That Wacky Redhead

[Dan1988]

Fortunately, I can answer that question, since Canada uses the same call-letters system as the United States. For reference: if the first letter is "W", it's an American station east of the Mississippi; if the first letter is "K", it's an American station west of the Mississippi; and if the first letter is "C", it's a Canadian station. As e of pi notes, identifying by the callsign as opposed to network affiliation, channel number, and/or market is more the province of radio (especially AM radio), but it is (or at least was - with the advent of digital and networks consolidating their owned-and-operated stations, it's falling out of favour) also very popular on television. In terms of how the call signs are perceived - it's a lot like a home address, or a phone number: a series of digits which is easy to memorize and soon becomes second nature. "CFTO" flows off the tongue a lot better than "CTV Toronto", for example. Now, certain stations do use the ITV strategy of having their own distinct names, but it's very rare on this side of the Pond.

May I also make a contribution to this?

In reality, it's only certain combinations that identify a Canadian station, as the "C" prefix is shared by about a dozen countries - IIRC the Canadian government had to get permission from Chile to allow the CBC's stations to use the "CB-" prefix, as the ITU assigned it to the Chileans. This is actually more common than you think - for example, Mexican stations are usually identified with an "X-" prefix, but the way the Secretariat of Communications and Transportation handles it is that only a certain amount of prefixes are used (compensated by having VERY long callsigns!) so that in addition one could also tell what type of service is offered. "XE-" indicates AM radio service, "XH-" for FM radio service, and both are encountered for TV but it's usually "XH-".

 

[Dan1988]

A lot might depend also on what kind of Pope Innocent XIV is. Is he TV friendly like St. John Paul? Or is he like Benedict, a man who, while I have great admiration for, forgot that the demands of senior faculty and those of Pope are different PR wise?

I'll just link to Cardinal Baggio's/Innocent XIV's OTL Spanish Wikipedia page, just so that you get an idea. However, he was often described as being "affable and smiling" - sounding suspiciously similar to John Paul I, albeit without his dying within a month (OTL Cardinal Baggio lived until the year 1993).

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastiano_Baggio

 

[Asharella]

Eddie Murphy would appear on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, that would boost his career, and then give him his own show sometime, or a recurring role on the Crosby show?

I think Murphy should be a recurring guest on Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood ITTL, it would be cross-timeline ironic.

 

[The Professor]

Let's see, off the top of my head there was The Sweeney, The Professionals, Return of the Saint, Rumpole of the Bailey, Tales of the Unexpected, Quatermass, Sapphire and Steel and The Muppet Show. Of course ITTL things will be different, but I'd expect that equivalents of most of these (except the Muppets) will still be made. However Quatermass and Rumpole could easily be made by the BBC ITTL.

Cheers,
Nigel.

Yeah, I can't see the butterflies affecting these too much. Rumpole strikes me as more an ITV programme, if it's BBC TTL then it'd likely flop. Quatermass however is an odd one. Always struck me as a BBC show that just happened to be on ITV .

 

[NCW8]

Yeah, I can't see the butterflies affecting these too much. Rumpole strikes me as more an ITV programme, if it's BBC TTL then it'd likely flop. Quatermass however is an odd one. Always struck me as a BBC show that just happened to be on ITV .

Well the first Rumpole story appeared as an episode of Play for Today on the BBC. Apparently the Head of Plays at the BBC was interested in a Rumpole series, but he left shortly afterwards and his replacement didn't want to produce such a series. Fortunately the Head of Drama at Thames wanted to create an Up-Market drama and liked Rumpole enough to commission the series. It would only take minor butterflies to keep Rumpole at the BBC.

