Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Entrerriano, Sep 4, 2019.
Can confirm. There is some really weird stuff. Won't spoil anything, but wait and see.
Still waiting for @Whiteshore ?
Anyways, I'm passing. Sorry about that.
So what you're saying is that you didn't actually make a map?
I suppose this teaser would be tolerate-able.
Wait, does this mean you were skipped? I must have missed the message, apologies if that was the case.
Anyway, brace yourselves...
I was born ready!
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you...
TELEPHONE MAP GAME 2!
Initial Map: @Entrerriano: "Slavic Twist"
"I've always wanted to do a map or timeline or whatever in a scenario where Pannonia is permanently settled by Slavs instead of being conquered by Avars, Bulgars or Magyars. So I decided to do this for the initial map, to see where that would take all of you.
I also left the surrounding countries completely blank, in order to allow all of you a lot more of creativity. Not much else to say about this, I hope you enjoyed the game!"
Entrerriano's map went to Reepicheep, Brenok and IcyCaspian
List 1: "Turkey is the new Russia"
Map 1: @Reepicheep
"The map I received from Entrerriano had a bunch of interesting implications. What really caught my eye was the potential ramifications of an alternate Migration Period in which Slavic settlers coalesced in Pannonia as opposed to the Southern Balkans. Whilst I could've made a stronger Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire, I decided instead to keep the Balkans balkanized. My head canon was increased Latin influence on the Balkans. This led to a larger Latin speaking population alongside a larger military presence in the region. This therefore made it more difficult for the migratory nomads to spread south of the Danube. The Dalmatic Republic, Muntenia, Thrace and Arbanon all speak Romance languages. Graecia speaks a heavily Latinized Greek language. Onuguria was in my mind a Turkic Western Ukraine influenced by later settlers (Bulgars or something similar).
Making this map so regionally close to the original map let me keep an obvious reference to it in the form of Serbia-in-Pannonia, hopefully tying the maps down the line together for longer. However it also limited my ability to reference other parts of the world or give a multitude of options to the next players. To counterbalance this, I chucked royalist terms on Muntenia and Serbia, while giving Thrace and Arbanon Illyrian and Spartacist in a thinly veiled and poorly thought out attempt to reference some extreme neo-pagan/Valkist ideology. To further complicate things I made Thrace's flag vaguely communist looking. I had a lot of fun with this map! I definitely won't say it's my best work, but I'm happy with it. I hope you all enjoy!""
Map 2: @Gokbay
(Organizer's comment: I love that you included the Kingdom of Sexland)
Map 3: @Kikkomaan
"There was a lot going on in Gokbay's map, I decided to take the idea of a Turkish empire and run with that. Basically this is a revitalized/reinstated Gokturk khaganate in the west in the 8th or 9th century, though I didn't add any dates as I wanted to leave it open to interpretation as much as possible."
After this, Kikkoman's map went to both Wings and Codae
List 1.1: "The Eastern Empire"
Map 1: @Wings
Map 2: @Selvetrica
"I received my map with a healthy looking Eastern Rome. I of course took the bait and made a Byzantium Empire map but with a twist. I took the empire and expanded it in an unorthodox direction; North!
In this world Eastern Rome straddles the border in a cold war between Monarchist and Republicans. With the Third Turkic Empire's leader itching for war, all it will take is a small push to plunge the world into its first World War. That spark will come from the small Wien Republic after their Prime Minister is killed by an Alemanian nationalist."
List 1.2: "Dutch and Russians"
Map 1: @Codae
"I was inspired by the northern neighbor of the Second Turkish Empire. All that was clear about it was that, at some uncertain time, it included Siberia and Dobruja, but lacked a big chunk of OTL's Russian heartland. Since this didn't look like a very stable shape, I interpreted it as a short-lived personal union between a Carpathian state and *Russia. But what sort of Russia would control Siberia without protecting its central/southern lands from steppe conquerors? I conceived of a loose confederation populated by the true heirs to the eponymous Rowers, pioneering the Siberian River Route before pushing into the steppe overland. But to make the Rus more influential on the Russians, it seemed natural to have more Germanic people in the east, and fewer Slavs. Concomitantly, I sent fewer Germans to the west (cf. still-Celtic Britain) and more Slavs.
