That Wacky Redhead

[stevep]

ZERO.

(Cue music from Star Trek: First Contact)

Guys

Presuming you mean 100 pages and since, as far as I'm aware, I'm still on the default settings, not yet. You guys are too laconic. Definitely no would-be politicians here.

Now have we made it yet?

Steve

PS - Bingo, mission accomplished. Now where's our new update reward?

Have to be before Saturday as I'm going to be off for a week.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

I never understood why WKRP didn't do better in the ratings and only lasted 4 years. Interesting and diverse set of characters played by more than competent comedic actors. Decent plots set in an environment capable of 'plausibly' creating funny and wacky situations.

In my memory bin of 70's comedies WKRP was, to quote Ron Burgundy, "Kind of a big deal."

 

[Andrew T]

I never understood why WKRP didn't do better in the ratings and only lasted 4 years. Interesting and diverse set of characters played by more than competent comedic actors. Decent plots set in an environment capable of 'plausibly' creating funny and wacky situations.

In my memory bin of 70's comedies WKRP was, to quote Ron Burgundy, "Kind of a big deal."

Wikipedia strongly suggests that the primary problem was due to WKRP being repeatedly jerked around among multiple different timeslots. That's pretty much a series-killer. Given a consistent timeslot and smarter management, WKRP could have been as much of a success in its original broadcast run as in syndication.

 

[phx1138]

repeatedly jerked around among multiple different timeslots.

I have a more reliable reason: I liked it from the very first episode. (I'm almost never wrong: "Eischeid", "Baa Baa Black Sheep" {not helped by an ambiguous title, I know}, "Chicago Code", "The Good Guys".... (That's not looking good for "Perception"...)

Meanwhile, shows I can't stand are huge hits: "ER", frex.

I missed a couple of early episodes of "HSB" & "24", which saved it, thought the idea for "Magnum" & "Simon & Simon" was stupid, & was sure "Buffy" was a joke (judging by the movie). Look what happened.

I'm also fairly sure the only reason "NYPD Blue" lasted so long is because, for the first two seasons, all I really cared about was seeing Amy Brenneman's butt. (It took me about that long to really realize how good the show was, & how much I was liking it.)

I never understood why WKRP didn't do better in the ratings and only lasted 4 years....

In my memory bin of 70's comedies WKRP was, to quote Ron Burgundy, "Kind of a big deal."

It was. Based on my recollection, there was consistently high quality & despite characters that would have lent themselves to farce, about the only really absurd thing they did was Herb's suits.

Also: Hoorah for making 100!

 

[e of pi]

Hooray for 100! Anyway, as a bit of penance for my rather contentless bump, I'll note my own introduction to WKRP. I'm way, way too young to have seen it when it actually aired--instead, it was my parents, and particularly my dad who was a fan. They got to like it in syndication, but that meant there were certain episodes they never saw--hence, it was in fact the first thing we ever got from Netflix, and that was my introduction to the show. I was probably a bit young for it at the time, but I do have fairly fond memories of watching it with my dad. Ironically, now that I live in the Cincinnati area, I can't find any good radio stations.

 

[phx1138]

I live in the Cincinnati area, I can't find any good radio stations.

So you're a loyal listener of WKRP?

 

[Brainbin]

Well, it appears that we've reached 100 pages, the last milestone we're likely to reach that is an order of magnitude over base 10 (as either one million views or 10,000 replies does strike even me as a bridge too far, not that I'm doubting your ability to do it) - with another major milestone (2,000 posts) within our grasp. Also, I have my own personal milestone celebration, as this post marks my 250th to this timeline, putting me back into an undisputed second place in my own thread (after a lengthy spell at third).

But thank you all for participating in that delightful countdown! Now we've made it, and this thread has a page count in the triple digits. My sympathy for anyone who tries to read it from the beginning - and my admiration for anyone who manages to pull off same - continues to grow Now, with all that said, as always...

Also: "Something Old, Nothing New" -- a.k.a. that Very Special Episode in which Venus Flytrap explains the atom.

Would I be correct in assuming that this is some sort of in-joke? Because I've searched and searched and can't find such an episode from the original series or the later revival. The only yield from a search using those keywords is a classic television blog of the same name which occasionally mentions WKRP - which is admittedly a good find.

I was stationed in Alameda during the period and aboard one of the four nuclear "wessels" there. Doohan did make a visit to Alameda supposedly scouting for locations. I remember an article in the base newspaper complete with a photo of Doohan joking around with the base commander in his office. Sadly, none of the movie was shot in Alameda.

It's great that you were there at the same time as the movie - that must have been fun, after it came out (I also seem to have a conspicuously large number of people connected to aviation reading my timeline - not that I'm complaining!). With regards to Doohan, I strongly suspect he just wanted to tour the base, as he himself was an avid fan of aviation, often flying around during World War II (even though he was an artilleryman and had no business anywhere near a plane).

In fact, IIRC, Ranger stood in for Enterprise in the movie as the latter wasn't available for whatever reason.

From my understanding, the U.S. Navy didn't want film crews anywhere near the "Big E" in order to protect classified information. Who knows how true that party line is.

Congratulations! The success is well deserved.

Thank you very much!

Not that I am an expert on Three's Company by any means, but I am glad to hear it. I am not saying Don Knotts was bad, it was just a different dynamic with him. He was more Larry Part II: The Older Years.

Agreed. The Ropers added more variety to the sexual humour, whereas Furley merely created a redundancy (all of the men were now swinging singles), not to mention that his refusal to allow Jack to "come out", so to speak, seemed very arbitrary and out-of-character. Mr. Roper would have a problem with that living arrangement, but Furley? No way.