Quatermass (the 1970s TV series) was initially commisioned by the BBC and production started in 1972. However spiralling costs and other production problems caused them to can the series. After Star Wars revived interest in SF, Thames picked up the script for Quatermass and completed the series. ITTL, with more money available due to Desilu subsidising the production of Doctor Who and Moonshot Madness increasing the popularity of SF, the Beeb might continue the production of Quatermass. The resulting show would appear in 1973 (compared to 1979 OTL) and be much less lavish with more indoor scenes.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[The Professor]

Well the first Rumpole story appeared as an episode of Play for Today on the BBC. Apparently the Head of Plays at the BBC was interested in a Rumpole series, but he left shortly aferwards and his replacement didn't want to produce such a series. Fortunately the Head of Drama at Thames wanted to create an Up-Market drama and liked Rumpole enough to commission the series. It would only take minor buttterflies to keep Rumpole at the BBC.

Quatermass (the 1970s TV series) was initially commisioned by the BBC and production started in 1972. However spiralling costs and other production problems caused them to can the series. After Star Wars revived interest in SF, Thames picked up the script for Quatermass and completed the series. ITTL, with more money available due to Desilu subsidising the production of Doctor Who and Moonshot Madness increasing the popularity of SF, the Beeb might continue the production of Quatermass. The resulting show would appear in 1973 (compared to 1979 OTL) and be much less lavish with more indoor scenes.

Cheers,
Nigel.

Was not aware of the Rumpole origins.

Hmm, Thames did a lot of pickup of ex/old BBC items didn't it. Certainly hope in TTL that Auntie continue Quartermass (deliberately and fondly misspelt )

 

[NCW8]

Hmm, Thames did a lot of pickup of ex/old BBC items didn't it.

Including Morcambe and Wise in 1978.

Certainly hope in TTL that Auntie continue Quartermass (deliberately and fondly misspelt )

I agree, but that's partly because I think that the story would have worked better in the early Seventies.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[ryu238]

I must admit, it was a bit hard to follow the update especially in concern to regions and 'superstations' but I think I understand that current laws IITL prevented stations from having schedules that provided the same content as competitors in order to drive competion and diversity, the market being provided by satellite and cable forcing the channels themselves to differentiate themselves from each other similar to present OTL. Do I get it?

Also what of Anime and the Japanese culture invasion so far, will there be an update for that?

 

[Asharella]

I must admit, it was a bit hard to follow the update especially in concern to regions and 'superstations' but I think I understand that current laws IITL prevented stations from having schedules that provided the same content as competitors in order to drive competion and diversity, the market being provided by satellite and cable forcing the channels themselves to differentiate themselves from each other similar to present OTL. Do I get it?

Also what of Anime and the Japanese culture invasion so far, will there be an update for that?

We had something like that also in OTL. I remember when we first got cable here in Bellingham, WA, which is 88 miles north of Seattle.

Before cable we had four stations that came in clear, even with rabbit ears. One was KVOS, which was located here in Bellingham but was actually oriented to Vancouver, BC. It was a CBS affiliate. We also got 2 CBC stations, one from Vancouver and one from Victoria. The final station was CHECK, which I think back then was an independent station in Vancouver.

We could get KOMO, the ABC Seattle station, and KING, the NBC Seattle station, with a roof antenna, but they were not clear. The Seattle CBS station, KIRO, was barely visible on a good day with a roof antenna.

Cable for us made those Seattle stations come in clear and also brought us the PBS station from Seattle and an independent station in Tacoma.

Now we had nine stations, almost filling the VHF dial, but we also had two CBS stations. I remember that KIRO was blocked anytime they were showing the same show as KVOS. What was ironic was that those rules didn't apply to the Canadian stations we got and so we often had duplicate programming since they showed lots of American shows. But it was cool because they often showed the shows at different timeslots than the American networks.

This was nice because this was back before we had anyway to record shows. So for most Americans it was either watch Green Acres or watch Hogan's Heroes, but not both. But we didn't have that problem since we could watch Hogan's Heroes on another night on the Canadian station.

At some point this blocking went away. The eventual result was that KVOS left CBS and became an independent station.

 

[Brainbin]

I know that. Wish he designed the beloved Wrath of Khan uniforms earlier, for TMP. That would've made the film a lot better.

