That Wacky Redhead

[MatthewFirth]

That means no TV-AM. Maybe an ITN Breakfast Service?

 

[ryu238]

Well it's nice to see the religious right becoming a stillborn concept essentially (Yeah they might still be around but not as influential in the votes). I have a few Republican friends who I know don't like being associated with those otherwise well-intentioned whack jobs.
Also an Actor as a president passing the torch to an Astronaut and Peanut farmer, other nations are going "WTF?" I do enjoy how you seem to say that there is a middle path between the Socialist-esque Great Society and Regannomics (though why did the later fail here?). Can't wait to see how "Investment in America" works.

 

[Brainbin]

Well, in light of the 25 eek replies that I've received in the 48 hours following my update, I feel the need to extend an extra special thanks to all of you. I've been waiting to post about President Glenn for a very long time, as two of my closest consultants (each of whom has been good enough to keep that secret for the past several months) can attest. In fact, this update (along with the Trial of the Century) really does mark an explanation point to the series of cycles (1976-81) which I plan to label as "Part III".

Before I get to the replies to my latest update, I will, as always, address some of those which were posted prior thereto:

Almost the same here. I remember people seriously suggesting that, but it was wasn't everyone. Probably a combination of delayed importation of ideas from the Anglophone world (we might have gotten the virtual reality internet thing a bit later than you guys) with there being people around that actually were involved with the internet and seeing that it was catching on, a lack of virtual reality not withstanding.

Virtual reality, like so many technological fads, appears to be cyclical. It crashed and burned in the mid-1990s, but it might just be making a comeback. Maybe.

Nineteen Sixty Three. (written out to convince the forum software I'm not a spambot!)

Duly noted. We now have 42 data points, with a mean and median birth year of 1975 (and eleven mode years!).

Well, I'm no longer living in the UK, but thanks to online streaming I do still regularly listen to BBC Radio 4 and the World Service (and Radio 5 once a week to get told my opinion on films), and regularly listen to news, documentaries and comedy shows in the background, mainly whilst cooking or getting ready for work. I listen to even more as podcasts on my way to and from work and at the gym. So I guess my answer to your point would be that this Brit at least doesn't sit down just to listen to the radio, but has it on in the background.

Thanks for fielding my query, nixonshead I suspect it's probably true for most people - society moves a lot faster today than it did in the 1950s.

Given the subject matter of this thread, I thought it fitting to commemorate the late Sir David Frost with this photo which leaped out at me from the BBC's slideshow...

Thank you for keeping us informed, Thande. And what a perfect photograph! I'm glad that whomever was responsible on the BBC website chose it for their slideshow. In fact, That Wacky Redhead was a great interview (even with Wawa, as I've discovered since I first started writing). She likely appeared on his show as cross-promotion for Frost's appearance on an episode of Here's Lucy (which aired on November 29, 1971). For reference, that's Carol Burnett, her close friend and protégée, sitting to her left.

Obviously ITTL I've deprived Frost of his greatest journalistic triumph, but I have no doubt that he would still enjoy an unimpeachable reputation.

It's one of my favorite ways to freak younger people out sometimes when they're moaning about how kids don't know they're born

Mine was the last generation that enjoyed a childhood largely free of the internet and anything more advanced than the (original) Game Boy or a Walkman.

One interesting thing I've found while reading both the Spectator from the 1710s and Punch from the 1840s is that, back then, theatre and opera critics used to complain about the overuse of flashy special effects and how the uncultured masses love them, in a way not at all unlike their modern counterparts complaining about the populist appeal of Michael Bay explosionganzas. Nothing really does change...

Even more recently, many of the earliest films we remember today were, by the standards of their time, special effects extravaganzas.

It seems that with Reagan not being president you have avoided that policy which led to huge economical problems a couple of years ago in OTL.

Well, that happened 28 years after the election, and there were two full recessions (early-1990s, and early-2000s) between then and now.

Cool update, man!

Thank you!

A fascinating political update (as always) in an ostensibly non-political TL.

