That Wacky Redhead

[Grouchio]

How did Looney Tunes fare ITTL?

 

[NCW8]

Was this in the era of the original late-1930s release? Apparently Snow White got an adults-only rating in South Africa at the time, if you can believe it. It's definitely the kind of movie that can - and no doubt often does - give little kids nightmares. I, for one, am still haunted by the scene of the Wicked Queen's transformation into the Old Hag.

That's right. Strangely, they didn't have any objection to him watching Things to Come.

Thank you for the suggestions! Having not grown up with the Carry On films I can't say I'm too familiar with the oeuvre of Kenneth Williams, though I do know him through the sketches of a renowned impressionist. (Hmmm, I wonder if I could get him a part for Prydain - or, rather, multiple parts.)

Williams is best known for the Carry On films, but I think that the radio series demonstrate his vocal talents a bit better.

It might be a bit early for Chris Barrie - he was only just starting his career in 1982 OTL. He appeared in the 1983 radio series Son of Cliché(written by Rob Grant and Doug Naylor), but I haven't been able to find out whether he also appeared in the 1981 series Cliché.

Definitely not by 1986, and not starring David Bowie - did you know that Michael Jackson was up for the part of the Goblin King IOTL? What a movie that would have been...

And full of unfortuante implications. Helena Bonham Carter also auditioned for the part of Sarah, which would also have produced an interesting movie.

The animation quality is considerably better than it was for the OTL film, fortunately. The rotoscoping in particular is much more judiciously used.

Rotoscoping is one of those techniques that can be used badly - especially if it's being used to cut costs - but can also be effective. For example, in the video for Take On Me by A-Ha.

I like that idea. The dense canopies would also explain the lack of melanin - although the general paleness of most Vulcans (who do live in the desert) would be a major plot hole if that were indeed proferred as an explanation for the blue skin. The hue of the blue pigment might be a social indicator of "race", much as the concentration of melanin is in humans, though I doubt we'd see any pure white Andorians ITTL (unless they have some kind of albinism).

I thought that the pure white Andorians were an artifact of Hal Sutherland's colour blindness affecting the way Thelin appeared in Yesteryear.


Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[nixonshead]

You know the funniest part of that clip? "The Phantom Menace was eighteen months ago, Tim!" They should have Simon Pegg remake that scene in 2017 and reuse all the dialogue verbatim except for swapping out "months" for "years" - it would still ring just as true.

I’d actually be more tempted to adapt it to “Star Trek Into Darkness was 12 months ago!!” “It still hurts! He wanted a Keenser doll..!”

The dense canopies would also explain the lack of melanin - although the general paleness of most Vulcans (who do live in the desert) would be a major plot hole if that were indeed proferred as an explanation for the blue skin.

I just thought all jungle-dwelling aliens are blue The nocturnal idea is interesting though, and could fit in nicely with the echo-location antennae idea. I’m not sure if antennae would actually be useful in echo-location, but biological plausibility has never been too strict in Trek.

I've noticed this OTL nomenclature debate in my own research, and I must ask: why not Andoria? Tellar (Prime) as opposed to Tellaria I can understand, because they're the Tellarites as opposed to the Tellarians. But by that rationale, surely if the Andorians lived on Andor, then they would be Andorites, would they not?

To be honest, I have no idea, it’s just an old prejudice on my part (and so has no place in Trek!) I think it’s simply a case that “Andor” got a lot of usage in fanon (and I think a mention in TNG or DS9 at some point) for many years, then Berman and Braga ignored that precedent (as with so much else) in Enterprise. There have been ret-con attempts to say Andoria is a moon orbiting the gas-giant Andor, but I think that's fanon only. ITTL it could be amusing to have it go the other way, with the fans moaning that it should be Andoria when TPTB call it “Andor”

 

[The Professor]

One question, Professor: do you mean hive-mind aliens, or just eusocial aliens, in the vein of bees or ants?

Hmmm, now that you mention it, both
The closest we had to the former were the Borg and they became too much zombiefiers than hiveminders
I don't recall any latter. Even the Xindi in Ent didn't seem like hives

 

[Daibhid C]

Personally, the biggest blow I got from that update was the lack of The Muppet Movie and sequels.