I beg to differ. It would have made the film look better - and costumes aside, it already looked great. The vast majority of the problems with TMP were structural. (You will recall that a great many effects shots in TWOK were in fact reused from TMP.) They should have stuck with the original costumes (as they were planning for Phase II).

I think that EWTN is going to be a different creature if it exists OTL. For example, it will probably have less Protestant programming from the outset owing to a very, very different Religious Right. No way is the good Mother Superior going to align with programming with paid shills for the AIP. So it probably will not broadcast from Irondale.

Indeed, it's a very safe bet that no nominally Catholic station or network is going to be headquartered in Alabama ITTL.

Perhaps we may see the niche taken over by a CatholicTV or NET Brooklyn analog. An interesting possibility is a Jesuit like Fr. Pacwa or Fr. Fessio running this alt-EWTN*. Unlike the Poor Clares, the Society of Jesus has access to more resources in terms of skilled talent, and a different approach to pop culture. We are talking about the order that gave us Pope Francis OTL, after all.

An intriguing possibility. And I agree that, especially given their history, the Jesuits do indeed seem a good fit for televangelism.

Ooo! Exciting!! I love the book and loved the David Lynch movie (Patrick Stewart shouting "ATOMICS!" What's not to like?!), but in terms of giving storytelling space for the shear scale of the novel I prefer the 2000 miniseries (though some of the effects showed that early noughties computers still couldn't compete with early eighties craftsmen and women).

That criticism speaks volumes, especially from someone as talented with computer graphics as yourself. The problem with Dune is that I'm not familiar with it, myself, and it hasn't really spread through pop cultural osmosis in the same way as The Lord of the Rings. Fortunately, one of my consultants is a very avid fan of the Duniverse

With the increased prominence of the miniseries format ITTL following The Next Voyage, might we see that format tried first for Herbert's 'unfilmable' book?

A distinct possibility. Another would be an animated film, or series of films, as was done for The Lord of the Rings ITTL.

BTW, any chance Mr Stewart and/or any of his crewmates might put in an appearance ITTL?

Of course, it's rather difficult to include any of these people, none of whom have any real connection to any element of the narrative ITTL. But never say never!

Eddie Murphy would appear on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, that would boost his career, and then give him his own show sometime, or a recurring role on the Crosby show?

Murphy was born and raised in New York City (the whole reason that he was able to audition for Saturday Night Live in the first place IOTL), whereas The Tonight Show moved from Rockefeller Centre to "Beautiful Downtown Burbank" once and for all in 1972 (when Murphy was 11 years old). Murphy appearing on The Tonight Show would serve as a culmination, rather than as a launching pad (consider the OTL examples: Ellen DeGeneres, Roseanne Barr, Drew Carey, etc.). I assume you're referring to The Cosby Show; however, whether that will exist ITTL, given the greater success of The Bill Cosby Show in the 1970s, is another matter entirely.

In reality, it's only certain combinations that identify a Canadian station, as the "C" prefix is shared by about a dozen countries - IIRC the Canadian government had to get permission from Chile to allow the CBC's stations to use the "CB-" prefix, as the ITU assigned it to the Chileans. This is actually more common than you think - for example, Mexican stations are usually identified with an "X-" prefix, but the way the Secretariat of Communications and Transportation handles it is that only a certain amount of prefixes are used (compensated by having VERY long callsigns!) so that in addition one could also tell what type of service is offered. "XE-" indicates AM radio service, "XH-" for FM radio service, and both are encountered for TV but it's usually "XH-".

Thanks for clearing that up for everyone, Dan

A lot might depend also on what kind of Pope Innocent XIV is. Is he TV friendly like St. John Paul? Or is he like Benedict, a man who, while I have great admiration for, forgot that the demands of senior faculty and those of Pope are different PR wise?

I'm curious about this myself. What's his story, Mr Brainbin? (Besides being brave enough to take one of the more unfortunately joke-inducing papal names out there.)