Thank you, Andrew! I really do try to remain fairly apolitical, but I do need to focus on politics to some extent, in order to furnish a context for the popular culture. That, coupled with my love of psephology, forces my hand. I find elections to be much more fun when I'm simply tallying the results and not getting wrapped up in the issues.

LBJ failed to win re-nomination in 1968 (both IOTL and ITTL), but won the nomination on his own in 1964.

I did know that, but I was attempting to imply that Johnson only got that chance in the first place because he was an incumbent - because Kennedy had been assassinated. And, as you note, he was able to coast on the widespread public sympathy for just long enough to secure re-nomination and then win the 1964 election in a landslide (with an assist from Goldwater, of course). And then, as you note, Johnson was not so fortunate in 1968. I have corrected the passage in question to make my meaning plain.

The results of TTL's 1980 elections strike me as likely given the prevailing economic conditions (which strongly favor the Democrats), modified by the personal likeability of Reagan and the underlying social issues (which strongly favor the Republicans).

Thank you! I definitely did not foresee a landslide victory for Reagan in the vein of OTL 1980 - so, basically, I flipped the 1976 and 1980 results

Brainbin has managed to realign the Democratic Party very subtly here; instead of just being the party of "Big Government," they're now the party of "Big Space." One logical consequence is that Republicans aren't likely to jump on the federalism bandwagon they did in OTL's 1980s -- particularly with Reagan having gone down in defeat on the back of "do-nothing" supply-side economics. So you'll likely see "big government" Republicans (Jack Kemp?) and "small government" Democrats (epitomized in this election by William Proxmire) in TTL's 1980s and beyond. Bill Clinton's formative events that made him a Democrat predate the POD, so he's probably still a Democrat ITTL. Al Gore, on the other hand, may be taking a very different course...

In fact, Clinton is presently in the Senate ITTL. Gore never served in the overseas quagmire ITTL, but his father (still defeated in 1970) is a Southern Democrat, after all.

Oh, and one more thing. IOTL, Jimmy Carter was criticized -- wrongly, but effectively -- as having "gut" the military, and so increased defense spending was a key plank of Ronald Reagan's platform in 1980. As a result of opposing Reagan, Democrats became known as the party that opposed military spending. Here, none of those events take place, and "Big Space" Democrats are likely to be perceived as pro-military spending, given the significant overlap between those two sectors. In fact, we might see anti-"Big Space" Republicans also take up the mantle of slashing "needless" military spending on "high-tech toys."

An intriguing hypothesis. We shall definitely be taking a look at NASA spending in future updates - and military spending, though perhaps not American military spending...

Although I must express some slight disappointment that my expy was this close to being named Man of the Year.

Well, if it's any consolation, you're not the only one

Speaking of on topic, a very well done 1980 election, Brainbin.

Thank you, Glen

While as a child of the 80s I find it hard to believe in a Reagan defeat emotionally, you've set up a very convincing scenario for that loss, and you took down Proxmire, which is a nice consolation prize. I look forward to hearing more about the Glenn administration.

Don't forget, Proxmire remains in the Senate. That said, he is up for re-election in 1982...

Nice political update; Ohio has another President!

Indeed it does. John Glenn is the eighth President to be born in Ohio, tying the Buckeye State with Virginia for most prolific producer of Presidents. Ohio also leads for direct affiliation, with seven states to six for New York - interestingly, the Buckeye State has served as the base for the 39th President (Glenn), along with the 29th (Warren Harding), the 19th (Rutherford B. Hayes), and the 9th (William Henry Harrison). I assure you that was not deliberate, although I have no doubt that many numerologists and prognosticators ITTL will get a kick out of it. (IOTL, of course, the 39th President was Jimmy Carter, the only one from Georgia, sadly breaking this streak.)

I must say, it's nice to see a world where the 2 parties are not growing so far apart becasue of Watergate and the Unmentionable Thing in Asia.

Thank you! I must say, it's nice to write one as well (Though it's not all sunshine and roses, as several of my readers have quite astutely observed.)

