To go waaaay back to The Next Voyage, I've finally gotten around to looking at some of the other ships to be featured in the miniseries. So once again, I present a screenshot from my CED collection, as Captain Sulu's USS Artemis makes a rendezvous with Captain Thelin's USS Ares.

14336290221_82afe4584d_o.png
 
I wonder if the paranormal is a possible subject for SF tv series at this time ITTL. There was a short-lived BBC Series called The Omega Factor that was made in 1979 in OTL. Maybe it could have a longer run ITTL.


Cheers,
Nigel.

The Omega Factor is brilliant. I am super please you brought it up as this as I think it would be better suited to the escapist atmosphere of this TL.

ITTL however Big Finish are doing a follow up series on Audio
 
As you may have noticed, nixonshead has been working on more TTL Star Trek renders! The Artemis/Ares design you see in the illustration above (properly an Olympus-class frigate design) is a wholly original creation of his, though scrutinized by myself and e of pi. You'll be seeing more of them in the next few days, including proper schematics of the Artemis, and comparisons with the Enterprise refit model used in The Next Voyage. He may also have a few more surprises in store...

Please let him know what you think of his design and his images! He worked really hard on them and he deserves some feedback from my readers :)

It might be the nature of such things - when I think of my childhood, one of the things I remember as important to it is a Yugoslavian animated series made between 1967 and 1978. Evidently some things just stick around to have great influence on children far beyond their making.
Indeed - and Grouchio mentioned one such property earlier: Looney Tunes. Only now are the original cartoon shorts becoming hard to find on the tube - for nearly a half-century, they defined the childhood of multiple generations. I find it fitting that many of my oldest readers, born in the 1950s, and my youngest, born in the 1990s, are united by their shared memories of having watched Bugs Bunny (and Tweety, or the Road Runner, or whatever their incarnation of the show was called) as children.

Thank you for the link to those delightful posters, Your Imperial Majesty! And to be honest, I'm rather curious as to how those critiques read...

In our universe steampunk came about as an extension of cyberpunk. Perhaps in this universe it's the opposite and it progresses from fantasy first and when played out for the better part of a decade only then is cyberpunk created as a reaction.
To be honest, I was thinking more of the Japanese aesthetic - fantasy with technological bells and whistles - and since Japanese cultural influence is now just beginning to reach the West ITTL, that might have an impact. I'm reminded of the early Final Fantasy games, in particular. IV/II had airships, tanks, robots, giant mecha, spaceships, and lunar bases - VI/III was straight-up steampunk. Of course, one wonders how much Western cyberpunk/steampunk trends influenced Japan in return.

I'm not sure if the triggers for steampunk are as strong in TTL either--there is a nostalgic, When Great Men Bestrode The Earth Having Extraordinary Adventures feel to it in reaction to the modern sense that Big Things can't be built anymore and everything is decided by little grey men in committees who say it isn't cost effective. What with TTL having more megastructure projects and a generally more optimistic mood to it, the triggers are weaker. I'm sure there will be a different 'retro reimagined' setting that becomes popular, but I'm not sure what. 1920-30s dieselpunk, perhaps (as seen in the cartoon TaleSpin in OTL for instance).

With a lot of artdeco features? Perhaps spawning metropolis fanfic? metropunk?

Yeah, that's a good comparison. Kind of like the Tim Burton Batman style in some ways.
I like this idea. Not to mention that the first two Indiana Jones movies were set in the interwar period, of course. And I have a general affinity for 1920s-30s art deco anyway, because it's so strikingly reminiscent of the Golden Age of Hollywood. It's also an era with some mystery and romance to it in general. My only concern is that it's a bit of a leap from medieval-based fantasy to a nearly-modern setting with advanced technology - one doesn't strike me as evolving naturally from the other.

I think the Professor was considering a somewhat earlier Metropolis than Gotham City. More Fritz Lang than Tim Burton.
Welcome aboard, su_liam! As Nigel says, the art design for Batman was influenced by a combination of Art Deco and Tim Burton's "house" style, based heavily on German expressionism. This combination is sometimes referred to as "dark deco" and was also used (though streamlined) in the 1990s animated series.

