What could turn Thanksgiving from a strictly American holiday to a western hemisphere centric holiday?
Thoughts? PODs?
Thoughts? PODs?
Thanksgiving Becomes a Pan-Western Hemisphere Celebration
- Thread starter AltHistoryNerd
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Are the growing and harvesting cycles in Central and South America as well-defined as the ones in North America? I'd imagine they are, in their own way, but I really don't know.
What if it's seen as more of a political celebration than a harvest celebration? Like a rejection of their colonial masters?
Modern Imperialism
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The United States taking over all of North America might help with this. That’s half the job right there. The rest of Americas adopt it like Japan adopted Christmas. Hollywood is still a thing and US is more involved in South America due to it controlling all of North America. This leads to more US cultural influences on region. Pan Americanism is more of a thing in this pod and US is more anti-colonialism(only towards Europeans not themselves).
This leads to thanksgiving becoming a holiday in places like this
This leads to thanksgiving becoming a holiday in places like this
That was a catholic celebration, in fact we eat turkey and pork among middle to upper class family in christmas, much more efficient.
Modern Imperialism
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The US is good at mainstreaming holidays to other cultures. Makes them more money too. Who doesn’t like a extra holiday to eat and drink and socialize with people
That is the thing, South Americans don't need Thanksgiving as we do that either in christmas or new yeark and among upper classed, in both dates
A catastrophic famine in South and Central America sometime around 1880s. The only thing that prevents a large-scale mass death scenario is American food aid. The Americans would introduce Thanksgiving to a starving population.
It could also inadvertently increase trade in the Western hemisphere
It could also inadvertently increase trade in the Western hemisphere
Modern Imperialism
Banned
Why not add extra day of that? It’s literally an excuse to do it more often.
Also the food you eat could be different. Maybe make it more Pan America holiday by making it a big feast where you have dishes from various different American cultures or other Americanized dishes.
The holiday also focuses more on brotherhood and companionship between all Americans north and south unlike otl.
Bolivar dream and ideas about Pan Americanism are mixed in there.
Or instead of focusing on our native Americans you make more parallels with Incas. Incas oddly seem like they could be mixed in there and made kid friendly. South America has a lot of its own native Americans elements it could add into the holiday to make it unique to Americans but still same holiday overall.
Koreans adopted Christmas as a legal holiday, even though they already had(and continue to have) lunar New Years and Chusok(more-or-less Thanksgiving). Mind you, Christmas isn't quite the big deal over here that it is in Christendom: more like Valentine's Day, with a longer build-up and the day off. And not really a family-oriented celebration.
Modern Imperialism
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Isn’t that because a lot of Koreans became catholic or Christians so aren’t they people who mostly celebrate it?
Yeah and that sound similar to japanese.
Still the point this...even before/at the same time thanksgiving was a holiday(that was very new, like glided age/ 1900), iberoamericans adopted christmas as their food consumption holiday gradually for the same things...show the newfound wealth and extra food.
The only ones celebrated thanksgiving are a few of dual USA-Colombia citizens, and their descendants
That is already one, we adopted Black Friday without the turkey day before.
FDR fiddled with the date, so we know society was willing to consider changes to Thanksgiving during his tenure. Perhaps a world in need of something like a super-charged Good Neighbor Policy sees the holiday exported as part of a shared cultural patrimony- as much about the meeting of cultures and the celebration of community as family or the harvest.
After all, a majority of Americans (in the broad sense, not just USAyans) identify as people who came here and found a bounty. It’s the kind of thing we mostly cringe at today, but certainly we can all imagine it selling in the thirties, right?
So perhaps a world where the ramp-up to WWII looks more vicious, the US makes a play for mutual defense and closer relations, and the Americas agree that it’s probably necessary to get even further in bed with the yanquis than IOTL.
And lo, the fourth Caballero is a turkey!
Pittsburgh’s been workshopping this expansion for a few years. Results are...mixed.
https://goodfoodpittsburgh.com/the-gobblerito-is-back-at-mad-mex/
After all, a majority of Americans (in the broad sense, not just USAyans) identify as people who came here and found a bounty. It’s the kind of thing we mostly cringe at today, but certainly we can all imagine it selling in the thirties, right?