Not only that, but the Democrats have to tread lightly here. If their rapproachment with the AIP/ADP is too inviting to these members, it might be the first opportunity in a generation for the GOP to draw African-American voters back to them. NOt in huge numbers, but in New Deal-numbers of maybe 65% Democrats, 35% Republicans.

Even in 1980, the Reagan/Mathias ticket still probably got about a fifth to a quarter of the African-American vote, and maybe more (though not the third-or-so they enjoyed in 1972 and 1976). This isn't a timeline where any one party can absolutely count on the support of even 80% of the African-American vote, let alone 90% or more.

Still a lot of work to get there, and it would be beyond the scope of this TL, since it ends in '86, but there is a glimmer of hope that the Republicans might see the need to reinvent themselves after being out of office for all but 4 of 29 years.

Remember that the Democrats were only in office for 8 of 36 years between 1897 and 1933 IOTL, and only because of vote-splitting. Then they were in for 20 years straight.

And, Andy Griffith in the Senate is really cool! Might it inspire other Hollywood actors and actresses?

You can thank vultan for that one. As for others following his example, Griffith was more politically active than even most actors, and there are several reasons why he would be the ideal Democratic candidate for that particular race. Suffice it to say that he was definitely a "Carterite" whose situation was peculiar to the circumstances.

As for the slogan, I think it was first used OTL in 1982 against Harrison Schmidt.

Thank you very much for the correction, Orville! It has been incorporated into the update.

This is awesome!

Thank you, Dan, and welcome aboard!

I'm sad to see my beloved Wisconsin go Republican during this election (during much of the 1970s, the state became very, very Democratic, as a result of Watergate, but in an ATL without that, it makes sense for the Republicans to remain stronger. Interestingly, this may also mean that the old Progressive-Republicans remain a stronger faction within the party, and the state, as they were the worse hit by the fallout of Watergate.) However, if Proxmire cuts significantly into the Democratic vote, it makes sense.

Basically, the impression I get from Wisconsin (the disposition of which is considered every four years, I can assure you) is that, on the federal level, it was a Republican-leaning swing state. Since World War II it went Democratic only three times before 1992: 1948 (which I assume is Wallace's doing, since it voted for Dewey in 1944), 1964, and 1976. ITTL it voted for Humphrey in 1972, and I believe I gave it to the Democrats because it was next-door to his home state of Minnesota. Now, there have been discussions about changing the 1972 map for future revisions, and Wisconsin has been mentioned. With regards to the caucus of Progressive-Republicans, I did intend for them to remain a stronger faction ITTL (just like the liberal Republicans of New England), and they were the ones I had in mind when I mentioned that the GOP was better at retaining their liberal voter base than the Democrats - even though Proxmire isn't a particularly left-wing candidate (especially not fiscally).

Well, in any case, I wish the John Glenn Presidency a lot of luck. I suspect that having an Space-faring President is going to have some major impacts upon popular culture. I could see the public attention turning towards more Science Fiction during this period as a result, which would be great. Maybe we will see more Star Trek (minus Sulu, of course, who has duties in the Congress).

Sulu wouldn't appear in more Star Trek even if Takei wasn't in Congress - the character made a heroic sacrifice at the end of the 1978 miniseries, The Next Voyage.

One question: How has Philip K. Dick fared in this TL?

Good question. All I can say in response to it is: keep reading!

Ah good update BB.

Thank you, Professor!

It's posible we may even see a Takei bid at the Presidency tho likely after the 86 cutoff

If - and that's a big if - he runs for President, it would definitely be after the 1986 cutoff. He wouldn't run against an incumbent Democrat in 1984.

Great update.

Thank you, Thande!

I see that third parties turn out to be about as unsuccessful as ever in the USA. I saw a hint that the Earth Party will continue after Proxmire (boo, hiss!), maybe it will morph into an alternate Green Party-like organisation?

Maaaybe...

(BTW, while checking something I found that not only was Proxmire the great enemy of the space programme, he also said that a project which led to 3D navigation like the interface from Google Maps was a waste of money...he probably caused the most damage to human progress of any individual since that guy who invented both CFCs and leaded petrol...)