I wonder if the paranormal is a possible subject for SF tv series at this time ITTL. There was a short-lived BBC Series called The Omega Factor that was made in 1979 in OTL. Maybe it could have a longer run ITTL.
Okay, now be honest - are you trying to get me to rescue every short-lived genre show on British television in this era? :p

Hmmm. Would -punk even be used in TTL? What could be used instead?
Well, the -punk suffix comes from the focus on lowlifes and the nihilistic atmosphere common to many cyberpunk works (with steampunk and dieselpunk having the same "cool, edgy" vibe to them). Mid-century works with the same attitude came to be known as noir, of course, so if cyberpunk does emerge ITTL, I imagine it might be called "cyber-noir". The problem is, that term wouldn't really fit a more optimistic genre - perhaps the "-tech" suffix? If we're going for interwar, it could be "dieseltech" or "decotech", Victorian Era would be "steamtech", and pre-industrial would be "geartech" or maybe "siegetech". "Tech" was a popular suffix in the OTL 1980s, after all.

The Professor said:
Paranormal could be a possible way to go to appear less SF derivative.
Perhaps the Omega Factor would indeed be an earlier X Files

The Omega Factor is brilliant. I am super please you brought it up as this as I think it would be better suited to the escapist atmosphere of this TL.
Well, gentlemen, if all three of you are sold on this notion, then I will surely have to consider it when the time comes to revisit British telly! :)
 

Thande

Donor
Nice work, Nixonshead. That design looks right without being too derivative like a lot of the fan ones are.

I like this idea. Not to mention that the first two Indiana Jones movies were set in the interwar period, of course. And I have a general affinity for 1920s-30s art deco anyway, because it's so strikingly reminiscent of the Golden Age of Hollywood. It's also an era with some mystery and romance to it in general. My only concern is that it's a bit of a leap from medieval-based fantasy to a nearly-modern setting with advanced technology - one doesn't strike me as evolving naturally from the other.

Yeah, Indiana Jones is very much in the spirit of it but without having too much in the way of actual exaggerated "-punk" stuff.

As for the difference in those two settings, it can be a virtue rather than a fault - a different genre can come about as a reaction to the first. The big studios likely wouldn't take the risk, but you could have a small film become an unexpected hit and then set the trends for more mainstream ones (like how Mad Max and Evil Dead popularised the after-the-end and zombie apocalypse genres).
 
Praise must be given to Nixonshead for his works of quality, even if I do not feel qualified to give any proper feedback.
I like this idea. Not to mention that the first two Indiana Jones movies were set in the interwar period, of course. And I have a general affinity for 1920s-30s art deco anyway, because it's so strikingly reminiscent of the Golden Age of Hollywood. It's also an era with some mystery and romance to it in general. My only concern is that it's a bit of a leap from medieval-based fantasy to a nearly-modern setting with advanced technology - one doesn't strike me as evolving naturally from the other.
I could see a natural evolution from medieval-based fantasy to a nearly-modern setting with magic instead of advanced technology (once you've 'generalised' magic and made it something fairly common - D&D seems to be 'OTL' enough that I'm assuming at least that particular branch of medieval-based fantasy has had it happen - going to industrialising magic is a rather natural step), complete with art deco aesthetics, though having it 'break out' into general culture would be harder.
 
Please let him know what you think of his design and his images! He worked really hard on them and he deserves some feedback from my readers :)

They're certainly very impressive. Any plans to create images from Journey of the Force ?


Okay, now be honest - are you trying to get me to rescue every short-lived genre show on British television in this era? :p

Alright, you don't have to rescue Come Back Mrs Noah :D


Well, gentlemen, if all three of you are sold on this notion, then I will surely have to consider it when the time comes to revisit British telly! :)


Seriously, with the greater popularity of SF TV series ITTL and the success of selling Doctor Who to the States, there's going to be some attempts by both the BBC and ITV to repeat that success. That should result in a couple of series lasting longer than they did OTL, even if they don't actually penetrate the US market.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
Thank you for the link to those delightful posters, Your Imperial Majesty! And to be honest, I'm rather curious as to how those critiques read...
Actually, I had an idea; not anything to propose, but a thought. With nixonhead's CGI for sets, and someone's photoshop skills, you could conceivably create a poster book of scenes from "Star Trek: The Next Voyage".
 