As for the subject of the map itself, it came as I was thinking of the most interesting way for that personal union to fall apart. I decided that would be if the monarchy lost control of both the northern and southern ends of the realm, hanging onto a piece of the middle with no prior national identity. This would mean displacing "Russia" a bit into Europe. From there, it wasn't hard to extend the idea even further west, and for even more fun leave epigraphical remnants of those early Siberian traders at the fringes of the Sinosphere."
Map 2: @KolyenuKS
"Map of the Republic of Holland in exile, a settler colony after some dutch nationalists were exiled for rebelling against the Russian Monarchy."
Map 3: @GamerGeek
"I noticed that there was a province called New Amsterdam in Surinam which got me wondering about the real New Amsterdam, New York. So I imagined an alternate colonial North America where Russia has Canada and France has the United States - and still lost Louisiana to Spain. In French New Jersey, there's a US-style rebellion, while in New Spain, there are rebels in Yucatan and New California, both probably supported by one of Spain's rivals."
List 2: "Frankish Domain"
Map 1: @brenok
"So, my idea for the map was pretty simple - since the starting prompt featured larger Slavic nations, I decided to balance it out by making a weaker Germany, leading to the Holy Roman Empire being formed by West Francia. (This alternate HRE has the advantage of being mostly inside the territory of the actual Roman Empire ). Additionally, I wanted to leave some other areas that could be further developed on a later map, like the enlarged Navarre, Córdoba, and the England under the Danish, possibly indicating a much longer Viking age.
Overall, I don't think there's as much in depth worldbuilding for the map as I'd have liked to, but hopefully there are opportunities for another player to take it in unexpected directions.
(Also I might have misplaced or forgotten to add major cities, because I couldn't get the maps to align and was mostly eyeballing it)."
Map 2: @GBehm
"I received a map depicting a Holy Roman Empire that had seemingly originated France, with Germany already unified to the east. This HRE had, at its depicted 1250 AD height, held parts of Italy and all of the Low Countries. It made sense to me, then, that this state would likely devolve into a very loose federation as opposed to a fully-formed nation state (assuming TTL's and OTL's HREs had similar political systems). What I've chosen to depict here is western Europe, likely several hundred years after the decline of the Holy Roman Empire, and shortly after its de-facto death sometime around the late 18th or early 19th century. The Frankish Federation serves as an analogue for OTL's German Federation, with either Occitania or Greater Francia being open to interpretation in regards to which would be this world's Prussia."
Map 3: @Uebeltank
"Not my proudest work, but I got a workable end result. For this, I imagined the previous map as being France and Germany swapped from their OTL situations. Thus, the Frankish Federation would be united by the rising Greater Francia. First, the Federation would jointly invade northern Catalonia due to an Occitan presence there, but a war would then break out due to disputes between Greater Francia and Granda Occitania. This would be a massive win in favor of Francia.An alternative Franco-German war would then breakout and would lead to the Frankish Empire. And yeah, I got a bit crazy with the bordergore for this."
Map 4: @ZeSteel
"After seeing the very interesting Francian Empire that Uebeltank had made I wanted to further break up the two great Industrial powers of OTL Europe. So to do that I decided to have the UK undergo an alt *Communist/Radical Republican revolution. I thought this would open up a whole lot of new avenues for future players and it would make an interesting diversion point: How long does this republic last? Is it a one-off thing or does it inspire revolutions worldwide? Is the republic expansionist or content with its place in Europe? How does the rest of Europe develop with both England and France being shells of their OTL counterparts? What is the rump UK like? So many interesting ways for this to go."
ZeSteel's map went to both Bennett and Minnesota_Nationalist
List 2.1: "A Tale of Empires"
Map 1: @Bennett
"I got a map which showed a Populist Republic of England, as well as showing some countries across the English Channel (Frankia, containing two apparent sub-units of the Kingdom of Normandy and the Duchy of Brittany. Because of that, I decided to map out a large, dominion-based Frankish Empire, containing places in the vicinity of France (Catalonia, Holland, Sardinia, etc.). I decided, also, that since the Netherlands had such a clunky name as the "United Republic of the Dutch," that they probably splintered away in such a way as to increase nationalistic unity.