Funnily enough, even though the majority of my consultants despise Proxmire, I can appreciate his point of view, for much the same reason that I find Henry VII to be perhaps the most underrated of all Kings of England. But, unfortunately for Proxmire, I have plenty of big ideas, and big ideas tend to cost big bucks.

Allow me to copy-paste my standard explanation of the history of US political party colour schemes. Suffice to say that this 'convention' is barely a decade old.

Everyone else has been good enough to clarify this on my behalf, so I'll elaborate by pointing out that, as is the case with metrication, spelling reform, and generally accepted accounting principles, the United States is following rules that are contrary to those observed in the rest of the world. The major right-wing parties in the United Kingdom (the Conservatives), Canada (also the Conservatives), Australia (the Liberals) and New Zealand (the National Party), not to mention many non-Anglophone countries such as France, Italy, and (partially) Germany, are all identified by the colour blue, and red is used by the main party on the left (since the 1920s in the UK, and until 2011 in Canada).

Excellent update, Brainbin! Of course, I was privy to the information beforehand, but I can say that you put it together exceptionally well.

Thank you, vultan, for your compliment and once again for your invaluable assistance

I can see a lot of sci-fi books, movies and shows written or made after this election making some sort of reference to an astronaut President (maybe even mentioning Glenn specifically). Might Deep Space be the first of these?

An excellent suggestion. I certainly don't see why Deep Space would not want to make great hay of that connection.

One interesting snippet from Monday's BBC Radio 4 News was that he paid for the rights to conduct the Nixon interviews with his own money, which meant that he had to sell his shares in London Weekend Television. Obviously ITTL, there's nothing comparable to OTL's Nixon Interviews, so Frost will remain an LWT shareholder. I'm not sure what effect that would have on LWT itself, but it probably means that Frost is less likely to become involved with a venture such as TV-AM.

Yes, I heard that bit as well. Quite POD-worthy in itself. They said that Frost's LWT shares would be worth millions today if he'd kept them.

That means no TV-AM. Maybe an ITN Breakfast Service?

Well then, gentlemen, it would appear that British television is being hit rather strongly by the butterflies from this event - or rather, from the lack thereof

I do enjoy how you seem to say that there is a middle path between the Socialist-esque Great Society and Regannomics (though why did the later fail here?). Can't wait to see how "Investment in America" works.

The time wasn't right for Reagonomics in the late-1970s. The economy tends to be very sensitive about reacting to different stimuli at differing points of the curve.

---

And now for the first of three infoboxes detailing the results of the US elections taking place on November 4, 1980. First off, the Big Event:



Only 537 of 538 electoral votes are accounted for, due to a faithless elector pledged to Glenn/Carter from the state of New York instead voting for Glenn and Chisholm - as this combination appears on neither the Democratic nor the Earth Party ticket, it is not listed here and would instead appear on the infobox detailing the candidate breakdown.

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

Well, that happened 28 years after the election, and there were two full recessions (early-1990s, and early-2000s) between then and now.

But his economic policy laid down the foundation that made the crisis possible. Without it this crisis would have never happened because the mechanisms that led to it were still not legal!

 

[Thande]

And now for the first of three infoboxes detailing the results of the US elections taking place on November 4, 1980. First off, the Big Event:

Nice infobox. They do add a sense of realism to a TL...at least providing you can avoid the fridge logic of wondering how Wikipedia exists in exactly the same form in an alternate timeline with an early POD

The fact that the Earth Party in green could just be the fact that that colour is often used for third parties in American political colour scenes, or...

 

[The Professor]

Nice infobox. They do add a sense of realism to a TL...at least providing you can avoid the fridge logic of wondering how Wikipedia exists in exactly the same form in an alternate timeline with an early POD

Perhaps it's Infopedia?

 

[nixonshead]

Sulu wouldn't appear in more Star Trek even if Takei wasn't in Congress - the character made a heroic sacrifice at the end of the 1978 miniseries, The Next Voyage.