Oh my, I completely forgot about Batman And Robin. How can one forget about Batman and Robin? I know Mr. Clooney wishes we all would, and now that I remember it I wish I could go back to forgetting it... But yeah, enough said on that particular role.

Batman and Robin is instructive in that it demonstrates the difference between how to deliver camp deadpan well (Adam West), and how to do it poorly (Clooney, obviously).

This is probably where he does shine, where he can play a smug, jerk of a character. After a while, though, his personality starts to wear.

Yes, that's right, he can "play" a smug jerk with a wearying personality. He does it so well, too

As his success shows he has tons of fans who would love to see him in any venue.

His success at the box-office, you mean? I'm afraid he has no such success. Unless you count the Ocean's movies (and again, those are massive ensemble pictures).

Yes indeed! Not by choice, as I was only 6 or 7 if I recall. Long before I would get my own TV. But my parents, and more specifically my mother watched just about any medical show that was on. So I got to watch them too, if I wanted to watch TV at all. I recall Clooney was a wise cracking orderly or something. He would roll in a gurney, make a wisecrack, and roll out.

That sure sounds like 1980s-vintage Clooney, all right. Probably out-acted by everyone else in the cast, too. But I'm glad that somebody's actually seen it!

I did know that, but never understood it. Of course, I never knew why everybody thought Farrah was great-looking, either.

And they were the two great sitcom sex symbols of the late 1970s. And I've butterflied both of them away ITTL (yes, that's right, Farrah is gone too).

Brace yourself: we agree.

And about time, too!

Why am I not even a little surprised you know that?

I make it my business to know things like that

You don't suppose she's drawing on life experience? (That could explain the three divorces...)

Sheesh, so catty! I hope you never meet any of these people...

I preferred Fell, but that's colored by the fact I could never stand Don Knotts.

You must have been thrilled when he left The Andy Griffith Show, then. (Not that he didn't come back - two of the five Emmys he won as Barney Fife were for guest appearances after the fact. He's also the first of many, many performers to win way too many consecutive Emmys for the same role).

I claim no credit. You make it easy. The success is well-deserved. Congrats.

Thank you

And now, to recap the epic countdown!

Now, everybody bump to hit 100.

Doing my part...

Thanks for an excuse to bump it again.

Back at'cha.

How many posts do we need to make it to 100?

Seven after this. Or is it eight?

Would you believe six?

Counting down from ten? Why, you'd almost think this was a spaceflight thread! Go at five!

...four.

Three.

Two.

ONE.

ZERO.

(Cue music from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan)

And by the way, JJohnson, I'm glad you're still reading! However, I felt the need to correct a small typo in your post, I hope you don't mind

(Obviously, this is the song I had in mind. And by the way? Best. Star Trek Movie. Ever. Though that should go without saying.)

Guys

Presuming you mean 100 pages and since, as far as I'm aware, I'm still on the default settings, not yet. You guys are too laconic. Definitely no would-be politicians here.

Now have we made it yet?

Steve

PS - Bingo, mission accomplished. Now where's our new update reward?

But I have to give the No-Prize for Crossing the Triple-Digit Page Count Threshold to Steve, who claimed Post #1981 (and wait a minute, we're getting into years-of-birth territory here! Guess who gets to claim Post #1987, then? ). And now there are only thirteen posts remaining until we reach #2000

Have to be before Saturday as I'm going to be off for a week.

I'm actually working on two updates simultaneously: one Proper Update and another special, experimental feature which will likely be ready first, and I'll do my best to get it ready for all of you as soon as possible. If it goes over well, then I think I have the perfect "interlude"-style posts to fill the gaps between updates...

I never understood why WKRP didn't do better in the ratings and only lasted 4 years. Interesting and diverse set of characters played by more than competent comedic actors. Decent plots set in an environment capable of 'plausibly' creating funny and wacky situations.

Welcome aboard, High Plains Drifter! I must say, it never ceases to amaze me, the seemingly-random topics of discussion which catch on and take hold in my thread - it reminds me of our spirited Scooby-Doo discussion, actually. With regards to the show's original run - since one of the central foci of this timeline only ran for three years IOTL, I find it hard to sympathize with a show that ran for four - especially since there are so many one-season wonders out there. WKRP did quite well for itself, it must be said - and (like Star Trek) saw a massive resurgence in syndication, which at least secured its reputation (as this thread so obviously proves!).

Wikipedia strongly suggests that the primary problem was due to WKRP being repeatedly jerked around among multiple different timeslots. That's pretty much a series-killer. Given a consistent timeslot and smarter management, WKRP could have been as much of a success in its original broadcast run as in syndication.

Shifting timeslots is obviously nothing new; the very same fate befell Star Trek before it was finally stuck in the Friday Night Death Slot IOTL (meanwhile, as OTL and TTL have shown, Monday 7:30 was remarkably plum c. 1970). However, I can't help but feel that you're hinting at something there, Andrew

I have a more reliable reason: I liked it from the very first episode. (I'm almost never wrong: "Eischeid", "Baa Baa Black Sheep" {not helped by an ambiguous title, I know}, "Chicago Code", "The Good Guys"....

Sorry I couldn't save that one, by the way. The thought of Gilligan and Stanley Zbornak together in a hit sitcom does tickle me, but it wasn't meant to be...

I'm also fairly sure the only reason "NYPD Blue" lasted so long is because, for the first two seasons, all I really cared about was seeing Amy Brenneman's butt.

Yes, you've already mentioned your fixation on her posterior, thank you very much. (Seriously, you really have. Look it up!)