Actually, I had an idea; not anything to propose, but a thought. With nixonhead's CGI for sets, and someone's photoshop skills, you could conceivably create a poster book of scenes from "Star Trek: The Next Voyage".

The thought had crossed my mind too! At the moment my in-tray is pretty full, but I might look into doing this at some point - unless someone else beats me to it of course :D

Speaking of images, here's another, this time of the Artemis and Enterprise orbiting Gaia.

14342514301_851297629d_o.png
 
Yeah...along those lines, what has the effect been on the rise of the slasher flick? Do films such as Black Christmas, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and Halloween have a place here?

My guess would be less of these as there's less of the urban fear that goes with increased pessimism. But no doubt there will be a niche.
 
Yeah, Indiana Jones is very much in the spirit of it but without having too much in the way of actual exaggerated "-punk" stuff.
Very true - there's a naivete and sense of wonderment that almost makes it feel as if it was made back then - that's the George Lucas Throwback for you.

Thande said:
As for the difference in those two settings, it can be a virtue rather than a fault - a different genre can come about as a reaction to the first. The big studios likely wouldn't take the risk, but you could have a small film become an unexpected hit and then set the trends for more mainstream ones (like how Mad Max and Evil Dead popularised the after-the-end and zombie apocalypse genres).
That does seem the most plausible way for the genre to emerge - a sleeper hit followed by scores of imitators, such as all the adventure films that followed Raiders.

I could see a natural evolution from medieval-based fantasy to a nearly-modern setting with magic instead of advanced technology (once you've 'generalised' magic and made it something fairly common - D&D seems to be 'OTL' enough that I'm assuming at least that particular branch of medieval-based fantasy has had it happen - going to industrialising magic is a rather natural step), complete with art deco aesthetics, though having it 'break out' into general culture would be harder.
Hmmm. Intriguing supposition - in other words, a fantasy setting breaks free from Medieval Stasis and continues into the industrial age? I do think that would be fairly likely, at least in isolated instances, and that sort of thing has happened IOTL. But I agree that it's an uphill climb in terms of becoming mainstream.

Any plans to create images from Journey of the Force?
They're at the bottom of a very long list, and new things keep getting added above them. In all likelihood, since McQuarrie is still involved ITTL, they'll be very triangular ;)

NCW8 said:
Seriously, with the greater popularity of SF TV series ITTL and the success of selling Doctor Who to the States, there's going to be some attempts by both the BBC and ITV to repeat that success. That should result in a couple of series lasting longer than they did OTL, even if they don't actually penetrate the US market.
True, although this trend is likely to have a bigger impact on properties of the early-1970s (such as Space: 1999) as opposed to those of the later 1970s.

Actually, I had an idea; not anything to propose, but a thought. With nixonhead's CGI for sets, and someone's photoshop skills, you could conceivably create a poster book of scenes from "Star Trek: The Next Voyage".
The thought had crossed my mind too! At the moment my in-tray is pretty full, but I might look into doing this at some point - unless someone else beats me to it of course :D
As nixonshead says, his schedule is very busy at the moment - for one thing, he works full-time (and not as a graphic artist), and though he's been very gracious in donating some of his time to TWR, he also does the art for his own timeline, Kolyma's Shadow: An Alternate Space Race (which I recommend for any of you who are interested in the early Space Age) as well as Eyes Turned Skyward, where his portfolio most deservedly won the superlative Turtledove for Best Overall Artwork.

However, he might have something special on the way that isn't a screencap from The Next Voyage... and that's all I plan to say about that for now :cool:

I was thinking something. Was George Romero able to make his zombie movies ITTL?

Yeah...along those lines, what has the effect been on the rise of the slasher flick? Do films such as Black Christmas, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and Halloween have a place here?