Given what we know of OTL Trek (and various other shows), perhaps this is a cunning double-bluff? I'm now looking forward to a c.1985 TV movie special where it turns out that the energy of the weapons fire that supposedly destroyed the Artemis actually opened a time vortex and sends Sulu a few years into the future, to emerge again just in time to save the day in some new adventure

 

[Dan1988]

Given what we know of OTL Trek (and various other shows), perhaps this is a cunning double-bluff? I'm now looking forward to a c.1985 TV movie special where it turns out that the energy of the weapons fire that supposedly destroyed the Artemis actually opened a time vortex and sends Sulu a few years into the future, to emerge again just in time to save the day in some new adventure

You really think Desilu would go for that?

 

[Francisco Cojuanco]

Well it's nice to see the religious right becoming a stillborn concept essentially (Yeah they might still be around but not as influential in the votes). I have a few Republican friends who I know don't like being associated with those otherwise well-intentioned whack jobs.
Also an Actor as a president passing the torch to an Astronaut and Peanut farmer, other nations are going "WTF?" I do enjoy how you seem to say that there is a middle path between the Socialist-esque Great Society and Regannomics (though why did the later fail here?). Can't wait to see how "Investment in America" works.

Perhaps. But it could mean merely a somewhat, perhaps more Catholic-influenced form of religious activism in politics.

 

[THE OBSERVER]

Is there gonna be a list of Senate victories for each election beginning in 1968 or 1970?

 

[nixonshead]

You really think Desilu would go for that?

Not a hope in hell, but a geek can dream!

 

[ryu238]

So are you saying Reganomics did work OTL? And can you explain how will Glen's economic plan work to those who only have a beginners grasp of economics? And how will this effect the merchandice driven cartoon? Not to mention MacGuyver and Knight Rider.

 

[vultan]

Is there gonna be a list of Senate victories for each election beginning in 1968 or 1970?

If Brainbin were to start posting posting complete lists of Senate races, he'd probably start later. The 1968 Senate races here are identical to OTL, while only a few 1970 races are different - Ohio and Michigan come to mind.

 

[Andrew T]

Perhaps it's Infopedia?

Given what we know of That Wacky Redhead's business deals so far ITTL, I wouldn't be surprised to see it be Lucipedia.

 

[vultan]

Just wanted to share this little tidbit. Astute AH.com readers might have been able to pick up a hint of the winner of this timeline's 1980 presidential election in the excellent Eyes Turned Skyward, co-written by e of pi, one of the consultants for That Wacky Redhead. Brainbin wrote a guest installment of that timeline which covered, among other things, the 1984 presidential election. And guess who Walter Mondale picks as his running mate in that timeline?

 

[THE OBSERVER]

If Brainbin were to start posting posting complete lists of Senate races, he'd probably start later. The 1968 Senate races here are identical to OTL, while only a few 1970 races are different - Ohio and Michigan come to mind.

Start with 1970, then continue until 1980.

 

[Brainbin]

But his economic policy laid down the foundation that made the crisis possible. Without it this crisis would have never happened because the mechanisms that led to it were still not legal!

This reminds me a lot of the situation in Wall Street - which was set a couple of years prior to the 1987 release date - in which, apparently, none of the acts committed by Gordon Gekko were actually illegal at the time (ex post facto, and all that). Laws do tend to change in response to the situation on the ground, is what I'm saying.

Nice infobox. They do add a sense of realism to a TL...at least providing you can avoid the fridge logic of wondering how Wikipedia exists in exactly the same form in an alternate timeline with an early POD

We'll just have to acknowledge that Wiki formatting is one of those inevitable technologies

The fact that the Earth Party in green could just be the fact that that colour is often used for third parties in American political colour scenes, or...

Or blue was already taken, and that green is the other colour identified with the Earth?

Perhaps it's Infopedia?

I always liked Virtuopædia (yes, with the British/Latinate spelling) as the name for my alt!Wikipedia.

Given what we know of OTL Trek (and various other shows), perhaps this is a cunning double-bluff? I'm now looking forward to a c.1985 TV movie special where it turns out that the energy of the weapons fire that supposedly destroyed the Artemis actually opened a time vortex and sends Sulu a few years into the future, to emerge again just in time to save the day in some new adventure

You really think Desilu would go for that?