Also: Hoorah for making 100!

And thanks for helping! You've done more than your share, Mr. Most-Prolific-Poster-To-This-Thread

Hooray for 100! Anyway, as a bit of penance for my rather contentless bump, I'll note my own introduction to WKRP. I'm way, way too young to have seen it when it actually aired--instead, it was my parents, and particularly my dad who was a fan. They got to like it in syndication, but that meant there were certain episodes they never saw--hence, it was in fact the first thing we ever got from Netflix, and that was my introduction to the show. I was probably a bit young for it at the time, but I do have fairly fond memories of watching it with my dad.

And since e of pi let the cat out of the bag, I'll reveal that he was the first to ask after WKRP ITTL, which he did privately. He was obviously not the last!

Ironically, now that I live in the Cincinnati area, I can't find any good radio stations.

Well of course not! The last halfway-decent one went off the air in 1982

 

[The Blue-Eyed Infidel]

Would I be correct in assuming that this is some sort of in-joke? Because I've searched and searched and can't find such an episode from the original series or the later revival. The only yield from a search using those keywords is a classic television blog of the same name which occasionally mentions WKRP - which is admittedly a good find.

Strange, I found it rather easily on the Genocide's List of WKRP in Cincinnati Episodes; Episode 58 (Venus and The Man).

TB-ES

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Welcome aboard, High Plains Drifter!

Thanks for taking my call Dr Brainbin. Love the show. Long time listener, first time caller.

My question, where is Clint Howard?

 

[Andrew T]

Would I be correct in assuming that this is some sort of in-joke? Because I've searched and searched and can't find such an episode from the original series or the later revival. The only yield from a search using those keywords is a classic television blog of the same name which occasionally mentions WKRP - which is admittedly a good find.

Episode 58, "Venus and the Man" -- not sure how I transposed the title; I think it's because I had my research window up for Dirty Laundry at the time. (Have you ever tried to write like Roger Ebert? It's harder than it looks!)

The clip is, of course, available on Youtube. I can't imagine you haven't seen it.

Batman and Robin is instructive in that it demonstrates the difference between how to deliver camp deadpan well (Adam West), and how to do it poorly (Clooney, obviously).

It's a bit unfair to compare anyone to West, don't you think?

And they were the two great sitcom sex symbols of the late 1970s. And I've butterflied both of them away ITTL (yes, that's right, Farrah is gone too).

I suppose it's only fitting, since you ignomiously dispatched Lee Majors into obscurity. Perhaps they'll stay married ITTL.

However, I can't help but feel that you're hinting at something there, Andrew

Hinting for WKRP. When Soap comes around, it'll be full-fledged lobbying, though.

Yes, you've (phx1138) already mentioned your fixation on her posterior, thank you very much.

I can't say I share phx1138's fascination with Amy Brenneman (or any portion of her anatomy), but I do think it's interesting when an actress's first role comes at age 30.

 

[phx1138]

putting me back into an undisputed second place in my own thread (after a lengthy spell at third).

Then again, you're spending the time & effort to give us the good stuff. All we've got to do is tell you how great we think it is. That's much less taxing on the brain.

Would I be correct in assuming that this is some sort of in-joke? Because I've searched and searched and can't find such an episode from the original series or the later revival.

That title doesn't ring a bell, but the episode sure does. He was explaining to a gang kid.

the Ocean's movies

Which are a cheap excuse for a caper film IMO. And an insult to the Rat Pack.

I've butterflied both of them away ITTL (yes, that's right, Farrah is gone too).

Neither will be missed by me.

And about time, too!

It does have to happen once in a rare while, I suppose.

I make it my business to know things like that

I knew that.

Sheesh, so catty!

Seriously, they've been happily married how long, now? And the joke wouldn't have worked if they weren't.

You must have been thrilled when he left The Andy Griffith Show, then.

Truth to tell, I didn't care, since I never watched it AFAICR. In fact, IIRC, we never even got it here.

years-of-birth territory

You got mine... (It was a good one, tho.)

especially since there are so many one-season wonders out there

I'll give you good odds I liked most of them from the start, too.

I can't help but feel that you're hinting at something there, Andrew

If he's not hinting, I'll just say it outright: give "WKRP" a better break, won't you? It doesn't have to go as long as "M*A*S*H" did OTL, but, IDK, as long as "Barney Miller"? (Speaking of which, a couple more years there wouldn't do anybody any harm, either.)

Sorry I couldn't save that one, by the way. The thought of Gilligan and Stanley Zbornak together in a hit sitcom does tickle me, but it wasn't meant to be...

Are we talking about the same shows...?

Yes, you've already mentioned your fixation on her posterior, thank you very much. (Seriously, you really have. Look it up!)

That was over 1700 posts ago. You don't really think I'd remember, do you? I'm lucky if I remember what I said in my last one.

And thanks for helping! You've done more than your share, Mr. Most-Prolific-Poster-To-This-Thread

Just doing my part, while you do the heavy lifting.

Well of course not! The last halfway-decent one went off the air in 1982

It's a bit unfair to compare anyone to West, don't you think?

Oh, I dunno, David Hasselhoff comes immediately to mind... Patrick Labyorteaux, too.

When Soap comes around, it'll be full-fledged lobbying, though.

Do serious harm to "Soap", I may go looking for my torch & stake...

OTOH, if all you do is let it survive long enough to resolve the cliffhanger...

I can't say I share phx1138's fascination with Amy Brenneman (or any portion of her anatomy), but I do think it's interesting when an actress's first role comes at age 30.