I'll just link to Cardinal Baggio's/Innocent XIV's OTL Spanish Wikipedia page, just so that you get an idea. However, he was often described as being "affable and smiling" - sounding suspiciously similar to John Paul I, albeit without his dying within a month (OTL Cardinal Baggio lived until the year 1993).

Yes, as noted, Cardinal Sebastiano Baggio seems to have been an agreeable administrative type - who was also perhaps more diplomatic than many of his other contemporaries. To mix my metaphors, I would describe him as a "steady hand of God" With regards to the name, that was an evolutionary process - it was originally Gregory XVII (when Cardinal Giuseppe Siri was originally penciled in to replace Paul VI) before Baggio was chosen instead, at which time it was tentatively Pius XIII (used by three of the six previous Popes, from St. Pius X), but that regnal number gave me pause. "Innocent" was then suggested to me, and I liked how very archaic it sounded, as you note.

I think Murphy should be a recurring guest on Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood ITTL, it would be cross-timeline ironic.

Highly unlikely - once again, Murphy is based in New York, and Mister Rogers' Neighborhood in Pittsburgh.

I must admit, it was a bit hard to follow the update especially in concern to regions and 'superstations' but I think I understand that current laws IITL prevented stations from having schedules that provided the same content as competitors in order to drive competion and diversity, the market being provided by satellite and cable forcing the channels themselves to differentiate themselves from each other similar to present OTL. Do I get it?

You do indeed! Well done I apologize for the convoluted nature of the update - I realize it was heavier and drier than usual, but the material warranted the detail.

Also what of Anime and the Japanese culture invasion so far, will there be an update for that?

As I've said before, Japanese culture is largely outside the purview of this timeline, which focuses on works produced within the Anglosphere. IOTL, the Japanese cultural invasion first hit the mainstream with video games, apart from isolated incidents like Speed Racer, so that would be the focus of any coverage ITTL.

 

[THE OBSERVER]

I beg to differ. It would have made the film look better - and costumes aside, it already looked great. The vast majority of the problems with TMP were structural. (You will recall that a great many effects shots in TWOK were in fact reused from TMP.) They should have stuck with the original costumes (as they were planning for Phase II).

I know about the structural problems. The TWOK costumes being used earlier would've been an improvement visually and on cast morale, so maybe the film is a little better, but not a masterpiece.

 

[varyar]

A distinct possibility. Another would be an animated film, or series of films, as was done for The Lord of the Rings ITTL.

Yes, as noted, Cardinal Sebastiano Baggio seems to have been an agreeable administrative type - who was also perhaps more diplomatic than many of his other contemporaries. To mix my metaphors, I would describe him as a "steady hand of God" With regards to the name, that was an evolutionary process - it was originally Gregory XVII (when Cardinal Giuseppe Siri was originally penciled in to replace Paul VI) before Baggio was chosen instead, at which time it was tentatively Pius XIII (used by three of the six previous Popes, from St. Pius X), but that regnal number gave me pause. "Innocent" was then suggested to me, and I liked how very archaic it sounded, as you note.

Thanks for the clarification. I'd like to see how his papacy progresses, if you can work in a reference or two as time goes by.

Also...

it was originally Gregory XVII (when Cardinal Giuseppe Siri was originally penciled in to replace Paul VI)

That sound you hear? The wailing and rending of garments of all the traditionalists in the world at what might have been

 

[Asharella]

Highly unlikely - once again, Murphy is based in New York, and Mister Rogers' Neighborhood in Pittsburgh.

'Twas just a joke.

 

[ryu238]

You do indeed! Well done I apologize for the convoluted nature of the update - I realize it was heavier and drier than usual, but the material warranted the detail.

As I've said before, Japanese culture is largely outside the purview of this timeline, which focuses on works produced within the Anglosphere. IOTL, the Japanese cultural invasion first hit the mainstream with video games, apart from isolated incidents like Speed Racer, so that would be the focus of any coverage ITTL.