I'd really like to see Battle of the Trees and The Broken Crystal though.

Now that is just crying out for casting suggestions. Firstly, how about Kenneth Williams. At about this time OTL, he provided all of the voices for the cartoon Willow the Wisp. He'd be a good candidate to play several small roles and fill out the cast, much as he did in Hancock's Half Hour and Round the Horne. It might be fun to get Hugh Paddick as well, but I doubt they would sneak in a line such as "Hello, my name's Doli and this is my friend Gurgi".

He'd make a dolly Doli!

 

[NCW8]

He'd make a dolly Doli!

Bona ! He's got all the Polari, ain't he ?


Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Time slip]

Does Frank Oz co-direct The Broken Crystal with Henson? They both directed The Dark Crystal in OTL.

 

[e of pi]

To be honest, I have no idea, it’s just an old prejudice on my part (and so has no place in Trek!) I think it’s simply a case that “Andor” got a lot of usage in fanon (and I think a mention in TNG or DS9 at some point) for many years, then Berman and Braga ignored that precedent (as with so much else) in Enterprise. There have been ret-con attempts to say Andoria is a moon orbiting the gas-giant Andor, but I think that's fanon only. ITTL it could be amusing to have it go the other way, with the fans moaning that it should be Andoria when TPTB call it “Andor”

When I was looking this over while talking about it with Brainbin, I turned up this Trek BBS thread. From this, I derive the following aparent series of events:

1) Fanon coalesced around "Andor," partially as the result of a few "reference book" style things. However, the main production team was unaware of this.
2) The name of the homeworld went unused in TNG, so there was lots of time for fanon to calcify
3) DS9 uses "Andoria" in one episode, receives a ton of hatemail, and then switches to "Andor" in another episode. Not sure if they used it further afterwards.
4) ENT sets out to deliberately "solve" the problem when they happen to do their Andorian episodes, and has it be a moon orbiting a gas giant. Apparently confirmed as intent from the writers, though ambiguous onscreen.

So that's all well and good. What does it mean for TWR? I have no clue. The RPG books fill slot (1) on this list ITWR, while the following events depends on how much Desilu follows or disregards/ignores the game canon for any future Trek projects. Brainbin insists on not telling me if there'll be anything else for Trek, much less what, so...I don't know, hence my joking suggestion of "none of the above". How about, "Andorras"?

 

[Andrew T]

Another smashing update, Brainbin. And, since no one's asked it, I'll be the first:

Cast as Conan the Barbarian was Dolph Lundgren, a newcomer and martial artist who had primarily been working as a model and commercial actor. He was only 24 years old during principal photography. Born in Sweden in 1957, he was a tall, muscular, blue-eyed blond – very much the personification of the Nordic superman common to pulp fiction of this sort.

I don't expect you to reveal the fate of The Terminator early (although casting for the movie should be underway by "now" ITTL, so you could if you wanted to....), but IOTL, Schwarzenegger was already in Hollywood, having starred in Stay Hungry (with Jeff Bridges! and Sally Field! -- and yes, inspiring the later Twisted Sister album), and eagerly trying out for roles in film and TV.

So, inquiring minds want to know: Is Arnold still an actor in TWR?

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

Although the fantasy genre lent itself well to animation, it was by no means limited to it. Journey of the Force had been as big an influence on the fantasy boom, and it having been based on pulp fiction and the film serials of the Golden Age was an inspiration in the decision to adapt Robert E. Howard’s Conan the Barbarian to the big screen. Conan was a far more visceral, up-close-and-personal experience than the more sweeping, epic Journey of the Force and Lord of the Rings properties, telling the story of one man and his personal vendettas (for lack of a better word) as opposed to his involvement in a larger story. Cast as Conan the Barbarian was Dolph Lundgren, a newcomer and martial artist who had primarily been working as a model and commercial actor. He was only 24 years old during principal photography. [9] Born in Sweden in 1957, he was a tall, muscular, blue-eyed blond – very much the personification of the Nordic superman common to pulp fiction of this sort. To avoid the unfortunate implications of such casting (and to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Journey of the Force, which had been recognized for its diverse supporting cast [10]), Conan’s allies were deliberately cast across racial lines – many of whom were also younger unknowns. Producers deliberately sought a “young Samuel L. Jackson type” and a “young Bruce Lee type” to complement Lundgren – it was decided that the big money would be spent on the older, supporting characters – played by established actors – and so deliberately seeking out Jackson and Lee (whose larger-than-life screen personalities would likely overwhelm that of their star) was mooted. Still, the internationalism and multiracial nature of the cast was highly praised by critics – though the presence of female characters, not so much. Only one actress, who played Conan’s love interest, received major billing – and she appeared topless in the film, as did several female extras, raising the eternal spectre of sex and violence – the film was very popular with adolescent male audiences, earning over $40 million domestically. Most location shooting was done in Europe, where the film was even more financially successful.