It wasn't her, in particular, as much as it was it being readily visible on network TV. (It's not like it was "GI Jane", or anything.)

 

[Brainbin]

Star Trek Episode Guide: "The Lorelei Signal"

Hello, everyone, and welcome to a pilot project I’m sharing with you, which provides some wiki-style information on the various episodes of Star Trek that were never made IOTL. I’m very curious as to what you all think of this, because if they meet with your approval, whenever there are lulls in regular updates, I’ll try my best to throw together one of these. We’ll begin with “The Lorelei Signal”, an important episode within the context of TTL – the great feminist rallying cry, and one of the relatively few episodes where the series is allowed to break out of its rather unfortunately dated late-1960s sexist attitudes (about which, to their credit, female fans IOTL have always been remarkably forgiving – this one is a bone I’m throwing to you). D.C. Fontana and Nichelle Nichols also get to break some more important ground on a show that “counts” vs. TAS.

---

These are the four credit frames of “The Lorelei Signal”, in the standard format of the last two seasons. Note, first and foremost, the endurance of the gold-coloured font (it was switched to an electric blue for the Turd Season IOTL). Note also the previously mentioned “co-starring” frame, a compromise between adding the more prominent of these cast members (principally Doohan) into the opening titles and leaving the situation as it was in the first three seasons (wherein the regulars were lucky if they were listed as “featured” or “with” instead of “guest star” actors on their own show). The format justification for the title proper is borrowed from “The Doomsday Machine” IOTL.

Production Information

Also Known As: “The One with the Amazon Planet” or “The One with Captain Uhura” (though this is neither the first nor the last episode wherein Uhura has the conn.)
Original Airdate: Monday, October 13, 1969, at 7:30 PM EST
Viewership Rating: 23.9, or 14 million viewers (#8 overall for that week)
Production Order: 04-07
Broadcast Order: 04-04
Written By: D.C. Fontana (teleplay); Margaret Armen and D.C. Fontana (story)
Directed By: Marc Daniels
Music Composed And Conducted By: Alexander Courage (yes, Sandy came back, as he did a few times in season 3 IOTL and ITTL.)

Plot Synopsis

The Enterprise is exploring a region of space where numerous Earth (and later Federation) ships have disappeared without a trace; rare peaceful discussions with Klingon and Romulan emissaries have revealed the same to be true for them. It soon becomes clear that the epicentre of the disappearances can be traced to a single region in the Libran system; the second planet is quickly discovered to have intelligent life, as curious signals appear to be emanating from there. Lt. Cmdr. Uhura is the first to detect these signals; however, the other bridge officers describe the sounds generated by them as unusually pleasant and enchanting, whereas she (and the only other woman on the bridge at that moment, Yeoman Tamura) claim to notice nothing that could possibly match their laudatory assessments; though she does observe that subspace interference now prevents them from hearing anything else. The same is true in Sickbay, where Dr. McCoy has similar experiences to those of the men on the bridge, but Nurse Chapel is likewise unmoved. This oddly schismatic gender-based responses to these mysterious signals are, however, largely dismissed, as Kirk, Spock, Bones, and a trio of redshirts promptly beam down to further investigate; they quickly find themselves in a trap lain by the natives of Libra II. (In the aired episode, Taurus II, reused from “The Galileo Seven”.)

The Librans are described as a cross between “sirens” (given their ability to lure and bewitch the male crewmembers of the Enterprise) and “Amazonians”, given their matriarchal society (to the point that no freemen are shown to exist at all), and phenomenal physical strength (to the point that neither Kirk nor Spock can successfully subdue them with brute force). Their leader, Daria, quickly makes plain that her society, unable to produce male offspring and thus perpetuate their species naturally, requires a steady source of drones; the crewmen from the Enterprise will serve as their newest stock, living lives of relative leisure. Kirk and Spock flatly refuse her “offer”, and are thus taken captive. Though Daria promises that the men will come to enjoy their new lives, nobody is convinced, and coercion will be required. The Librans are gifted with telepathic abilities, allowing them to lure the men back aboard the Enterprise into a stupor, or perhaps (if their will is sufficiently weak) to abandon ship altogether. (Daria had no name in the episode as aired IOTL, though script notes indicate that her name is “Dara”. Daria sounds more “alien” while also bearing an obvious resemblance to a certain fictional character IOTL.)

We return to the USS Enterprise, where (after some time has passed) there continues to be no word from the landing party, which worries the female crew members, though the men are acting very strangely indeed. Lt. Cmdr. Uhura, who feels herself compelled to usurp command from the bizarrely ineffectual Mr. Scott (and as many crewmen fail to report to their job assignments), records a Captain’s Log in which she states her reasons for doing so, and (as Acting Captain) assembles an all-female command crew to determine their next course of action. Lt. Cmdr. Ann Mulhall is named Acting First Officer (and Science Officer); Lt. (and Nurse) Chapel is named Acting Chief Medical Officer; and Lt. Angela Martine is named Acting Tactical Officer. Yeoman Tamura is placed in charge of security. When it becomes clear that the men are sneaking down to the planet, conditions unravel into an organizational nightmare: key personnel (including Scotty) are placed under arrest, while the ranking female officers aboard are required to assume full control of the many ship departments, all of which are now understaffed. Strong and decisive leadership, however, remains their most pressing need.