That last bit isn't quite true. First off Akira Kurosowa's works were an inspiration for Journey of the Force as you mentioned, and second, around the end of the timeline here anime was being dubbed. "Battle of the Planets" anyone. Also, in-between work and outsourcing animation in general to other studios in Japan was the norm for many 80's saturday morning cartoons (Thundercats being the most prominent)

 

[Francisco Cojuanco]

That sound you hear? The wailing and rending of garments of all the traditionalists in the world at what might have been

Pretty much, kind of like how OTL some of them see Burke and Ranjith.

For Baggio, it seems he has close ties both to the controversial Carlo Martini and Opus Dei. Perhaps the pop culture perception of him as a more diplomatic, fatter Bergoglio might emerge. In such a case there is a case for having a channel filling in the niche EWTN did, only not involving the Poor Clares, and not being south of the Mason Dixon (Florida possibly excepted). Might have better original programming, too, though liturgy might be a little less High Church.

 

[Brainbin]

I know about the structural problems. The TWOK costumes being used earlier would've been an improvement visually and on cast morale, so maybe the film is a little better, but not a masterpiece.

As I've said, since the costumes from TWOK were in fact modifications of those from TMP, I'm not sure if such a thing would be feasible.

Besides, everyone knows that the best possible costumes would be the ones from the series proper!

Thanks for the clarification. I'd like to see how his papacy progresses, if you can work in a reference or two as time goes by.

I'll see what I can do, although I remind you that the early Papacy of John Paul II is primarily remembered for two things in popular culture: his 1979 visit to his native Poland, which helped to precipitate the Solidarity movement in that country (which in turn contributed to the fall of Communism), and the attempt on his life in 1981.

That last bit isn't quite true. First off Akira Kurosowa's works were an inspiration for Journey of the Force as you mentioned.

Yes, as background for an update which centred on a derivative work that was produced for English-speaking audiences.

And second, around the end of the timeline here anime was being dubbed. "Battle of the Planets" anyone.

I note that Voltron aired prior to my 1986 cutoff date, so perhaps some dubs might be mentioned, but only in the context of their popularity in the West, I'm afraid.

Also, in-between work and outsourcing animation in general to other studios in Japan was the norm for many 80's saturday morning cartoons (Thundercats being the most prominent)

Very true, but that is not anime, and the language in which all those works were produced is English. I would hardly say that qualifies as Japanese culture.

For Baggio, it seems he has close ties both to the controversial Carlo Martini and Opus Dei.

But doesn't every Pope have ties to some controversial secret society or another?

---

Work on the next update proceeds apace; I hope to have it ready for you sometime this weekend. So, until then!

 

[varyar]

I'll see what I can do, although I remind you that the early Papacy of John Paul II is primarily remembered for two things in popular culture: his 1979 visit to his native Poland, which helped to precipitate the Solidarity movement in that country (which in turn contributed to the fall of Communism), and the attempt on his life in 1981.

Fair enough. The one is ruled out, I suppose.


... please don't kill the Pope.

 

[e of pi]

Fair enough. The one is ruled out, I suppose.


... please don't kill the Pope.

I wasn't talking to Brainbin as much about his planning when he made that decision and might be wrong, but I think a large part of butterflying to this guy over John Paul I was to not have to go through the research on papal politics involved in picking a pope twice.

 

[varyar]

I wasn't talking to Brainbin as much about his planning when he made that decision and might be wrong, but I think a large part of butterflying to this guy over John Paul I was to not have to go through the research on papal politics involved in picking a pope twice.

Heh. Fair enough

 

[Dan1988]

Fair enough. The one is ruled out, I suppose.


... please don't kill the Pope.

Like I mentioned earlier, the OTL Cardinal lived until 1993. We could probably assume the same in TTL, maybe even add on a couple years if need be. But that's another story altogether (and it would be interesting to see a TL that concentrates on a Cardinal Baggio Papacy).