So perhaps a world where the ramp-up to WWII looks more vicious, the US makes a play for mutual defense and closer relations, and the Americas agree that it’s probably necessary to get even further in bed with the yanquis than IOTL.
And lo, the fourth Caballero is a turkey!
Pittsburgh’s been workshopping this expansion for a few years. Results are...mixed.
https://goodfoodpittsburgh.com/the-gobblerito-is-back-at-mad-mex/
Modern Imperialism
Banned
If United States expanded across all North America that might have indirectly lead to some of South America holidays being butterfly away.
I am not the most well versed in Columbia holidays but how many ones do they have related to more national or cultural movements in its own history? Stuff like revolutions or wars? More American involvement in region makes the place more stable earlier on.
Maybe even America who now have border with Columbia who in this pod is its only border likely has a much greater impact on Columbia as a whole. They might have taken Panama or preferable bought it, but they could help prop a strong and stable Gran Columbia.
Columbia isn’t a threat to US even if they are successful at this. The US just has to worry about staying together from within but it’s actually borders are more secured and defensible as they can possibly be. Panama Columbia is all thick jungles and I even think lacks a road between them.
Gran Columbia would include otl Columbia, Venezuela, those three European colonies(forget the name always spell them wrong), Ecuador, and maybe parts of Peru.
It starts out as a giant banana republic and someone to help push and keep Europeans out of Western Hemisphere. But like South Korea in otl is slowly shifts towards being more democratic and well off like them down the line. Brazil just becomes an ally through increased trade. The US basically comes in region as a mediator a lot. They do want to rally Americans against European influence and can free trade bloc for themselves across the Western Hemisphere. South Americans killing each other would hinder that.
Argentina becomes a more mutual ally due to distance. They become a mini Spanish US in many ways. Due to US invest and support they actually become democratic and capitalist republic. Maybe even unite southern South America under the “United Provinces.
The US convinces Brazil to look away from Latin America and focus on industries, trade, and depending how early this is might take Portuguese colonies in Africa so they will care less what Argentina is doing south of them. This also would give Americans more trade and access to African market. Brazil is more focused on overseas then Spanish dominated South America. The 3 Spanish countries being Gran Columbia, United Province, and Peru.
The Americans even help Argentineans take Falkland Islands.
Basically make Americans more like Russia towards Europe and desire more regional hegemony. Once they take all of North America they would realize taking anymore is highly impractical and borders are actually nice as they are. They start building up and investing more into South America to not just increase trade but secure dominance over the Western Hemisphere.
Columbians take Mexico place as US southern neighbors.
US propaganda would like to hype revolutionary similarities from colonial eras and Bolivar who is often depicted side by side with Washington. Bolivar often being called South American Washington by Americans and even is highly respected among Spanish speaking Americans(they have a lot more now and aren’t as Anglo dominated even if it still leans somewhat that way. The do have to play nice somewhat with Spanish local elites to expand this far).
Thanksgiving could adopt more raza elements to it due to more Spanish influences in American society. Thanksgiving isn’t just a holiday of giving but a holiday where the “old world/Europeans” join together with the new world/natives to create a new unified people. “Viva la americano raze”. Long live the American race.
Thanksgiving in Anglo areas depicts pilgrims and natives like otl. Mexico has its own Aztec, Mayan, and Spanish elements. Caribbean has more Spanish and African elements.
Canada already has its own version - https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/07/world/canadian-thanksgiving-2019-trnd/index.html
Possibly that had something to do with it originally, but it's now a generally celebrated holiday, with lots of non-Christians at least going through the motions of exchanging gifts, tapping along to carols etc. They're already playing the Xmas music at my favorite coffee shop, and the tunes are almost entirely secular(not that a lot of people would understand the words anyway). My workplace puts up a small tree with lights, even though the owners aren't Christian(though some of the customers definitely are).
I'm not involved with Korean churches, but I'd imagine they make a bigger deal of it then the avergae non-Christian. Like I say, for most people, it's just another day off, with a specific set of trappings.
Interestingly, I've been told that Buddha's birthday didn't become a bank holiday until after Christmas did, as Buddhists were complaining about not getting the same recognition. Don't know any other details about that.