Meanwhile, though Kirk and Spock are able to largely resist the enchantments placed on them by the enemy aliens, they are not able to effectively defeat them, and are eventually forced to flee in hopes of re-establishing communications with the Enterprise. However, interference is too strong for them to do so, and they are driven to take refuge in a makeshift shelter for the remainder of the ordeal; the inclement weather that is typical of the planet’s climate proves threatening their longer-term safety…

(Yes, the infamous “Kirk and Spock in a cave” chestnut actually happens in canon ITTL – IOTL, they were trapped in a flooded crater – though there obviously isn’t anything untoward that happens as a result. Well, apart from the apparent “subtext”, at least. You know how slashers are – and they would have a picnic with this episode.)

Back aboard the Enterprise, all of the men have either been imprisoned by the women (in the case of Scotty, who remains in a state of confusion with only his technical journals for consolation), or have beamed down to the planet (in the case of most of the rest of them), and the women-only crew is straining under the multiple urgent responsibilities they are facing. However, they prove more than able to keep the Enterprise in orbit, and all of the ship’s systems in good working order, while the new acting command crew formulates a plan to infiltrate the enemy base. Uhura, just as Kirk had done before her, leads the charge. She is accompanied by Nurse Chapel (who is expected to provide medical support, however uncomfortable she may be with Dr. McCoy’s medkit), Lt. Martine, Yeoman Tamura, and two unnamed female security officers. Lt. Cmdr. Mulhall is asked to remain aboard the Enterprise, and attempt to escape and contact the Federation with her skeleton crew if the team cannot affect rescue.

Though it is difficult to beam down, given the increasingly inclement weather, all six of the rescuers arrive safely; though they almost immediately find themselves engaging the enemy. The aliens, though excellent physical combatants, have little experience with advanced firearms, and are defeated with only minimal casualties on the part of the Enterprise crewmen (sadly, both of the unnamed female security officers were among them). Uhura, ever the capable leader, finally corners the ruler of the alien society and orders her to release her spell upon the male crewmembers; when it becomes clear that Kirk and Spock are missing, the new task becomes their immediate rescue. Fortunately, with the interference on the part of the Librans now eliminated, the two senior-most officers are quickly located and saved from imminent peril. All’s well that ends well.

At the conclusion of the episode, Lt. Cmdr. Uhura returns command of the Enterprise to Kirk, who in accepting it confirms the legitimacy of her potentially mutinous actions. He records a log, commending all of the women of the ship for their courage and grace under pressure, and offers a special citation to Uhura, “one of the most distinguished officers serving aboard this ship”. Uhura, flattered and humbled by his remarks, is taken aback, and says “Thank you, Captain”, only for Kirk to reply “No, thank you, Acting Captain.”

And with that, the Enterprise flies off for parts unknown…

Additional Information

• Lt. Cmdr. Uhura’s first name, Penda, is revealed in this episode. However, neither she nor Captain Kirk use it when recording their logs, and it is only spoken by Nurse Chapel, which would seem to indicate that it is not used professionally.
• This is the first episode to feature all five recurring female characters (excluding the long-since-departed Janice Rand): Lt. Cmdr. Uhura, Nurse Chapel, Lt. Cmdr. Mulhall, Lt. Martine, and Yeoman Tamura. Only the two-part series finale would also feature all five characters.
• In this episode, it is stated (by Lt. Cmdr. Mulhall) that the Enterprise requires a crew complement of “over 100” in order to continue “operating at 95% efficiency”. Script notes indicate that this requires approximately one-quarter of the 430 officers and crew (or 108 people total). The Enterprise was shown to be operational in “The Ultimate Computer”, with only 20 crewmen aboard, however the M-5 computer was controlling most of the ship’s systems; in addition, the Enterprise was at no point in that episode in orbit of a planet, and maintaining orbit has repeatedly shown to be a taxing and labour-intensive process.
• This episode establishes that, of the 430 crew members of the Enterprise, 130 (just over 30%) are women. This episode also establishes Lt. Cmdr. Uhura as the highest-ranking of these. In other episodes, she is shown to be outranked by Kirk, Spock, Scotty, and Sulu, making her the fourth officer (or fifth-in-command) of the Enterprise.
• This is the only episode in which female security officers (or “redshirts”) are killed in combat onscreen.
  
• George Takei (Sulu) and John Winston (Kyle) do not appear in the episode, though Kyle (as “the transporter chief”) is mentioned.
• Nurse Chapel’s frustrated line “I’m a nurse, not a doctor!” was suggested by DeForest Kelley.
• All four of the principal actresses in the episode (Nichelle Nichols, Majel Barrett, Barbara Baldavin, and Diana Muldaur) cite it as their favourite.
• This episode is the first to establish the “clique” of core female officers aboard the Enterprise, who were devised by D.C. Fontana in order to allow Uhura and Chapel to interact with other women (without diminishing their contributions to the Enterprise).
• Uhura’s line to Mulhall as she departs to lead the landing party (“If we’re caught – if there’s a trap – we need you here”) echoes a similar line delivered by Kirk to Spock in “The Corbomite Maneuver”.

---

You may note that, in addition to the OTL version of “The Lorelei Signal”, this episode also resembles “This Side of Paradise”, “The Cage”/“The Menagerie”, and the TTL-only episode “Bondage and Freedom”; Fontana had a hand in writing both the first and the last of these. It is a truth universally acknowledged that Star Trek has always tended to recycle the same basic plot elements, which ITTL creates a mounting feeling of “staleness” and increasingly derivative stories. However, when there is a relatively fresh spin on an idea, as is the case here, the resulting episode is well-received; “Lorelei” is generally considered a solid episode ITTL, if not among the very best.

To find out more about the OTL version of “The Lorelei Signal”, you can visit its page on Memory Alpha right here. There are some moderate differences in plot and pacing; this is obviously a more “mature” and thought-provoking episode than a half-hour cartoon version would be, though gender politics are still given a relatively light touch.