I wanted, also, to show populist revolt in the UK -- and did that through marking areas of revolt based off of the autonomous cities of the Populist Republic."
Map 2: @Vylon Disigma
(Warning: Very large map. Follow this link if it doesn't load)
"So got a map of the Frankish empire. Based on the POD, I thought, necessary to produce such a mess in Iberia as to have so many states it wasn't even worth outlining them, I had to assume that this Frankish empire had a decent chance of being the a territorial evolution of the original. with such a POD I also thought that given the early pod, the chances of Turks in Bosnia in 1880 was too similar to OTL. That was until I realized that the Byzantines often refereed to the Magyars at Turks, which must have been what Bennett's map was referencing. I set out with these three basic premises as to the situation in 1880, I planned the world and the map. The main points being; England being TTL's equivalent of Spain & Portugal albeit 100+ years later, Catholicisation of Greece and Anatolia, Islamic/Moroccan colonization of Brazil, various Asian states having autonomous cities on the north west coast of NA and north east coast of Australia, China centralised around Buddhism and a sort of general conception of shared Islamo-Christian values in Europe and Africa, basically opposed to alien Sino-Buddhist values."
Map 3: @Yanranay
Map 4: @gerhardqwe
To be continued in the following post, don't comment until then!
List 2.2: "Yet more Franks?"
Map 1: @Minnesota_Nationalist
"I received a map that, in all honesty, I'm kind of confused on when the POD is supposed to be. On the one hand, there's a United Kingdom, but on the other, the Frankish Empire is still around, so I don't even know what's going on. Anyways, it had Britain split into two from what looked like a fairly recent civil war between Republicans (maybe Socialists?) in England/Wales and Monarchists in Scotland/Ireland.
It also featured a Frankish Empire that appeared to have rather large and powerful vassals in Brittany and Normandy, possibly having Francia as Holy Roman Empire equivalent. I included Italy, Switzerland, etc. in because I felt it really needed more land to justify the Frankish Empire title. Anyways, I imagined that the Frankish Empire started to seek reform after the United Kingdom fell, but featured resistance from some of these powerful vassals, leading to a Civil War. Italian Nationalists also took their opportunity to rise up."
Map 2: @KaiserEmu
Map 3: @APeninSpace
Map 4: @Blacklister3000
"The map I got from APenInSpace include the Kingdom of Frankia and a united Dutchland. I assumed that imperialism and colonialism would prevail into the 20th century and beyond. This map shows the Treaty of Aachen in 1950, establishing the border for the two dominions, New Normandy and Ottonia respectively. A bit of background: New Normandy, founded in 1340 became a republic with a notable degree of autonomy following the Frankian Civil War, 1935. The Kingdom of Ottonia was established in 1661, but remained integrally part of Dutchland for the past three centuries. The two states remain the most economically advanced economies in the Americas, as of 2019."
List 3: "A Trip to the Middle East"
Map 1: @IcyCaspian
Map 2: @TheKutKu
"Well i noticed the large byzantine empire, so i guessed a POD could be a Manzikert, i also noticed one of the country at the south wasn't labelled so i took liberties and thought it was the Seljuk or successor, and i assumed they would go more into the caucasus if they can't go deep into Anatolia, then some Turkish general secedes Rûm sultanate-style and establish a turkish empire around the caucasus and armenian highland, pushing more Armenians into Cilicia. I also butterflied away the mongols due to the early POD. Also i guess the Turks would manage to settle the fertile georgian plains, and become a sizeable population there if the Plague killed half of the Georgians."
Map 3: @XFE
"The Kutku’s map featured a Cicilian Armenia that went on a reconquest spree far into Seljuk territory, reclaiming the Armenian highlands. I’m not especially familiar with the 13th Century Middle East, but the magnitude of the reconquest quickly made me think of Alexander the Great.
Taking the idea to its extreme and logical conclusions, we'd end up with a multiethnic Christian, Armenian empire lording a over Perso-Arabic majority. Focusing in on the Alexandrian parallels, the Armenian Empire might well meld Greek political traditions (inherited from its rule of Cilicia) and Persian cultural traditions (with well over a millenia of cultural osmosis) into one. Like Alexander before them, the Armenian Kings would style themselves as latter-day Achaemenids. However, all empires must end. There is a day that the well-oiled Armenian machine must sputter and die, and when Greek, Persian and Armenian can no longer tolerate one another...
