terms of German-Soviet armistice Dec '41?

which is why, along with the fact they could not properly equip them, they could park Romanian troops on pre-war border of Dniester River? do you think that might be enough of a concession from Brest-Litovsk? (albeit my speculation is that Germany has captured Leningrad)

I'm sorry but I don't quite understand what you're saying? Do you mean that the deal would only require the Soviets to relinquish lands west of the Dniester? I could see the Soviets considering such an offer if things got bad enough, but it then falls back to the fact the Germans would never have accepted it.

As George Kennan pointed out in Russia and the West Under Lenin and Stalin, "The settlement accepted by the Allies at the end of the Russian Civil War--the arrangement, that is, that prevailed from 1920 to 1939--was considerably less favorable to Russia, territorially, in the Baltic-Polish region than that which the Germans imposed on Russia in 1918 [at Brest-Litovsk]." The idea that Hitler in December 1941--and a Hitler far more successful than in OTL, in that Leningrad has fallen--would settle for a peace remotely like this is...breathtaking.

for MY speculation it was for fairly expansive gains in the north, capture of Leningrad and ceding everything up to the White Sea, but a withdrawal to the Dniester River in the south. also the remainders of Soviet fleet in the Baltic and White Seas.

would note that German estimates were that Polish oil production could be increased greatly (incorrect but that was their thinking) and they would be holding that.
 
Minimum German gains:

Estonian oil shale, (Estonia plus some of Ingermanland)
Nikopol : Manganese
Galacia: Oil
Large chunks of Ukraine west of the Dnieper: Wheat

German wishes:, Kuban and Maikop for Agriculture and Oil

The Germans could give back in exchange for Maikop: Leningrad, even Minsk and Kiev, because the Germans don't want the population centers, but really need the oil.

under my scenario they would have Estonia and Galicia. not sure what grain was captured during 1941 & what they could have blackmailed out of Soviets for withdrawing back across the Dniester River (my speculative border)

Caucasus oil (IMO) was a mirage
 
The Nazis couldn't take Leningrad. Why would either side agree to terms in December 1941? For the Nazis it was a war of extermination. The USSR could not be allowed to exist, in any form. They wanted the total destruction of Bolshevism, the unconditional surrender of the USSR and the total destruction of the defeated people. Germany's war aims practically precluded any negotiated settlement.
 
The Nazis couldn't take Leningrad. Why would either side agree to terms in December 1941? For the Nazis it was a war of extermination. The USSR could not be allowed to exist, in any form. They wanted the total destruction of Bolshevism, the unconditional surrender of the USSR and the total destruction of the defeated people. Germany's war aims practically precluded any negotiated settlement.

In practice, while there was a lot of extermination OTL, Germany needed manpower too for the fields and factories and the Germans shifted their policy.

Also, German losses and Soviet resistance were more than expected.

Britain has recovered in the Med and the USA is getting more involved.

I am sure if just one guy changes his mind, (Hitler) and says we need to resolve this and the Soviets were willing, peace could be made. Guys like Goering and Goebbels would be relieved at this course of events, as well as their Italian allies. I don't see any Nazi political issues with peace.

In this TL, Germany is doing a little better with the fall of Leningrad. The future is unknown. The Soviets might see what they could get for free in negotiation (but consider it more of a cease fire than a treaty) vs risking a collapse in 1942.

However once the Soviet counter attack begins and the USA is in on December 7th no peace is possible. Worst case the Soviets just have to do like China and wait around for the inevitable victory.
 
In practice, while there was a lot of extermination OTL, Germany needed manpower too for the fields and factories and the Germans shifted their policy. Also, German losses and Soviet resistance were more than expected. Britain has recovered in the Med and the USA is getting more involved.

I am sure if just one guy changes his mind, (Hitler) and says we need to resolve this and the Soviets were willing, peace could be made. Guys like Goering and Goebbels would be relieved at this course of events, as well as their Italian allies. I don't see any Nazi political issues with peace.

In this TL, Germany is doing a little better with the fall of Leningrad. The future is unknown. The Soviets might see what they could get for free in negotiation (but consider it more of a cease fire than a treaty) vs risking a collapse in 1942.

However once the Soviet counter attack begins and the USA is in on December 7th no peace is possible. Worst case the Soviets just have to do like China and wait around for the inevitable victory.

no way to know what would develop during a pause in fighting on Eastern Front. the situation would be exactly as you describe "a cease fire not a peace treaty"

one thing is certain though the LW never had a pause on either front historically? my speculation they might try to rebuild the transport fleet with modern types, so as North Africa and points East could be reached by direct flight? as well as a long range maritime patrol aircraft?
 
I am sure if just one guy changes his mind, (Hitler) and says we need to resolve this and the Soviets were willing, peace could be made. Guys like Goering and Goebbels would be relieved at this course of events, as well as their Italian allies. I don't see any Nazi political issues with peace.

the whole idea of 1941 armistice sprung from reading about KM asking several times for declaration of war against the US, they might scheme that with Japan entering the war Anglo-American side can be forced out? (and they could turn back easily to Soviets?)
 
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