Not a hope in hell, but a geek can dream!

Unfortunately, nixonshead, I'm inclined to agree with Dan on this one. That sounds like the Star Trek of OTL, not TTL. Besides, I think Takei is happy to have a clean break.

Is there gonna be a list of Senate victories for each election beginning in 1968 or 1970?

Actually, I've been very carefully working out Senate election results with the help of vultan since 1970, as he was good enough to point out (there were no changes in 1968). However, I would prefer to wait until 1986 to list the changes over time, simply because I'd much rather present a comprehensive picture in a single post.

So are you saying Reganomics did work OTL? And can you explain how will Glen's economic plan work to those who only have a beginners grasp of economics?

Basically, Reaganomics came along at the right time (1980) IOTL, and the wrong time (1976) ITTL. The economy seemed to be recovering when Reagan defeated Muskie, and his decision to reinstate the Gold Standard (which hampers economic growth compared to a fiat currency) made the situation more precarious than it would have otherwise been. Prior to that, economic and monetary policy is likely to have been largely similar to IOTL, and then Reagan's actions caused similar problems to those caused in the mid-1970s, culminating in the stagflation of the era. Once the Gold Standard is dropped ITTL (and imagine Glenn to begin working towards that before the end of January), that coupled with the government stimulating the economy (as Reagan did IOTL through his tax cuts and as Glenn will do ITTL through his public works) will help lift the US out of recession.

And how will this effect the merchandice driven cartoon? Not to mention MacGuyver and Knight Rider.

There's only one way to find out!

Given what we know of That Wacky Redhead's business deals so far ITTL, I wouldn't be surprised to see it be Lucipedia.

Can you imagine clicking on the logo and hearing her say "Waaaah!"

Just wanted to share this little tidbit. Astute AH.com readers might have been able to pick up a hint of the winner of this timeline's 1980 presidential election in the excellent Eyes Turned Skyward, co-written by e of pi, one of the consultants for That Wacky Redhead. Brainbin wrote a guest installment of that timeline which covered, among other things, the 1984 presidential election. And guess who Walter Mondale picks as his running mate in that timeline?

An excellent observation, vultan, and I'm glad you're reading that excellent timeline. Believe it or not, e of pi suggested John Glenn for Vice-President on his own initiative, and it took a Herculean effort on my part not to divulge my secret as I was writing that update. (I did tell him - and vultan, of course - later on, however.)

---

And now, for the Infobox for the United States Senate election of 1980!



Various floor-crossings, resignations, and appointments changed the partisan tally over time, but never the balance of power - the Republicans would have been reduced to 50 seats after the defection of Conlan to the AIP, had the Governor of Ohio (John Ashbrook) not appointed a Republican (George Voinovich) to replace John Glenn (who resigned to prepare for his incoming administration). This allowed the GOP to control the Senate outright, though (as IOTL) Howard Baker is a moderate with a proven record of bipartisan success. Meanwhile, George Wallace and Walter Flowers switched to the Democrats, leaving the four remaining Senators (Larry McDonald had been appointed by the AIP Governor to replace Jimmy Carter, who also resigned early) to fight it out for the position of Party Senate Leader; Trent Lott eventually emerged victorious.

 

[THE OBSERVER]

Understan Brainbin. Senator Larry McDonald. That doesn't sound good!

 

[Daibhid C]

That means no TV-AM. Maybe an ITN Breakfast Service?

No TV-AM? Little TTL-Daibhid's parents are going to save a fortune on Roland Rat merchandise! (Not really, because I'm sure there'll be an equivalent character somewhere.)

Incidentally, Wikipedia says that Roland Rat's creator previously worked for Henson, although it doesn't say what shows, and imdb doesn't seem to know. ITTL he's probably working on Sesame Square.

 

[Daibhid C]

As usual, I'm afraid I don't have much to say about American politics, but having President Glenn is certainly intriguing.

And Shepard can take solace in the fact that, while people may mistakenly believe Glenn was the first American in space, he will always be remembered as the first man to play golf in space.