Where to go aesthetically? My mapping style has evolved quite a bit since working on the Islamic Incas and my first Austria-wank. Notably, I chose to include elevation in this map and make good use of Paint.NET's opacity function. Choosing some comfortable colors was also fun to do, but in retrospect, I should have better planned the color coding. Then again, I have Uni applications to deal with, so whatever.
Note the Magic: the Gathering cards in the corner. To make this map stand out, I decided to include Risk/Twilight Struggle board game elements. Elevation is admittedly a weird aesthetic choice for a board game, but the rule of cool is paramount--and so it was that years after the Armenian Empire was dead and buried, an Iranian board game company would make a game depicting the Armenia's downfall.
The map is fresh out of the oven at the time of writing, and there are some hints scattered throughout the map I hope zalesky and Falkanner pick up on.
The Saoshyant bomb: a nuclear device invented by Iranian rebels
The use of Persian numerals: Perhaps Persian mathematicians have a more long-lasting cultural impact?
The abundance of provinces in the Empire's West: A sign of neglect in the East?
Mention of the Mughals: The Mughals of Babur Shah would likely have been butterflied. Might this be a Persianized Mongol Empire?
Now behold my pitiful attempt at narrative.
My Praises and My Fame
It was the 14th of April, 1916 in the Christian calendar, a beautiful day in Armenia.
His majesty, the T'agavor Thoros VII was Lord of all he surveys. He was head of House Rubenid, the supreme authority between the Karasu and Indus, King of the Armenians and Shah of all the Aryans, blessed of all three Abraham faiths, and ruler all that he surveyed. In Summer, he ruled from Ani, the city of a thousand churches, cradled high in the Armenian Highlands. In Winter, he ruled from Antioch, the greatest metropolis on the Mediterranean coast. Thoros was a latter-day Achaemenid, tolerant, civilized and kind. He was loved by all in an empire divided by religion, culture, language and ethnicity. The best and brightest of each nation were brought to the twin capitals to build cities of gold and marble.
That afternoon, Thoros was to attend the premiere of Khosrau and Shirin, the first Electric Theatreshow in the world. Part publicity stunt; part technological marvel, the theatreshow had a clear intent in capturing the friendship of Eran and Armenia.
"Father! Father!" the clamouring of his daughters swept aside Thoros' cynicism. The young princesses had been clamouring to go. The elder, Sibylla even did the impossible and promised to pay extra attention to her Farsi tutor. She also wouldn't shut up about sitting next to their handsome Chauffeur who would drive their horseless carriage to the Theatreshow, but ah well.
Just before they boarded the carriage, Sibylla stood up straight and recited in fluent Farsi,
"I've reached the end of this great history
And all the land will talk of me:
I shall not die, these seeds I've sown will save
My name and reputation from the grave,
And men of sense and wisdom will proclaim
When I have gone, my praises and my fame."
Thoros smiled as only a father would. A passage from the Shahanmeh--Sibylla's tutor deserved a raise. Her sister, Irene pouted, swore that she could do better, and their mother was soon forced to break up the argument.
Thoros chuckled and left them be, turning to the royal carriage. It was an ornate masterpiece. Hiding beneath a coat of jet black paint, it's engine growled like a chained Rubenid lion, with the chauffeur it's tamer. Thoros had always wanted a son. He'd dreamt of father and son side by side, racing on sports carriages through the outskirts of Ani like horsemen of old. This was a time of glory. This was a time for dreams.
Where the T’agavor saw Kūruš’ dream reborn, historians see an empire on the brink of collapse. The T’agavor read odes written in Rubaiyat, but did not know that the land of Fars had long suffered under the jackboot of military governors. The T’agavor read of the subjugation of the Fergana and victories against vile Mughal orientals, but did not know that Armenian logistics were built upon vile serfdom. The T'agavor read of technological marvels, but did not know that much of the empire outside Ani and Antioch remained impoverished and hungry.
A year hence, the T'agavor awoke from his dreams to see the true state of his empire. Unfortunately, that reckoning cames at the gallows, before a horde fuming dockyard serfs in the winter capital of Antioch.