My guess would be less of these as there's less of the urban fear that goes with increased pessimism. But no doubt there will be a niche.
My view is that horror tends to be classier ITTL, more psychological and atmospheric as opposed to visceral. The Exorcist (as directed by Bogdanovich as opposed to Friedkin) was more stylized, less gratuitous than the OTL version. And the reality in a TL where the hippie mindset lingers (and is vindicated, to an extent, by the cessation of the overseas quagmire), we're very likely to see a more "European" viewpoint emerge as to what is acceptable on the big screen - more nudity, less violence. Even IOTL, nudity was relatively plentiful in the 1970s and 1980s in comparison to today - but that trend has faded, whereas the violence has remained prominent. Obviously there are still slasher precedents such as Psycho to influence future filmmakers, but there is a blowback against that as well, with the "video nasty" scandals focusing almost entirely on violence.
 
I havent replied to this before?

How odd.

Anyway, is Nixonshead's Enterprise supposed to be a refit or just, "the Enterprise always looked like this?"

So instead of cyberpunk might we have cyber-cliffhangers or cyberpulp? I'm trying to imagine the adventures of Shōsa Kusanagi in a less pessimistic milieu and my imagination is failing...
 
I could see a natural evolution from medieval-based fantasy to a nearly-modern setting with magic instead of advanced technology (once you've 'generalised' magic and made it something fairly common - D&D seems to be 'OTL' enough that I'm assuming at least that particular branch of medieval-based fantasy has had it happen - going to industrialising magic is a rather natural step), complete with art deco aesthetics, though having it 'break out' into general culture would be harder.

Maybe Randal Garrett's Lord Darcy series could become more mainstream - the first couple of stories were written before the POD. Its roughly Victorian level of magic-based technology gives it something of a Steampunk feel.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
Anyway, is Nixonshead's Enterprise supposed to be a refit or just, "the Enterprise always looked like this?"

It's a refit, designed by Matt Jefferies, for The Next Voyage miniseries.

Brainbin said:
The Enterprise refit was largely intended to introduce a more streamlined appearance for the ship, which was created (as the original design had been) by Matt Jefferies. [10] The Excelsior and the Artemis were intended to be distinguishable from the Enterprise on sight, but (befitting their joint status as Federation starships) were very similar in overall appearance.

<snip>

[10] Jefferies also designed the “refit” Enterprise intended for use in Phase II (and later The Motion Picture); it was a far more conservative redesign than some of the radical proposals put forward by others. ITTL, the design actually hews closer to that of the original series, more akin to this design.

This description was the starting point, with much back-and-forth with Brainbin and e of pi to come to the final result.
 
Maybe Randal Garrett's Lord Darcy series could become more mainstream - the first couple of stories were written before the POD. Its roughly Victorian level of magic-based technology gives it something of a Steampunk feel.

Cheers,
Nigel.

More stories in that sort of setting would be nice. I love the Darcy books.
 
I could see a natural evolution from medieval-based fantasy to a nearly-modern setting with magic instead of advanced technology (once you've 'generalised' magic and made it something fairly common - D&D seems to be 'OTL' enough that I'm assuming at least that particular branch of medieval-based fantasy has had it happen - going to industrialising magic is a rather natural step), complete with art deco aesthetics, though having it 'break out' into general culture would be harder.

You mean something like that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Dragon%27s_Daughter ?

It was one of my favourite fantasy/"magicpunk" novels. "His dark materials" would be also good if it would follow the tone of the first book and not go toward strange author's quarrell with religion. Just do an alternative world where magic is part of technology.
 
True, although this trend is likely to have a bigger impact on properties of the early-1970s (such as Space: 1999) as opposed to those of the later 1970s.

Maybe, but I can't help wondering what Lew Grade has been up to ITTL. He was very keen to sell his shows into the American market. After failing with Thunderbirds and Space 1999 he was successful with The Muppet Show. Now ITTL he doesn't have this success, so what does he do instead ? One possibility would be to try and make Sapphire and Steel more appealing for a US audience - perhaps by casting an American actress as Sapphire. David McCallum would probably be considered to be well known enough in the States thanks to his role in The Man from U.N.C.L.E., so he's still a good candidate to play Steel.

As for the BBC, well I think that the long term effect of the Yank Years will be that Doctor Who disappears from the screens earlier than in OTL. That means that they might be looking for a replacement in the early Eighties.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
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