 

[phx1138]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to a pilot project

Allow me to be first to say, I welcome the insights.

Written By: D.C. Fontana (teleplay); Margaret Armen and D.C. Fontana (story)

I especially like knowing this was both story & teleplay by women. (I didn't recall it being so from "TAS".)

Daria...bearing an obvious resemblance to a certain fictional character IOTL.

I thought "ST" was done with space vampires. And Julie cool:, even if she is a blonde) was too young. (Sharon Tate, OTOH....)

Meanwhile, though Kirk and Spock are able to largely resist the enchantments placed on them by the enemy aliens

Even D.C. couldn't resist doing that....

apart from the apparent “subtext”

I can't help thinking of Spike & a breaking tree branch, here, somehow. ("We happy few".)

Lt. Cmdr. Uhura’s first name, Penda, is revealed in this episode.

However, neither she nor Captain Kirk use it when recording their logs, and it is only spoken by Nurse Chapel, which would seem to indicate that it is not used professionally.

It also implies it's only for use among her friends, which wouldn't be out of the question for a USN capital ship...tho IMO, starships should be closer to subs, & so it would be usual for officers to be more familiar. (Just one more flaw in the show's treatment of Starfleet...)

it is stated (by Lt. Cmdr. Mulhall) that the Enterprise requires a crew complement of “over 100” in order to continue “operating at 95% efficiency”. Script notes indicate that this requires approximately one-quarter of the 430 officers and crew (or 108 people total). The Enterprise was shown to be operational in “The Ultimate Computer”, with only 20 crewmen aboard, however the M-5 computer was controlling most of the ship’s systems; in addition, the Enterprise was at no point in that episode in orbit of a planet, and maintaining orbit has repeatedly shown to be a taxing and labour-intensive process.

I don't see how maintaining orbit would be any harder, myself. Here's another case of misunderstanding: each shift would be about 1/3 of total complement, so with a normal complement of 430, the usual would be about 140 on duty station, 140 off-duty, & 140 asleep, assuming they don't do 12 off, 12 on (or go to a four-shift rotation). That 20 would be about the bare minimum (skeleton) crew she'd need to work at all, which gives you an idea how overmanned she was... (Something the USN was, is, notorious for. Modern Swedish subs make do with much lower complements, with higher degree of automation.) It also reflects poor understanding of what machines would be able to do. Not to mention the ongoing mistrust of machines...

In other episodes, she is shown to be outranked by Kirk, Spock, Scotty, and Sulu

I had the sense she actually ranked Sulu, but he was "command line" & she wasn't... Which is something the "colors" seem to indicate, but the writers paid damn all attention to...

this is obviously a more “mature” and thought-provoking episode

TBH, I recall the "TAS" episode was pretty heavy-handed, & TTL's isn't a ton better: not subtle enough for me. Probably I'd still like it for the sheer coolness of Uhura being in charge. (I liked that a lot in "TAS". I was just about old enough to realize what a breakthrough it was.)

 

[Lord Insane]

Interesting that it took them more seasons to kill a female redshirt than in OTL (I am assuming Thompson's non-death falls under the subtle differences after Journey to Babel category, since By Any Other Name wasn't mentioned in the Season 2 overview).

 

[drakensis]

That looks good. I for one would like to see more such wiki entries

 

[Thande]

Looks rather convincing.

 

[Brainbin]

Thanks to everyone for their responses to my latest... pseudo-update

Strange, I found it rather easily on the Genocide's List of WKRP in Cincinnati Episodes; Episode 58 (Venus and The Man).

This is what I get for searching by title, rather than by plot summary.

Thanks for taking my call Dr Brainbin. Love the show. Long time listener, first time caller.

We're glad to have you listening! I hope that you will become a regular caller

My question, where is Clint Howard?

Graduating from high school? He's not doing all that much right about now. He did appear as Balok in "The Corbomite Maneuver" as he did IOTL, of course.

Episode 58, "Venus and the Man" -- not sure how I transposed the title; I think it's because I had my research window up for Dirty Laundry at the time. (Have you ever tried to write like Roger Ebert? It's harder than it looks!)

No, but I've tried writing dialogue which sounds like That Wacky Redhead (and not just any version thereof, either - specifically, the shrewd and cunning studio chief).

The clip is, of course, available on Youtube. I can't imagine you haven't seen it.

Looking at that clip, it's very easy to see why WKRP became so near and dear to so many people. It really illustrates the dichotomy of late-1970s sitcoms; it seems that they were either loud and outrageous (like Three's Company) or mellow and endearing (like WKRP, Taxi, and Barney Miller).

It's a bit unfair to compare anyone to West, don't you think?

I'll avoid being facetious here (as it would only be to get another dig in at Clooney) and grant you that point.

I suppose it's only fitting, since you ignomiously dispatched Lee Majors into obscurity. Perhaps they'll stay married ITTL.

Whether they do or not is basically academic, since I'll never have cause to mention either of them, but that's not a bad idea. Consider it canon!

Hinting for WKRP. When Soap comes around, it'll be full-fledged lobbying, though.

Any suggestions for who should play *Jodie? Billy Crystal is somewhat... occupied ITTL

Then again, you're spending the time & effort to give us the good stuff. All we've got to do is tell you how great we think it is. That's much less taxing on the brain.

But no less appreciated on my part than my updates are on yours

Seriously, they've been happily married how long, now? And the joke wouldn't have worked if they weren't.

I do love how delightfully random some Hollywood couplings have been. Mark Harmon and Pam Dawber? Sounds like someone drew their names out of a hat!

