning the franchise ITTL, which is unfortunately more boring than OTL's TV-AM.

Would Breakfast TV be introduced at this time ITTL?

Also would Westward and Southern Telelvision endure after 1980 or does it still happen?

Edit: ATV getting rid of Elstree was due to it being preassured to becone a more midlands based organisation. Those pressures are likely to occur ITTL as well.

Would it be posibble for ATV Midlands to sell Elstree before the IBA forced its hand (as in OTL), thus keeping ACC/ATV/ITC intact after 1980?

 

[NCW8]

Would Breakfast TV be introduced at this time ITTL?

Also would Westward and Southern Telelvision endure after 1980 or does it still happen?

Would it be posibble for ATV Midlands to sell Elstree before the IBA forced its hand (as in OTL), thus keeping ACC/ATV/ITC intact after 1980?

All very good questions. There was a trend to increase the amount of broadcast time IOTL - the daytime schedules were practically empty in the Seventies. I suspect that Breakfast TV was one of those American innovations that was going to be introduced into the UK sooner or later.

As for Southern and Westward TV, as I understand it, one of the criticisms of both companies OTL was that they didn't have local ownership. If that isn't such an issue ITTL then they ould continue for longer. The IBA not insisting on localism would also benefit ATV of course.

Going back to Anderson, I do like the idea of a live action version of Thunderbirds. However I do wonder whether he might get involved in ATV's plans to make a competitor for Doctor Who. IOTL they made Sapphire and Steel, but in TTL they're more likely to want to make a show with more spectacular special effects, which is where Anderson would be useful.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[THE OBSERVER]

How much longer until the new update? BTW, didn't notice it at first, but IOTL, the stars of "The Patriot" ITTL, played characters who used to be married on "Modern Family" IOTL. Brainbin, I'm wondering if you knew that reference when you typed it up.

 

[THE OBSERVER]

On second thought, you did know. Silly me.

 

[The Walkman]

Never thought I'd be saying this: a moment of silence for one Mr. Robin Williams. RIP...in our timeline.