I see only one but very big Problem with casting Dolph Lundgren as Conan. He is blond, while Conan was dark haired in the original stories Thus the anger of the fans will be much greater than OTL. OTL the film was very successfull but the story was not based on Conan stories but on Kull stories. The main character having been a slave and Thulsa Doom as the main antagonist are elements of REH's stories about Kull.

 

[Mefisto]

Have you seen "Interview with the Vampire" with blond Tom Cruise as Lestat de Lioncourt and brunet Brad Pitt as Luis de Pointe du Lac? It's not a problem to dye actor's hair. Besides Schwarzenegger was playing Conan with brown hair and nobody took the offence.

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

Have you seen "Interview with the Vampire" with blond Tom Cruise as Lestat de Lioncourt and brunet Brad Pitt as Luis de Pointe du Lac? It's not a problem to dye actor's hair. Besides Schwarzenegger was playing Conan with brown hair and nobody took the offence.

Brown hair is not a problem, because brown hair can still be dark. But blond hair is a problem and Brainbin did not write that Lundgren's hair had been dyed for the movie.

 

[Mefisto]

So now we have to wait for Brainbin's clarification: was Lundgren's hair dyed (sparing him and the producers hatemail from Conan's fans) or was it omitted?

 

[Jinx999]

I don't expect you to reveal the fate of The Terminator early (although casting for the movie should be underway by "now" ITTL, so you could if you wanted to....), but IOTL, Schwarzenegger was already in Hollywood, having starred in Stay Hungry (with Jeff Bridges! and Sally Field! -- and yes, inspiring the later Twisted Sister album), and eagerly trying out for roles in film and TV.

So, inquiring minds want to know: Is Arnold still an actor in TWR?

IIRC, he's mentioned - he's played the Hulk in the TV series.

 

[Mr Teufel]

Y'know, if Arnie played the Hulk in the TV show, I reckon the Hulk would have a reputation for being really scary IITL. Whatever limitations the man's acting skill has - he can scare the bloody pants off you.

 

[viewcode]

Boorman had wanted to adapt Mallory’s Le Morte d’Arthur into a film for some time, and the fantasy boom gave him the chance he needed. However, a potential roadblock for the positive reception of his Arthurian fantasy film, which was named Excalibur, was that it would be released in a post-Monty Python and Camelot environment. [11] In fact, this reality came to inform the reconstructive approach that the filmmakers sought, in deliberate contrast to Camelot’s irreverent take. (To emphasize this point, the word “Camelot” was never mentioned at any point during the film.) While not totally without comedy, the film went to great pains to highlight the virtuousness and nobility of Arthur and the righteousness of his cause. Cast as the wizard Merlin (and given top billing – Arthur was listed second) was Oscar-winner Alec Guinness, whose portrayal emphasized the mystery and cleverness of the sage.

A pity: I like Nicol Williamson's Merlin performance, although I understand why people consider it mannered (primarily because it is...)

Oh, and before you ask, there is no E.T. or Blade Runner ITTL.

No ET, no Blade Runner, no Wrath of Khan...

Apart from that, great update...

 

[Brainbin]

How did Looney Tunes fare ITTL?

Oh, about the same as it did IOTL - the fate of the Looney Tunes characters were pretty much set in stone by the POD.

That's right. Strangely, they didn't have any objection to him watching Things to Come.

Well, that's H.G. Wells - maybe they thought it was educational

It might be a bit early for Chris Barrie - he was only just starting his career in 1982 OTL. He appeared in the 1983 radio series Son of Cliché(written by Rob Grant and Doug Naylor), but I haven't been able to find out whether he also appeared in the 1981 series Cliché.

