Terror attack on multiple shuttles (Launch Complex 39), mid-1980's?

This is sort of an AHC/WI/PC combination, or a more general discussion.

How plausible would it be for at least two and possibly even three space shuttles to be irreparably damaged in some sort of covert terror attack (I don't know much about bombs, but some sort of planted firebombing, or possibly a suicide attack?) during the mid-1980's (I.e. Pre-Challenger Disaster.)

Who would be most likely (or able) to carry out such an attack? The motivations could be anything, really. An expensive target meant to cripple American exceptionalism? Libyan or Iranian bitterness at their own rocket programs being limited by American meddling? I'm just spitballing here.

And finally, what would be the effects of such an attack? Obviously a military response is to be expected, but if rallying around the flag means rallying around the space program there could be some interesting developments near and long term regarding budgets, research, interest, and space exploration itself. Not to mention security for NASA, its facilities and personnel, and its projects...

Just had the thought and thought you'd all find it an interesting discussion topic.

Edit: The shuttles were all stored at the OPF-Kennedy near to one another, in Launch Complex 39.
 

Archibald

Banned
It would be considered a terrorist attack just like 9-11, and the answer would be massive bombing from the Air.

My wet dream is a join French - U.S attack against Lybia. France attacks from Chad, America bomb the shit from the Mediterranean before starting an amphibious landing. Ghaddafi was really, really pissing off both France and the United States at the time. While everybody reminds Operation El Dorado Canyon, France also bombed the shit out of Lybia from 1983 to 1988. Ghadaffi pulled aLockherbie, and blew an UTA DC-10 in September 1989.
There was also the strange case of Itavia DC-9 in 1980, which mysteriously crashed. Italy was also angered by Ghaddafi, who at some point even fired SCUDs across the Mediterranean, to Lampedusa.
 

Dom

Moderator
You have wet dreams about bombing countries which you cannot spell correctly?

Hi Ak-84,

What is this? This is a legitimate topic of discussion. Stop trying to shut it down.

You made an account nine years ago, but have only just started posting two weeks ago, and already got warned yesterday. Warning lights are flashing.

Thanks,
Dom
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
This is sort of an AHC/WI/PC combination, or a more general discussion.

How plausible would it be for at least two and possibly even three space shuttles to be irreparably damaged in some sort of covert terror attack (I don't know much about bombs, but some sort of planted firebombing, or possibly a suicide attack?) during the mid-1980's (I.e. Pre-Challenger Disaster.)

Who would be most likely (or able) to carry out such an attack?

How might terrorists infiltrate NASA? Or NASA security?

Once you have solved than conundrum, anything is possible.

Why go to such extraordinary lengths when you could just massacre US civilians at a Miami International departure lounge?
 
How might terrorists infiltrate NASA? Or NASA security?

Once you have solved than conundrum, anything is possible.

Why go to such extraordinary lengths when you could just massacre US civilians at a Miami International departure lounge?

Difficult-but I don't think impossible- to
be able to infiltrate NASA. I mean, in the
1980's @ least, was their security THAT good?(Who would have thought it would have been possible to crash a commercial
jet-liner right into The Pentagon?)

Your point, Wimbledon Toot, about killing
civilians in airport is a good one but-
& believe me, this is not offered in a callous,
pro-terrorist vein- is that striking @ the shuttles would be considered something new
& spectacular, & guaranteed to make the
biggest splash(which is probably why the
9/11 hijackers went to all the trouble they
did).
 
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Wimble Toot

Banned
Who would have thought it would have been possible to crash a commercial jet-liner right into The Pentagon?

The author of The Turner Diaries?

Tom Clancy had a 747 crashing into the Capitol long before 9/11

is that striking @ the shuttles would be considered something new & spectacular, & guaranteed to make the biggest splash.

How would it even be identified as a terrorist attack?

All that rocket propellant exploding would immolate those responsible as well as any victims

How would the world know for sure the attack WAS an attack, and not just an accident?
 
How would it even be identified as a terrorist attack?

All that rocket propellant exploding would immolate those responsible as well as any victims

How would the world know for sure the attack WAS an attack, and not just an accident?

Rewinding the security footage (safely recorded offsite) and seeing the Stinger missile strike the External Tank would be a hint.

Or if it were an IED: seeing the explosion initiate from a point that didn't have any NASA-approved pyrotechnics or igniters.
Then literally picking up every recoverable piece of Pad 39 and the Shuttle stack from the debris field, to check for explosive residue.
 
Rewinding the security footage (safely recorded offsite) and seeing the Stinger missile strike the External Tank Assembly would be a hint.

Or if it were an IED: seeing the explosion initiate from a point that didn't have any NASA-approved pyrotechnics or igniters. Then literally picking up and examining every recoverable piece of Pad 39 and the Shuttle stack to check for explosive residue.