It was the 14th of April, 1916 in the Christian calendar, a beautiful day in Armenia."
XFE's map went to both Falkanner and Zalezsky
List 3.1: "Century of Hayastan"
Map 1: @Falkanner
Map 2: @Fred Guo
"I am not too knowledgeable on particularly Balkans history, but the one thing that piqued my interest was the presence of the gigantic Armenian Empire. Deciding to tackle a different (and hopefully not shown yet) region instead of focusing more on a subregion shown, I added a lot more historical loose strings (i.e. Fundamentalism) that the next player can hopefully get creative about."
Map 3: @Thanosaekk
List 3.2: "A new Civilization"
Map 1: @zalezsky
Map 2: @Bicentius
"So I was given a map depicting an ancient civilization in the fertile valley, but this was in the caucuses instead of Iraq. So this left it quite open-ended for me, and I started imagining different starting points for other major civilizations. Perhaps the focus shifted away from the Mediterranean and towards the other seas in the middle east. The Black Sea, The Caspian Sea, and the Persian Gulf could all become analogues to the Med, and the opening into the Arabian Sea and bigger Indian ocean could serve as the Atlantic.
I then started focusing on civilizations to populate this new center of civilization. The Vintar in the map I received would certainly be a big player as well as some smaller names in the globe in the received map. I decided to go with three main civilizations in the Caucuses, Central Asia, and the Indian subcontinent. I then filled in the rest of the space with pseudo civilized tribes and kingdoms originating from the names on the given globe. The Arabian peninsula became a sort of Greece with multiple city-states and The mountain kingdoms in Iran and Afghanistan become a sort of Great Game between the three main powers.
Finally, to add a bit more detail and some flavor to the map, I threw in several structures, including temples (based on the given map) citadels, major cities, and for fun, some floating cities on the water. This was a really fun game and I'm really looking forward to the next iteration!"
Thanks to everyone that took part in this crazy thing, despite the curse of list 1 or the mess that updating the list was for me! I must say there are some really amazing maps here, so congrats to everyone!
For Edition 3, I want to make things simplier but also maybe introduce something new, so stay tuned for the next round!
I gave to say that of all the maps, @Bicentius ' is the most awe inspiring of them all. Great job.
I claim for Edition 3.
You'll have to claim once I make a new thread, otherwise, if everyone started claiming here, it would be a pain for me to organize everything. I'll post a link to Ed. 3 once I start it
God, XFE and Zalezsky are just flexing all over us this round
Another colonial New Normandy..
Vylon Disigma's map is breaking my laptop, its so good.
Wonderful job everyone! I love the outcome!
I have to say Serbia in Hungary surprised me some along with "Graecia" implying a Latinised Greece. I was originally thinking of making a map of global Sparticist nations ala the Comintern/Warsaw Pact but later decided to do a map of Europe. Reepicheep had not put a date on their map and neither did I but due to the style of their map I imagined the map to be modern. Latinised Greece led me to create a more Hellenic nation in Anatolia and I also decided to keep Islam limited to a smaller area. Scandinavia is a close analogue of our UK with Anglia as Ireland. Another difference to OTL is that Prussia is Baltic (and not German). Sexland I specifically added because I had recently seen several maps in the map thread with "Saxland" and such while one or two people talked about how no-one seemingly wanted to do Sexland, even though, seeing Wessex it would be where the language evolve to (probably). So I wanted to add a Sexland somewhere. The Saxon Kingdom in Europe I thought about several names (Sexland-in-Europe/Continental Sexland, Saxen, straight up Saxony) but in the end decided to go for the ethnic title for the kingdom in stead of the land title. Being a Turk, I allowed myself to add a Turkey that in my conception included Central Asia and Siberia on top of the territories seen on the map. Which in my conception would be highly Tengriist.
Anyway that being an explanation of my map I also want to say good work everyone. This was a nice experience once again.
That was truly breathtaking. The branching paths and all the different outcomes on display is really amazing. I have to say that I really like the direction list 3 went in. Definitely crazier but led to some amazing results.
I may have leaned much more into the fantasy aspect, but given that I was at the end of the line I hope it’s alright.
@XFE ‘s map is very inspiring, and I have no idea how @Vylon Disigma pulled that off in a week.
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