Truth to tell, I didn't care, since I never watched it AFAICR. In fact, IIRC, we never even got it here.

I find it hard to believe that one of the most popular American programs of the 1960s never found its way across the border back then.

I'll give you good odds I liked most of them from the start, too.

Since shows cancelled before their time have been a constant topic of discussion on this thread (and one of its pillars, after all, is an exemplar thereof), I'll share a one-season wonder that is near and dear to me: My So-Called Life. I was exposed to it at just the right age (one of my regular cable channels started airing reruns while I was in high school), and it shone brilliantly, before it was cruelly extinguished. But who knows if it would have been able to keep up that momentum? Sadly, we'll never know either way.

If he's not hinting, I'll just say it outright: give "WKRP" a better break, won't you? It doesn't have to go as long as "M*A*S*H" did OTL, but, IDK, as long as "Barney Miller"? (Speaking of which, a couple more years there wouldn't do anybody any harm, either.)

Hmmm, what's that? Should I tell them that there isn't going to be a spinoff ITTL, and Vigoda will be staying until the end? Well, I don't see why not...

Allow me to be first to say, I welcome the insights.

Thank you very much

I especially like knowing this was both story & teleplay by women. (I didn't recall it being so from "TAS".)

Armen wrote the OTL episode of TAS, as well (Fontana was the Story Editor and de facto showrunner for the entire first season).

Even D.C. couldn't resist doing that....

Hey, it's consistent with canon. (Remember "This Side of Paradise"?) Also, it happened in the OTL episode.

It also implies it's only for use among her friends, which wouldn't be out of the question for a USN capital ship...tho IMO, starships should be closer to subs, & so it would be usual for officers to be more familiar. (Just one more flaw in the show's treatment of Starfleet...)

I've stated that generally, only Nurse Chapel refers to her as "Penda" - I'm willing to drop the "generally". The men would certainly never call her that.

I don't see how maintaining orbit would be any harder, myself. Here's another case of misunderstanding: each shift would be about 1/3 of total complement, so with a normal complement of 430, the usual would be about 140 on duty station, 140 off-duty, & 140 asleep, assuming they don't do 12 off, 12 on (or go to a four-shift rotation). That 20 would be about the bare minimum (skeleton) crew she'd need to work at all, which gives you an idea how overmanned she was... (Something the USN was, is, notorious for. Modern Swedish subs make do with much lower complements, with higher degree of automation.) It also reflects poor understanding of what machines would be able to do. Not to mention the ongoing mistrust of machines...

Again, I'm projecting from canon. If we assume that the women continue to work in shifts (that's a little over 40 per shift), subtract those who are working in "extraneous" positions (mostly guarding the few remaining men, and then the six-member landing party when it beams down), we're looking at perhaps double the strength of the 20-member skeleton crew from "The Ultimate Computer", which (again) did not need to maintain orbit. That maintaining orbit is extremely strenuous is confirmed in many episodes IOTL (and ITTL) - surely that alone would trim their numerical superiority down to about parity with those levels. (We will assume that the remaining crew did not work in shifts while conducting the M-5 tests; the whole ordeal seems to have taken less time than would be needed for that.) It may be nonsensical, but at least it's internally consistent.

I had the sense she actually ranked Sulu, but he was "command line" & she wasn't... Which is something the "colors" seem to indicate, but the writers paid damn all attention to...

No, Sulu was clearly the ranking Lieutenant on board. He actually had the conn a number of times throughout the series IOTL.

TBH, I recall the "TAS" episode was pretty heavy-handed, & TTL's isn't a ton better: not subtle enough for me. Probably I'd still like it for the sheer coolness of Uhura being in charge. (I liked that a lot in "TAS". I was just about old enough to realize what a breakthrough it was.)

That's basically the selling point of this episode ITTL - obviously, the writers of Star Trek can't be too subtle; it's not in their nature. But it's a solid episode overall.

Interesting that it took them more seasons to kill a female redshirt than in OTL (I am assuming Thompson's non-death falls under the subtle differences after Journey to Babel category, since By Any Other Name wasn't mentioned in the Season 2 overview).

Excellent observation, LordInsane! You are correct; Coon remaining in charge quietly butterflied the only OTL onscreen female redshirt death (only to add these, ITTL).

That looks good. I for one would like to see more such wiki entries

Thank you, drakensis! Response seems fairly positive (though I would love to hear from more of you on the matter), so I think we might be seeing another one of these

Looks rather convincing.

Thank you, Thande! I'm glad you think so

 

[phx1138]

loud and outrageous (like Three's Company) or mellow and endearing (like WKRP, Taxi, and Barney Miller).

I think you've just nailed down why I didn't like "3C" & liked both "KRP" & "Barney Miller".

But no less appreciated on my part than my updates are on yours

Glad to be of service.

I do love how delightfully random some Hollywood couplings have been. Mark Harmon and Pam Dawber? Sounds like someone drew their names out of a hat!

The heart wants what the heart wants? Love is blind? (I borrowed the cliche bible from Crash Davis.)

I find it hard to believe that one of the most popular American programs of the 1960s never found its way across the border back then.

It may've made it to Toronto, Vancouver, even Calgary, but we were pretty backward out here: just the one CBC TV station (not even actually local IIRC). And it's perfectly possible I just never liked it, so never paid any attention.

Since shows cancelled before their time have been a constant topic of discussion on this thread (and one of its pillars, after all, is an exemplar thereof), I'll share a one-season wonder that is near and dear to me: My So-Called Life. I was exposed to it at just the right age (one of my regular cable channels started airing reruns while I was in high school), and it shone brilliantly, before it was cruelly extinguished. But who knows if it would have been able to keep up that momentum? Sadly, we'll never know either way.