If he actually started out his radio/voice-acting/impressionist career at about this time IOTL, then it's actually not far beyond the realm of possibility that he might be cast to play "Additional Voices" in the Prydain films. I'm reminded of Maurice LaMarche, who played supporting roles in two local Canadian productions in 1980, years before his voice-acting career began in earnest (with Inspector Gadget and The Real Ghostbusters in the mid-1980s). Especially when we consider that Disney wouldn't be using any of their stock stable (such as Paul Winchell, Sterling Holloway, Buddy Hackett, Phil Harris, etc.), the need for an actor willing to do character voices is even more apparent.

Rotoscoping is one of those techniques that can be used badly - especially if it's being used to cut costs - but can also be effective. For example, in the video for Take On Me by A-Ha.

I agree that "Take On Me" used rotoscoping effectively, because the animation was so highly and deliberately stylized - the problem is that rotoscoping really can't work in an organic or naturalistic setting, which is unfortunately how it was so often used in Disney (and in the OTL Lord of the Rings film).

I thought that the pure white Andorians were an artifact of Hal Sutherland's colour blindness affecting the way Thelin appeared in Yesteryear.

They were, along with the pink Tribbles and the pink Kzinti uniforms. That's why they won't exist ITTL. (I still find it so delightfully emblematic of all the problems with Filmation as a studio that their animation director was colour-blind - and that it never occurred to him that maybe he wasn't choosing the right colours.)

I just thought all jungle-dwelling aliens are blue The nocturnal idea is interesting though, and could fit in nicely with the echo-location antennae idea. I’m not sure if antennae would actually be useful in echo-location, but biological plausibility has never been too strict in Trek.

That didn't stop e of pi from trying to play Devil's Advocate about that, rebutting my proposals as though he were my very own Kellam de Forest

Hmmm, now that you mention it, both

Well, there's certainly plenty of room for truly alien species via the comics, and the original stories, and the RPG...

Personally, the biggest blow I got from that update was the lack of The Muppet Movie and sequels.

The downside of Desilu having been burned by the big screen enough times in their history that they swear off any further ventures

I'd really like to see Battle of the Trees and The Broken Crystal though.

I always appreciate when my readers want to see TTL media - all I can say is, if such a thing ever becomes possible, please let me know!

Does Frank Oz co-direct The Broken Crystal with Henson? They both directed The Dark Crystal in OTL.

Yes, Oz co-directed The Broken Crystal ITTL.

Another smashing update, Brainbin.

Thank you, Andrew

So, inquiring minds want to know: Is Arnold still an actor in TWR?

Indeed he is! He played the Incredible Hulk, as was pointed out by Jinx999. Naturally, this has severely typecast him ITTL.

So now we have to wait for Brainbin's clarification: was Lundgren's hair dyed (sparing him and the producers hatemail from Conan's fans) or was it omitted?

His natural blond hair was not changed for the movie. It happens quite often IOTL - there's even a trope for that.

Y'know, if Arnie played the Hulk in the TV show, I reckon the Hulk would have a reputation for being really scary IITL. Whatever limitations the man's acting skill has - he can scare the bloody pants off you.

I'm inclined to agree, actually. He's definitely less cuddly than Lou Ferrigno.

No ET, no Blade Runner, no Wrath of Khan...

Apart from that, great update...

Thank you, viewcode! And yes, it's a world lacking so many of OTL's cultural touchstones. Sadly inevitable in a cultural timeline, alas...

Speaking of which, I hope to have the next post ready for you this weekend! Update for nothing and your posts for free! That's the way you do it!

 

[Clorox23]

Speaking of which, I hope to have the next post ready for you this weekend! Update for nothing and your posts for free! That's the way you do it!

Okay, so it's about music. ... ...Eagles, maybe?

 

[NCW8]

Okay, so it's about music. ... ...Eagles, maybe?

I want my MTV.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Thande]

I always thought "Andoria" better fitted the general pattern in Star Trek. Though that might just be because "Andor" always makes me think of The Silmarillion, in which it's the original name of Númenor, meaning "the Gifted Land"... yes, that's probably just me