Plus I'm sure whichever terrorist group
had done it would have been quick to take
responsibility.
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
Rewinding the security footage (safely recorded offsite) and seeing the Stinger missile strike the External Tank would be a hint.

You know the FIM-92 has a range of five miles?

I think the chances of him, and his weapon. whatever it is, getting that close without being discovered, is pretty remote
 
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You know the FIM-92 has a range of five miles?

Yeah, a terrorist would have to hide out in the wildlife refuge in a ghillie suit.
Assumes NASA didn't send a helicopter to scan the area with FLiR after closing it to the public (no idea if they do that, seems prudent but maybe not),
and can't deploy flares bright enough to fool the heatseeker, in the middle of a friggin' Shuttle launch with maybe 10 seconds warning (pretty sure not).
 
Just to throw out some ideas, what about these guys, or this incident? Would be interesting how the US responds to Puerto Rico- can't really bomb your own territories. And that incident was pretty sophisticated- TL, DR: the guys used simple but effective timers, had uniforms, waited for a shift change, scouted it out, took only 8 min to slip in, plant bombs, and slip out, and damaged 10 A7-D's and a F-104. Damaging the shuttles in a hangar would give them massive publicity, they could claim the shuttles were targeted to minimize casualties/ "US aims for the stars, but enslaves our people" rhetoric (sorry, not much of a motivational writer).
 
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In end of Apollo program were Terrorist threats to attack Apollo 17 Saturn V on launch Pad
NASA took that very serious and US Coast Guards, USAF and KSC security force were on Alert
http://www.nss.org/adastra/volume13/v13n6/contents/v13n6f5.pdf

But over time Security went lousy.
There were 2001 case were Illegal Chinese Immigrants arrive by Boat near Launch complex 40 and wandering around KSC until Security pict them up
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/07/06/space.center.immigrants/

And then this case
aa9c9ee9db22a9bae82920fe56a170f2.jpg

happens so far i know twice (one had Uncle Sam costume on)
They enter KSC airspace with small plane during a launch and sky jumping
After they landed the real fun begann...
 
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Oh i forgot


Oh that simpel: you smoking a cigarettes inside storage for Loaded Solid Rocket Booster segments at VAB...
what happen next look something like this:

And as 9/11 so sadly demonstrated, it
doesn't seem difficult for terrorist groups
to recruit volunteers for sucide missions.
 
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Yeah, a terrorist would have to hide out in the wildlife refuge in a ghillie suit.
Assumes NASA didn't send a helicopter to scan the area with FLiR after closing it to the public (no idea if they do that, seems prudent but maybe not),
and can't deploy flares bright enough to fool the heatseeker, in the middle of a friggin' Shuttle launch with maybe 10 seconds warning (pretty sure not).

My parents have a story about sneaking into the wildlife refuge to watch a shuttle launch in the mid 80's. According to them there were over three dozen people there, including one guy with a radio tuned to the frequency used between the shuttle and launch control. Anyways, at about 15 seconds before the launch, the shuttle reported one valve had failed, and radio guy immediately started packing up. My dad asked him why, and he said "That's a mission critical valve, there's no launch today." He'd been getting into the refuge on basically every flight. I'd think a team of dedicated enough terrorists would be more then capable of sneaking into the refuge with a Stinger or whatever their MANPADS flavor of choice was. Now getting back OUT might be a different story, no matter if the missle hit or not.
 
Actually, I see another potential showstopper: could the Shuttle outrun the Stinger?

Let's say our terrorists hide 6 km away in the wildlife refuge. They've already prepared the weapon for firing; NASA lights the main engines; it takes maybe 6 seconds for the Shuttle to clear the smoke (the flame trench is on their side of the launchpad) and present a nice hot target, another second for the weapon to lock onto it and let the operator fire (skipping the IFF check); then 10 seconds to fly to the target -- which is accelerating fast, straight upward. By T+17s, it's already at ~2500m altitude; gaining another 3.7 seconds respite. By T+20.7s, it's gained 1350m and 2 more seconds of respite; by T+22.7s it's gained another 790m and 1.2 seconds; then it's moot because the Stinger self-destructs 17 seconds into flight, still several hundred meters short of the target.

EDIT: wait, but the missile wouldn't stubbornly fly straight to where the Shuttle was 10 seconds ago, then turn; it'd be continuously adjusting its trajectory, and might or might not reach the Shuttle before time's up -- it'd depend critically on how fast the terrorist could line the weapon up and get a lock, once the Shuttle was clear of the smoke cloud. The "Stinger Team Operations" manual on Google Books makes it sound like it'd take several seconds: "Move the weapon using the target as a starting point and make two loops as in a figure-8. If you still cannot acquire the target, keep sighting and wait until the IR tone gets stronger."
 
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