That's the great thing about being in charge of your own TL: you can just handwave success. (Let's see, "DS9" replaces "TOS" & runs 15 years.... Nobody's ever heard of "Three's Company" or "Seinfeld", & Clooney is starring as a vampire on "BTVS".)

Hmmm, what's that? Should I tell them that there isn't going to be a spinoff ITTL, and Vigoda will be staying until the end? Well, I don't see why not...

I'm not unhappy with Vigoda leaving, myself. (Never liked "Fish".) I was thinking about the producers thinking they were out of ideas.

Thank you very much

Glad to.

Armen wrote the OTL episode of TAS, as well (Fontana was the Story Editor and de facto showrunner for the entire first season).

Too young to recall it. Nice to see.

Hey, it's consistent with canon. (Remember "This Side of Paradise"?) Also, it happened in the OTL episode.

Noted. Nor surprised.

I've stated that generally, only Nurse Chapel refers to her as "Penda" - I'm willing to drop the "generally". The men would certainly never call her that.

I was thinking from a broader standpoint: the writers were treating Enterprise like a cruiser, where use of "Mr" would be usual, instead of as a missile sub, where first name would be.

Again, I'm projecting from canon. If we assume that the women continue to work in shifts (that's a little over 40 per shift), subtract those who are working in "extraneous" positions (mostly guarding the few remaining men, and then the six-member landing party when it beams down), we're looking at perhaps double the strength of the 20-member skeleton crew from "The Ultimate Computer", which (again) did not need to maintain orbit. That maintaining orbit is extremely strenuous is confirmed in many episodes IOTL (and ITTL) - surely that alone would trim their numerical superiority down to about parity with those levels. (We will assume that the remaining crew did not work in shifts while conducting the M-5 tests; the whole ordeal seems to have taken less time than would be needed for that.) It may be nonsensical, but at least it's internally consistent.

As I do the math, & depending on how long the story actually lasts, I see a skeleton crew of 30-40 (allowing for orbit being hard, which is prima facie preposterous, even if it is canon), plus another 60-70 (counting all off-duty women) for other tasks: this qualifies as an "all hands emergency". Bear in mind, this wouldn't be "normal operations", so being able to ignore tasks that would routinely be done is legit; things like inspections of torpedoes, or phaser banks, or warp drive. (Nothing hazardous, just day-to-day maintenance.)

No, Sulu was clearly the ranking Lieutenant on board. He actually had the conn a number of times throughout the series IOTL.

I do recall that. I happen to think the writers were being stupid.

That's basically the selling point of this episode ITTL - obviously, the writers of Star Trek can't be too subtle; it's not in their nature. But it's a solid episode overall.

True, & no argument with it from that standpoint.

Excellent observation, LordInsane! You are correct; Coon remaining in charge quietly butterflied the only OTL onscreen female redshirt death.

Is my memory faulty, & there actually wasn't one in "Space Seed"?

 

[e of pi]

As I do the math, & depending on how long the story actually lasts, I see a skeleton crew of 30-40 (allowing for orbit being hard, which is prima facie preposterous, even if it is canon), plus another 60-70 (counting all off-duty women) for other tasks: this qualifies as an "all hands emergency". Bear in mind, this wouldn't be "normal operations", so being able to ignore tasks that would routinely be done is legit; things like inspections of torpedoes, or phaser banks, or warp drive. (Nothing hazardous, just day-to-day maintenance.)

Yeah, this is an all-hands situation, and a lot of day-to-day upkeep stuff could be skimped on in favor of the bare necessities. And if things do go on long enough to require a shift hand-off for people to get some rest, I'd expect to see a 2-shift setup, not 3--keeps more people available. If that happens, it could also make for a nice scene of Chapel of having to issue uppers (to those left on shift) and downers (for those ordered to their bunks) or requesting Uhura to issue orders to crew to actually leave their stations, go off-duty and rest. It would be 1) in emphasis of the spirit of the episode: these women are so duty-driven, just like the men of the crew we're more used to seeing that they find it hard to leave their stations and their fellows and 2) in line with actual situations IRL.

 

[phx1138]

Yeah, this is an all-hands situation, and a lot of day-to-day upkeep stuff could be skimped on in favor of the bare necessities. And if things do go on long enough to require a shift hand-off for people to get some rest, I'd expect to see a 2-shift setup, not 3--keeps more people available. If that happens, it could also make for a nice scene of Chapel of having to issue uppers (to those left on shift) and downers (for those ordered to their bunks) or requesting Uhura to issue orders to crew to actually leave their stations, go off-duty and rest. It would be 1) in emphasis of the spirit of the episode: these women are so duty-driven, just like the men of the crew we're more used to seeing that they find it hard to leave their stations and their fellows and 2) in line with actual situations IRL.

I entirely agree.

IMO, it also shows they're loyal to their male mates, willing to push the edges & (in a small way, in this case) risk the ship. It also allows illustration of passage of time, which the bare Stardate may not. (Added bonus: it offers the chance to clarify if the "Point 7" in the Stardate is the equivalent of a local hour or day, or what.)

There's another side, too: it could be used to illustrate differences in training. The yellowshirts know commanders/senior officers need to be rested, where reds & blues don't. Which also offers the opportunity to go further down the chain: who deputizes for Uhura?

And an aside for the Whosians. I happened to see "The Ghoul" (Gaumont, 1933) today on TCM, written by Roland Pertwee. Would he be The Doc's father?